Best Use of Great Engineers?

[krc]

With the ongoing discussion about Great Scientists, I decided it would also be useful to hear opinions (or even better, gather facts) about the best use of Great Engineers.

I find it almost impossible to resist the lure of using a GE to hurry the production of a World Wonder.

When should you use a GE for a manufactory instead? Early game? Only when there is no good WW to hurry? Never?

Should you ever use a GE to hurry production of anything else, like a National Wonder?

 

[regeneration64]

90% of the time I use a GE to rush a wonder, usually World Wonders but sometimes National ones.

I'm sure someone will be able to do the maths but I guess that if you settle GE early enough you will gain more hammers from him that way than rushing an early wonder. However, there is a caveat to that - you'll likely miss out on a particular World Wonder anyway!

If there are no good wonders available at the time a GE spawns I will put him to sleep until one becomes available.

 

[Monthar]

It also depends on what VC you're going for, the level you're playing at and whether you need more production or a wonder. If in you're going for a quick domination game and the only wonders you really cared about was the GL and maybe GW, then settling it to crank out more troops faster might be a good idea. However, I'd likely use it to rush the GW to keep the AI from getting it.

 

[bpower]

Playing as Russia I planted on on top of some horses in my capital. It worked out really because I didnt have a huge amount of hammers otherwise. If you get a jungle start it might be a good idea?

 

[joncnunn]

GE: I use them 100% of the time used to rush a World Wonder.

National Wonders should be built; there's no danger in being beat out to a national wonder and losing several turns of production * like there is to hand building a world wonder.
* Yes, there is cash, but it's very low return; if you get beat out by 1 turn to Great Library, it doesn't even provide the cash value of a regular library.

 

[Browd]

The only National Wonder that I've rushed with a GE is the NC.

 

[CB Droege]

Unless there is a wonder I really need, I never use the GEs to rush anything. It just seems like a waste, when the manufactury could net so many more hammers in the long-run. I usually put them somewhere where I already had an improvement focused on production, so as not to interupt my food supply. (Note that you have to be a little careful with this, as some improvements need to have the base improvement to be most effective. Placing a manufactury (or any wonder improvement) will always get you your stuff, but it wont count toward other specials (For Example: putting a manufacturt in the hills where you found Gold still gets you the tile's production bonus, and it still gives you the Gold itself as a lux resource, but it does not still function for Mint purposes, as that only looks specificly for Gold tiles with Mines on them. It's kind of dumb, but that's how it's set up)

If you're going for a science victory (which I usually do) having manufacturies everywhere during the end-game gets your space-ship parts out much faster.

 

[joncnunn]

If you're going for a science victory (which I usually do) having manufacturies everywhere during the end-game gets your space-ship parts out much faster.

For spaceship victory construction time; I find the most important thing is all base production buildings:
(All cities that will build spaceship components will have a Solor Power Plant if desert / Nuclear Power Plant otherwise
+ Hydro Plant (when on river)
+ Factory
+ Wind Mill (when not on a hill)
One city will have built Hubble, the other one or two cities will have built Spaceship factories first.
The spaceship factory & Power Plants will be cash rushed.

 

[alpha00alpha]

With the ongoing discussion about Great Scientists, I decided it would also be useful to hear opinions (or even better, gather facts) about the best use of Great Engineers.

I find it almost impossible to resist the lure of using a GE to hurry the production of a World Wonder.

When should you use a GE for a manufactory instead? Early game? Only when there is no good WW to hurry? Never?

Should you ever use a GE to hurry production of anything else, like a National Wonder?

I always use them to hurry production for wonders, really works on those which are only available once per world.

 

[Browd]

Placing a manufactury (or any wonder improvement) will always get you your stuff, but it wont count toward other specials (For Example: putting a manufacturt in the hills where you found Gold still gets you the tile's production bonus, and it still gives you the Gold itself as a lux resource, but it does not still function for Mint purposes, as that only looks specificly for Gold tiles with Mines on them. It's kind of dumb, but that's how it's set up)

This does not work for luxuries, only strategic resources. If you plant a GP tile improvement (manufactory or other) on a luxury, you do not get the luxury. If you plant on a strategic, you get the strategic, but not the as-if-improved tile yield.

 

[tetley]

The only time I ever even paid serious thought to NOT rushing a WW with a GE was when I played the Huns with a 5-sheep start in my capital. And even then, the real issue was, I simply didn't need that many GE's. I was wide and I had Chichen Itza: I needed GA's.

 

[akashsara]

I always use them to rush WWs. I save some of them for WWs that the AI prioritizes(Alhambra, Chichen Itza etc)

 

[Monthar]

Playing as Russia I planted on on top of some horses in my capital. It worked out really because I didnt have a huge amount of hammers otherwise. If you get a jungle start it might be a good idea?

Just like with Academies, it would be better to plant thing on wheat or cows, so not only does it feed itself but also provides at least half the food for another citizen. However, if planting on horses, after animal husbandry, cows or sheep, make sure you have either already put up the pasture and built a stables or that you have another source of cows, sheep or horses in that city. Otherwise you cost yourself 1 production from that tile.

Also, never put a manufactory on a hill that can be mined, because you get almost as much production from the mines themselves once you have all the bonuses to mines unlocked.

 

[Sidor1982]

I use them for crucial wonders only. Early game - Petra (if the AI has the option to build it) or Hanging Gardens, middle game - Porcelain Tower, late game - Hubble. Other than that I settle the engineers.
Of course as others have pointed it out it depends much on the strategy you're going for. Diplo - rush UN, Culture - rush Sistine Chapel, Christo Redentor and Sydney Opera, Military - better settle than rush (although Himeji Castle or Great Wall may be options if available at the moment).

 

[cmorganuk]

I only ever have a GE if I finish liberty, I can't remember the last time I actually generated one myself. Waste of a scientist if you ask me.

 

[regeneration64]

I only ever have a GE if I finish liberty, I can't remember the last time I actually generated one myself. Waste of a scientist if you ask me.

I find them relatively hard to generate in the early to mid-game but late-game you can afford to fill most of those specialist slots and have alot of bonuses so can get a lot of GEs out for those high-cost late-game wonders!

 

[Bandobras Took]

I only ever have a GE if I finish liberty, I can't remember the last time I actually generated one myself. Waste of a scientist if you ask me.

Some people like to play a game that favors production over research. Not claiming it's that mythical "optimal" play that people like to talk about, but there it is.

 

[steveg700]

GE: I use them 100% of the time used to rush a World Wonder.

National Wonders should be built; there's no danger in being beat out to a national wonder and losing several turns of production * like there is to hand building a world wonder.
* Yes, there is cash, but it's very low return; if you get beat out by 1 turn to Great Library, it doesn't even provide the cash value of a regular library.

The problem with national wonders is that building them stifles your growth, because you can't settle while you're building them. And the cost scales with the number of cities you have, so it can be pretty high in some games.

Having said that, I usually prefer WW's.

 

[Matthew.]

The national wonders scale so they will always be a "wonder investment" no matter when you build them. Although in ICS-style games the number of cities can outpace the number of hammers in developed cities. Which sucks.

I wonder though (heh... get it? wonder? ... ok bad joke ) there may be some benefit to a super hammer city full of planted engineers. You miss out on sniping some of the early wonders, but the amount of turns saved on anything trained/built including late-game wonders could be worth it.

I've been meaning to test it out, but haven't got around to it yet. The idea would be a domination-oriented game and working scientist/engineer slots equally to pop both at once, so as not to completely give up great scientists.

 

[Halcyan2]

Depends on the difficulty level. On easier levels, I can get the wonders without hurrying, so I would prefer to settle them.

Main reasons why I will rush a wonder is if:

- I want a wonder in a city that is *not* my capital and it simply isn't well developed. Most often this is the case for a non-capital Petra, but also occasionally for coastal or mountainous cities that I am late to found.

- In Science/Diplomacy games, I may need to rush Porcelain Tower to time it with RA's.

- If I am trying to finish a game quickly, I will save GE's to rush late game wonders which I won't have enough turns to build manually.



Settling GE's into manufactories is especially helpful when:

- I plan to go Freedom (double hammers)

- I am Korea (science from manufactories)

- I am going tall and/or my city has very few available hammers based on the terrain