Beta Version - January 6th (1/6)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

Beta test inbound. Some bugfixes, but mainly balance.

Fixes/Improvements:

• Worked a bit more on some AI building logic
• Fixed for path/unit/plot elements (ilteroi)
• Bugfixes re: things on github
• MP bugfixes and lua tweaks for testing denounce function (still EUI only for now) (Lynnes and co., please check these changes and get back to me)
• Fixed holysite tooltip shenanigans
• Writers and Scientists now have their 'pop' values set at birth, instead of scaling while they exist (i.e., you can't effectively hoard them anymore) (CP)
• Historic Event bonus from global CS events now only gained once per turn (instead of once per CS with that quest going on) (CBP)
• Some QoL additions/fixes, and some text clarifications
• Fixed bug in culture notification system that was causing it to fail (i.e. you should now get annoucements when your culture level changes, and other levels change over you).

Balance:

• Happiness values increase more sharply in the mid-late game
• Switched +1 Gold from resources on Tabya to +2 Production
• Buffed Burial tomb base yields (now +3 faith, +2 Production)
• Yield bonus on Ivory from Circus now +3 Culture (was +3 Gold)
• Bank Yield for resources now +3 (Was +2)
• Forge and Stone Works lose base +1 Production - Forge now grants +2 Production to Iron and Copper (was +1)
• Amphitheater/Acropolis now improves Silk as well - +2 Culture to Silk, Dye, and Lapis (for More Luxuries)
• Caravansary/Burial Tomb: Truffles now 2 Gold, Cotton 1 Production 1 Culture, and Furs 1 Gold 1 Production
• Market/Bazaar: Spices now +1 Food +1 Production, Sugar now +1 Food +1 Gold

Improvement yields replaces for a few resources:

• Coral and Pearls now generate +1 Culture from Fishing Boats instead of gold
• Ivory and Bison gain +1 Production

Leaders:

• Hunnic UA: Now Plains and Grasslands (was just Plains)
• Arabian UA rework (still in balancing/testing): When you complete a Historic Event, your Capital gains +3 Tourism and Culture, and +100 points (scaling with Era) towards a random Great Person. Tourism from Historic Events increased by 20%.
• Persian UA addition: 10% of Tourism added to GAP per turn.

Aesthetics modified slightly:

• Humanism: Amphitheaters, Opera Houses, Museums, and Broadcast Towers produce +3 Science. All Great Works produce +1 Gold and +1 Culture.
• Refinement: All positive Happiness is added to your Empire-wide Culture rate. +1 Happiness and +3 Culture from all Guilds.
• National Treasure: A Great Person of your choice appears near your Capital. Entering a Golden Age or completing an Archaeological Dig generates Tourism with all known Civilizations (based on your Culture output).
• Heritage: All World Wonders produce +2 Tourism. +3 Culture from Great Person Improvements.
• Cultural Exchange: Increases the Tourism modifier for shared religion, trade routes, and open borders by 25% each. The empire immediately enters a Golden Age.

Some things need testing/analysis. That's where you come in!

Files affected: CP, CBP, Compatibility files, and EUI.

Not savegame compatible. If using all files, delete CP and CBP lua folders. Clear cache!

Download Link for Beta

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[Atlas627]

Looks cool! I'll give it a try right now!

I'm glad that the Arabian UA got changed. It wasn't that it seemed wrong or anything, I just didn't want to play with it. I like the new one, but I don't see how its remotely Arabian. I'm also not sure how that meshes with the rest of their gameplay. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Edit: The heck is this UI_bc1.zip? Is that EUI? Ew, gross.

 

[Gokudo01]

Looks cool! I'll give it a try right now!

I'm glad that the Arabian UA got changed. It wasn't that it seemed wrong or anything, I just didn't want to play with it. I like the new one, but I don't see how its remotely Arabian. I'm also not sure how that meshes with the rest of their gameplay. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Edit: The heck is this UI_bc1.zip? Is that EUI? Ew, gross.

Yes I think it's EUI
Go into "whereIputCiv5"/Asset/DLC and past the new folder

 

[Gazebo]

Looks cool! I'll give it a try right now!

I'm glad that the Arabian UA got changed. It wasn't that it seemed wrong or anything, I just didn't want to play with it. I like the new one, but I don't see how its remotely Arabian. I'm also not sure how that meshes with the rest of their gameplay. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Edit: The heck is this UI_bc1.zip? Is that EUI? Ew, gross.

It's heavily themed in-game around 'One Thousand and One Nights.' Notifications etc. all tie into this. More events = more 'tales.'

G

 

[Atlas627]

It's heavily themed in-game around 'One Thousand and One Nights.' Notifications etc. all tie into this. More events = more 'tales.'

G

Ooooh, that's clever! Here's hoping it creates fun and balanced gameplay patterns too

 

[Tnin]

Are New Version and Beta Version different? What do I do? 0.o

 

[Gokudo01]

First bug

Discipline(Authority) doesn't provide any culture yield if the city isn't the capital. Although it works with the happiness part, it doesn't provide any culture on your other cities.

 

[Funak]

Hunnic UA: Now Plains and Grasslands (was just Plains)

That seems wrong.

Arabian UA rework (still in balancing/testing): When you complete a Historic Event, your Capital gains +3 Tourism and Culture, and +100 points (scaling with Era) towards a random Great Person. Tourism from Historic Events increased by 20%.

This looks slightly watered down to the point of not sounding as interesting anyway. It probably needed the reduction, but it looks a lot less appealing. Might have to go back to the drawing-board.



By the way, was it possible to make furs only spawn in forest/(jungle?).

 

[Ymir9]

Sadly, this latest update does not seem to resolve the issue with water-walking units.

Reinserting the impassable tags for coast and ocean in saneTerrain.sql seems to solve the issue with winged hussars displacing units into water, but then workboats and units cannot enter/embark into coastal tiles. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Funak]

Okay, after testing the new build out (in what I assume was a broken game somehow, as none of the yield-changes were present) the Arabian UA spiraled out of control pretty quickly and I won a tourism-victory before the other civs got a chance to get their culture up (around turn 150 standard speed). I was quite lucky with getting a lot of easy city-state quests and good GP-point distribution (No idea what controls that), the GPs rolled off each-other triggering the next GP and sometimes landing me 5 events in one turn.


UPDATE: Finally got the yields to work, really sad you only changed the buildings, not the tiles and the improvements like I suggested.

UPDATE2: Won a second Tourism victory 70 turns in.

 

[Gokudo01]

First bug

Discipline(Authority) doesn't provide any culture yield if the city isn't the capital. Although it works with the happiness part, it doesn't provide any culture on your other cities.

I doublechecked it, and I still get the bug. + 3 from social policies in the capital.
nothing in the other cities and it's not counted in the global culture.

 

[Myrrdin_Emrys]

Is there any list about what is a historical event ?

I wanted to play a cultural based civ, with this new beta, i'm sure i'll do it

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Liking most changes except Arabia. It is definitely not balanced right now (and wasn't before either), I mean 100 points is pretty much a great person itself and historic events are way too frequent for such bonuses right now even without help of bonus GPs from UA. All you need to do is go Tradition and historic event happens one after another thanks to your GP generation.
Right now Arabia will almost always outclass the Mayan UA in every way.

And I don't know why would Arabia be so tourism focused? I'd understand USA, France, England, Japan, China, but Arabia? Great Person UA focus also doesn't fit them much, especially not one that big.


I also really don't like how the UA sort of propels itself. You get an Historical Event so you (soon/almost) get a GP, so you get a HE, so you get a GP, so you get a HE. It's too easy and neverending, especially if you go Tradition. Once it starts going Arabia is effectively out of control.
It's not even "synergy", it's more like a broken cycle that continues itself if you've got any GP creating cities.

My suggestion? Well, if they have to be tourism/gp based I suppose bonus tourism/culture/gp generation for them for every foreign civ/city sharing their majority/founded religion. Fits historically and makes sense. If the UA has to stay as is, the numbers need huge reductions if the civ is to be balanced. Maybe like 10 per historical event and 1 c/t in your capital? That's still going to be absolutely crazy on big maps with lots of CS, especially for a Tradition-going Arabia which will get like 10+ HEs per era, more if they get good wonders or if their nearby CS's are particularly needy.

Or maybe GP birth and helping a CS shouldn't be a historical event, but that'd break tourism victory for everyone else so it doesn't seem like a good solution.

Is there any list about what is a historical event ?

I wanted to play a cultural based civ, with this new beta, i'm sure i'll do it

IIRC Great Person birth, wonder construction for sure, finishing a CS mission. I think getting a Golden Age qualifies too but I'm not sure about that.

I also remember HE's appearing when going to the next era and completely finishing a social policy but it could've been a coincidence as I often get GP's around that time so I cannot be certain.

 

[hokath]

Arabian UA rework (still in balancing/testing)

the UA sort of propels itself

I don't think this can be balanced when the double-dipping Enrico describes exists.

1001 nights is a pretty cool idea to theme this otherwise oddball UA.
I would drop the Culture, keep the Tourism. Change Great Person interaction to "+2% Great Person Rate in all cities per Historic Event." (or more % and only on the capital if you want to promote that tall style). I think it will work well because it is similar to Austria, which scales in a fun way that makes you feel more powerful.

Is there any list about what is a historical event ?

Check the Palace tooltip

 

[Funak]

Liking most changes except Arabia. It is definitely not balanced right now (and wasn't before either), I mean 100 points is pretty much a great person itself and historic events are way too frequent for such bonuses right now even without help of bonus GPs from UA. All you need to do is go Tradition and historic event happens one after another thanks to your GP generation.
Right now Arabia will almost always outclass the Mayan UA in every way.

The big difference is that the Arabian GP counts as a GP birthed for the sake of increasing costs, making the Arabian UA a lot stronger early on, but weaker in the long run (the Mayan GP is always worth enough GP-points to build your last GP spawned, making it really strong).
You also have no control over which GP you're spawning (I mean in my last game I don't think I got one event that didn't give great diplomat points, I spawned 2 great diplomats in 70 turns without working one civil servant)

I do completely agree that the UA isn't working really well right now, however.

And I don't know why would Arabia be so tourism focused? I'd understand USA, France, England, Japan, China, but Arabia? Great Person UA focus also doesn't fit them much, especially not one that big.

There was a big discussion-thread going on about this and you missed it. Eventually everyone just agreed with Gazebo's "Thousand and one nights" themed UA.

I also really don't like how the UA sort of propels itself. You get an Historical Event so you (soon/almost) get a GP, so you get a HE, so you get a GP, so you get a HE. It's too easy and neverending, especially if you go Tradition. Once it starts going Arabia is effectively out of control.
It's not even "synergy", it's more like a broken cycle that continues itself if you've got any GP creating cities.

I think the main problem is that the UA just starts out too strong, with all those flat numbers I really doubt it will do well in the mid to late game.

My suggestion? Well, if they have to be tourism/gp based I suppose bonus tourism/culture/gp generation for them for every foreign civ/city sharing their majority/founded religion. Fits historically and makes sense. If the UA has to stay as is, the numbers need huge reductions if the civ is to be balanced. Maybe like 10 per historical event and 1 c/t in your capital? That's still going to be absolutely crazy on big maps with lots of CS, especially for a Tradition-going Arabia which will get like 10+ HEs per era, more if they get good wonders or if their nearby CS's are particularly needy.

G didn't want another religious or another trade-based civ.

On the topic of City-state quests, there are actually really few of them that actually trigger HE, I think I managed to complete 2 HE-triggering quests total in my two games. Both of them was killing barb-camps.

Or maybe GP birth and helping a CS shouldn't be a historical event, but that'd break tourism victory for everyone else so it doesn't seem like a good solution.

By the way this is going to be really confusing for everyone involved. It would be better if you kept suggestions in the related Leader-thread in the leader subforum. Complaints about things working weirdly, and general reports about broken things here is fine, but actual suggestions should be kept in the leader forum.

 

[Tubbilicious]

I doublechecked it, and I still get the bug. + 3 from social policies in the capital.
nothing in the other cities and it's not counted in the global culture.

I have a similar bug. The culture from this policy is working for me, however the in-city display shows simply two culture being generated, rather than 3. However the global culture states 3.

 

[Gazebo]

Thanks for reports, all, I appreciate the feedback. I have a pretty lengthy checklist I move through, but obviously some things (mainly deeper interactions between systems) I rely on my beta-testers for.

I would drop the Culture, keep the Tourism. Change Great Person interaction to "+2% Great Person Rate in all cities per Historic Event." (or more % and only on the capital if you want to promote that tall style). I think it will work well because it is similar to Austria, which scales in a fun way that makes you feel more powerful.

The flat Tourism is, right now, the problem. I saw it happen to the AI once (Arabia culture victory @ Turn 150 with +5/+5 bonus), but not at +3/+3. Funak was probably on Pangea for @ 70 victory, which needs to be accounted for.

Could leave it +3 Culture, and make it +3 Science. Science fits well into the 'Islamic Golden Age' theme, and the +3 Culture feeds into the Historic Event info.

Also, for those of you asking about Historic Events, there is a civilopedia article on it (if in doubt, guys, use the civpedia search bar).

UPDATE: Finally got the yields to work, really sad you only changed the buildings, not the tiles and the improvements like I suggested.

New version was already in release phase when you posted. Also, I need feedback on your idea from others, as I'd rather just make the change once.

Liking most changes except Arabia. It is definitely not balanced right now (and wasn't before either), I mean 100 points is pretty much a great person itself and historic events are way too frequent for such bonuses right now even without help of bonus GPs from UA. All you need to do is go Tradition and historic event happens one after another thanks to your GP generation.

Keyword is 'random.' The GP points aren't guaranteed to go into the same GP slot every time.

By the way, was it possible to make furs only spawn in forest/(jungle?).

Not without editing the resourcegenerator.lua (so no).

Reinserting the impassable tags for coast and ocean in saneTerrain.sql seems to solve the issue with winged hussars displacing units into water, but then workboats and units cannot enter/embark into coastal tiles. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Ilteroi is notified. Pictures/saves for him on the beta version would be useful for debugging (post on github, please).

G

 

[Funak]

The flat Tourism is, right now, the problem. I saw it happen to the AI once (Arabia culture victory @ Turn 150 with +5/+5 bonus), but not at +3/+3. Funak was probably on Pangea for @ 70 victory, which needs to be accounted for.

It was easily repeatable as well, I raised the difficulty to deity and still would have gotten a tourism-victory around turn 70, but one civ spawned on an island and I never found him . I had all other civs on Dominant by the time I gave up on the game 120 turns in.

Could leave it +3 Culture, and make it +3 Science. Science fits well into the 'Islamic Golden Age' theme, and the +3 Culture feeds into the Historic Event info.

Science could work, so could just raising the flat culture gained and lower the tourism. This would lead to a rather rapid powerdrop around the midgame when the flat culture stops being impressive. But that's probably fine.

To counteract early snowballing, perhaps the GPP gained could be lowered slightly and made scale with era?

New version was already in release phase when you posted. Also, I need feedback on your idea from others, as I'd rather just make the change once.

You're off the hook this time

Not without editing the resourcegenerator.lua (so no).

Annoying, guess something else could be done.

Would it be possible for a tech to add yields to camps without forest/jungle? Kinda like there are techs adding yields to improvement with or without freshwater access.

 

[Atlas627]

Started a game as the Mayans. Had the Mayan calendar instead of normal dates from turn 0 (I like that). Got free GPs due to UA long before I researched Mathematics though...

 

[Gazebo]

Started a game as the Mayans. Had the Mayan calendar instead of normal dates from turn 0 (I like that). Got free GPs due to UA long before I researched Mathematics though...

Using any other mods?
G