Bestiality and Ethics

[Mulholland]

I found this interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/Research#Psychological_profile_of_zoophiles

Kinsey et al, 1948 (male sexuality)

Study of 5300 white American males:

8% have had zoosexual experience, however in general "few times" in a lifetime. Largely confined to farm youths, 50% (some areas 65%) of whom have experience. Actual values likely to be underestimated due to suggestions of reticence or "cover-up". 1/3 of these had their first experience by age 9, percentages drop to 1 - 4 % by 20's, suggestive of impact of social taboos leading to cessation and denial. The highest proportion in late teenages was amongst intelligent and educated rural youths. 28% had zoosexual experience (vaginal, anal or oral activity to orgasm) prior to to age 15, dropping to 17% between ages 16-20. Urban youths have far fewer contacts (estimated 1 for every 30 - 70 that rural youths had), and mostly when visiting rural areas, leading to suggestions that they would have a similar norm save for reduced possibilities.

Kinsey noted that "In most cases, the contacts with animals last for two or three years, although there are contacts that extend over several years, or even throughout a lifetime."[2]

 

[Stylesjl]

Unfortunately when I think of this issue I can only think of my subjective emotion of disgust. However objectively speaking Eran is quite correct, it is no worse then killing them/experimentation and other nasty cruelties

So I say the issue should probaly be left alone

 

[Phlegmak]

Well, I am not saying that one "must" recognize as moral acts such as bestiality. I am just saying, as long as one admits that it is inconsistent, or whatever, the go for it.

And minors have more laws protecting them than do animals. I mean, last time I killed and ate my neighbor's baby, you never heard such whining!



Do you see the problems this raises? Where and how do we draw the line?

I do indeed see the problems this raises. It's impossible to know where to draw the line. I've contemplated that myself. I have no easy answers.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yeah, such is life, I guess.

And I should point out that I probably find the "ick" factor much higher than most people. My reaction to a picture in another thread of a horse and an attractive woman was to be grossed out. But then, my squeamishness is no basis for a system of sexual ethics.

 

[Nick Garai]

The purpose for sex is ultimately reproduction. Men do not reproduce with men and women with women. Animals and humans cannot create offspring and if a way was ever found to do this, the bastard life is better off killed.

If it isn't consensual, it is rape. An animal is something we eat, use for labor, watch for entertainment.

It is not just ethically and morally wrong (let alone gross) but why would someone want to exchange a natural relationship with a human male/female with an animal? The point ultimately for any sexual encounter in our hard wiring is for reproduction.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, see, that's kind of the thing. You are, in essense, saying that all non-hetero-normative (kind of hate the term, but it works) sex is morally wrong. Thus, it is consistent for you to be opposed to bestiality. But were you to say that certain other activities were acceptable, you would need another argument to show why bestiality is wrong.

 

[IglooDame]

Yeah, such is life, I guess.

And I should point out that I probably find the "ick" factor much higher than most people. My reaction to a picture in another thread of a horse and an attractive woman was to be grossed out. But then, my squeamishness is no basis for a system of sexual ethics.

Quoted and bolded for emphasis.

 

[Nick Garai]

The argument why bestiality is wrong:

(a) Forbidden by God
(b) Cannot ultimately reproduce with animals
(c) Diseases/illnesses can be transmitted to people that do not affect animals
(d) We are to have, according to God's commands, have dominion over animals - not sexual conquests

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So you are saying that it is wrong because God forbids it.

In point of fact, that is why I think it is wrong as well; however, there are a lot of posters here who do not believe that God has forbidden any sexual acts, but who nonetheless see bestiality as wrong.

 

[GinandTonic]

So you are saying that it is wrong because God forbids it.

In point of fact, that is why I think it is wrong as well; however, there are a lot of posters here who do not believe that God has forbidden any sexual acts, but who nonetheless see bestiality as wrong.

Well if you believe in a religous dogma ethics is a book you need never open. If you do not believe in a dogma you must defend your ethical position. Take responsibility for your ethical position since it is a position you chose.

 

[IglooDame]

The argument why bestiality is wrong:

(a) Forbidden by God
(b) Cannot ultimately reproduce with animals
(c) Diseases/illnesses can be transmitted to people that do not affect animals
(d) We are to have, according to God's commands, have dominion over animals - not sexual conquests

(a) and (d) are redundant, (b) is effectively the same as (a) and (d), and (c) is nonsensical as written.

Now please explain to an atheist why it is wrong.

 

[Brighteye]

The reason for these apparent contradictions is that morality isn't absolute.

Why not? I think it is.

...a lot of the same people will say that bestiality is immoral, as the animal involved does not consent to the act.

I think that it is clearly distinct from rape and pedophilia, in which a human is coerced - humans will suffer not just phycially but psychologically as a result of the act, and most ethical systems differentiate between humans and other animals that are said to lack self-awareness.

And as a result of this, most people are willing to do nonconsensual things to animals that they wouldn't to to humans - such as killing and eating them. I do not see how it is any worse for an animal to have sex with a human, albeit nonconsentually, than to be killed and eaten.
...
So, discuss. Is there an argument that bestiality is ethically wrong, other than those that stem from an individual's sexual morality? (Such as mine; I should point out that I myself find it immoral.)

The animal has not consented to being governed by morality, and therefore has no rights not to be sodomised or raped by a human.
Animals do have self-awareness, but just not the understanding to consent to morality.
Kill and eat them, have sex with them, use them for weight-lifting: as long as you own them, it's not a problem.
Morality can only stem from an individual's opinions. That's the only way morality can govern a person. So your final question is doomed not to find a good answer.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well if you believe in a religous dogma ethics is a book you need never open. If you do not believe in a dogma you must defend your ethical position. Take responsibility for your ethical position since it is a position you chose.

You obviously don't understand the basis of my personal ethics, then. What I believe to be right and wrong is not determined entirely by my religion (which in turn is more than just a book), and I believe that ethics, and morality, as I define the, are different things.

 

[Nick Garai]

Check out a girl who walks with a nice shifting of those butt cheeks raising and loweing in that hypnotic rythm.

Now check out an animals ass?

MMMmmmmm.... Attractive.

 

[IglooDame]

Check out a girl who walks with a nice shifting of those butt cheeks raising and loweing in that hypnotic rythm.

Now check out an animals ass?

MMMmmmmm.... Attractive.

The classic 'icky=wrong' argument, eh?

 

[Sidhe]

So you are saying that it is wrong because God forbids it.

In point of fact, that is why I think it is wrong as well; however, there are a lot of posters here who do not believe that God has forbidden any sexual acts, but who nonetheless see bestiality as wrong.

IMO the secular moral reasons outweight the religious ones.

 

[Pyrite]

Nick...Gold told ME it was right to rape animals. Which of us is right?

 

[Nick Garai]

Can God make a rock so heavy He cannot lift it?

That kind of argument is not a logical one. God wouldn't command anyone to have sex with an animal when He forbids that kind of act. If you did recieve it from God, which God is it?

 

[GinandTonic]

Nick...Gold told ME it was right to rape animals. Which of us is right?

Fools gold Pyrite?

 

[Pyrite]

Maybe i'm just a misspelled pirate.