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Best Tank of WW2

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Zardnaar, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    In addition to thin armor, the M18's flaw was that the engine sucked in air through the open roof for cooling. In winter, this made the M18 brutally cold. The US only had to deal with one winter, the unusually bad winter of 1944-1945, but in the USSR it would have been pretty nasty.
     
  2. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    As mentioned, they were open-topped too, which would have given them 360-degree visibility but left the crew vulnerable to any fire from an elevated position.

    The Hellcats in Battle of the Bulge were used as ambushers, flying up a paved road that ran parallel to the panzer division's advance, then hitting them from a flanking position. I think Arracourt was a meeting engagement, though, and the Hellcats ripped the German Panthers a new one. iirc, the day was foggy, which may have allowed the Hellcats to close the distance before everybody spotted each other, but also prevented US aircraft from playing.

    At any rate, the US Army's armor doctrine was obsolete from the moment they came ashore, they just didn't know it yet (although their turreted TDs probably had more shelf-life than the German and Soviet casemate TDs). That they rebounded as well as they did was a feat. I think a small handful of armies still used tank destroyers after WWII, but the major countries abandoned the idea pretty fast. I think the British were the first to field an actual "universal tank", the Centurion, development of which began even before the invasion of Normandy. I don't know if Centurions saw any action before the war ended, though. The Germans were also developing the E-50 Standardpanzer (which you can see in the online game World of Tanks), which would have been their version of a universal tank. Because of the Allied bombing of their factories and the pressure on their armies in Russia, they never even got a prototype, but it still illustrates that the European armies were looking beyond the lifetime of the tank destroyer before the US Army had even gotten its boots tied.
     
  3. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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  4. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    For reference: The Tank Killers: A History of America's WWII Tank Destroyer Force, by Harry Yeide (2010) (link goes to Amazon)

    On the topic of surviving WWII vehicles, I remember reading that a Panther was found in a French family's barn in the 1990s, and that a Soviet SU tank destroyer was pulled out of a bog somewhere in Eastern Europe even more recently than that. The theory was that both were abandoned intact by their crews and then forgotten.
     
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  5. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    There's a lot of YouTube videos about various tanks being found in bogs and rivers in the former USSR.

    The German stuff is worth a lot more and they found a panther in someone's basement in Germany.

    A relatively large number of ex German stuff turned up in Bulgaria in the 90s. They had been used in static defense emplacements. Some got stolen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  6. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    I like the look of the casemate TDs, even if their useful lifespan was about 10 minutes.
     
  7. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Hetzer apparently did well for the amount if resources put into them.
     
  8. Oerdin

    Oerdin Deity

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    M26/M46 was produced from 1943-1953. Same basic tank with upgrades as time went on. It was used in the battle of the bulge.
     
  9. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    The Stug III was Germany's most useful tank with the highest kills and some of the easiest construction/maintenance/logistics
     
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  10. Phrossack

    Phrossack Armored Fish and Armored Men

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    Even if you retroactively consider the M26 an M46, only twenty arrived in Europe in time for the war, and then only in February 1945, after the end of the Battle of the Bulge.
     
  11. Oerdin

    Oerdin Deity

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    So? It was still the best tank fieldedand served in combat in WW2. The OP didn’t put a qualifier on it talking about numbers deployed. Oh, and, yes, M26/M46 series was the same basic tank just with upgrades over its service life.
     
  12. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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  13. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Well they lost 44 000 of then, another poster put in a Soviet tankers opinion vs the Sherman and in Korea they lost 2-1 vs the Sherman.

    It's a big symbol of course to the people of the USSR like the Spitfire is to the British.
     
  14. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Stuggs are generally deployed on the defensive which explains there high kill ratios, and the Germans tend to overstate tank kill.
    Apart from that its a pretty ingenious design, making use of Panzer III production
    It was also cheaper to produce then a Turret Panzer4 tank

    Not really suitable for offensive, the Germans used them of course because they had no choice and these took heavily losses when used in place of a turreted tanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  15. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    It wasn't just cost it was a way to use factories for early war lt tanks could be used to manufacture effective weapons.

    Hetzer used Czech chasis, StuG III used PzIII. They couldn't upgun them to 75mm, didn't have time to retool the factories,didn't have a command economy love me the Soviets who also had a 4-5 year head start on building tank factories.

    Germans didn't have Tankograd or the resources. It's why they they went for bigger and better if they built more tanks they couldn't fuel them anyway.

    Baku produced something like 10 or 15 times the amount of oil than the entire German fuel industry.
     
  16. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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  17. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    90mm gun I a medium tank with extra armor strapped to the front.

    Germans couldn't get an 88mm on a medium tank.

    Allies were happy to use German tech after the war but virtually nothing got carried over from Panther/Tiger design. Maybe Coppola and put high velocity AA gun in tank but all the western allies figured that out before the end of the war along with the Soviets.
     
  18. AdamCrock

    AdamCrock Polish Pudding

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    Sad to say .... Tiger was best :(

     
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  19. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Well the Germans knew that they would not be able to match the mass production of the Allies, they just went overboard in their pursuit of best and over engineering everything, multiple designs, chasing super weapons
    The other thing is if you build enough cheap Assault guns then you dont need to keep shuffling Panzer divisions everywhere burning up fuel and wearing out engine, etc
     
  20. r16

    r16 not deity

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    was just about to rant about Xenforo killing my subscription again , but then ı discovered this was a seperate thread . So , all the Western tanks since WW II are Panthers , learning and stuff , especially how it could cope with larger numbers of enemy tanks , when it could be made to move . Centurions made it to occupation duty , they might hve missed the war by weeks or even days . German casemate tanks happened , because Guderian concentrated all possible capacity for HIS panzer divisions so Mantstein , Infantry at the time , had to invent a mobile armoured gun post , which was really on the way by the end of WW I . They are cheap , they allow a larger gun for the weight of the vehicle and like when necessary to choose between Hetzers and ATGMs , which were really happening at the time , ı would say Hetzer chassis or something with a missile rack .

    and actually am like fond of this "flawed" US Anti-tank doctrine that got them disaster to disaster . Imagine what would you be personally doing in WW II , if your enemy had 200 mm armour on a 40 ton chassis and a 88/90 or even post war 105 class gun . Super fast that he can't hit you , suicide companies to attack even one single and yeah , flank attacks and stuff .
     

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