Beyond the surface of history myths

[Paideia]

Sorry for barging in on this forum. I don't know, if this has already been discussed, but here goes..

A guy in the BtS forum mentioned (in discussing Abe Lincoln as the new leader for America), that he didn't actually free all the slaves in America, but merely the ones in Confederate territory. The actual abolition of slavery was achieved by the 13th amendment. Now, I may already have known this, but it certainly wasn't present in my mind, because in popular history it's much more often said that Lincoln freed the slaves.

This reminded me of certain Danish myths. Firstly the entirely fabricated myth of King Christian X riding around Copenhagen during the occupation with a star of David on his sleeve and then the story of the rescuing of the Danish jews to Sweden, which was later found to have been conducted to a large extent with the knowledge of the Germans.

The really interesting thing, though, is that people living in the countries/cultures of these myths are almost always aware of the "inaccuracies" (it was indeed an American who pointed out the fact about Lincoln), so it can hardly be national pride that keeps these stories going.
Is it simply, that we like a good story and will keep retelling it or are there other factors at play?

Feel free to add any of your own myths too. I would love to have my preconceived notions of other historical acts deflated..

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, the evacuation of the Danish Jews was done with the knowledge of the Germans who were in charge of the occupation, but if Hitler or even a lot of Germans in Germany had known about it it couldn't have happened.

And the Emancipation Proclamation was a military decision, but it basically worked by implying that any European powers that were going to recognize the Confederacy would be implicitly supporting slavery. It also made full emancipation pretty much inevitable.

 

[Nylan]

People like a good pick-me-up story

Some Brits believe King Arthur came back from the dead and his hoofbeats could be heard during the German bombing runs over London in WWI.

 

[Conroe]

A guy in the BtS forum mentioned (in discussing Abe Lincoln as the new leader for America), that he didn't actually free all the slaves in America, but merely the ones in Confederate territory. The actual abolition of slavery was achieved by the 13th amendment.

I think that is a technicality myself. It is true that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all of the slaves. But your statement implies that President Lincoln had nothing to do with the 13th Amendment. And that is simply not true. The 13th Amendment came about because of the Emancipation Proclamation and, indeed, because of Lincoln's Presidency.

So, is President Lincoln solely responsible for ending the institution of slavery? Technically no. Would slavery have been abolished in 1865 if Lincoln had not been elected President in 1860? My guess is no.

And I believe that is why history credits, quite correctly, President Lincoln with the abolition of slavery here in the US.

 

[Plotinus]

Some of the most pervasive myths concern religion. Many people still believe that the church taught that the earth is flat in the Middle Ages; that the church tried to suppress science in early modern times, by persecuting heliocentrists; that the church burned millions of witches in the Middle Ages; that Christianity as we know it is an invention of the emperor Constantine, who suppressed lots of books out of the New Testament that told the truth about Jesus; etc etc etc. The reason people believe such myths today is similar to the reason they believe the ones mentioned in the OP: it is useful (in a broad sense of the word) for them to do so, because they confirm their own prejudices.

 

[bob bobato]

Some of the most pervasive myths concern religion. Many people still believe that the church taught that the earth is flat in the Middle Ages; that the church tried to suppress science in early modern times, by persecuting heliocentrists; that the church burned millions of witches in the Middle Ages

I agree with you, but with a few differences. The church didn't try to suppress science, just the ideas that were against their beliefs. So they did suppress science, in that sense. And the church didn't burn millions of witches. But someone did (but not millions), and many of them were related to the church. So in a way, saying 'The church burned witches' is a bit like saying 'The Jews killed Jesus'. Technically true, but not as a whole group, just some members of it.

 

[Plotinus]

Yes, but there's a big difference between saying "Some Christians burned some tens of thousands of supposed witches in early modern times," and "The church burned millions of witches in the Middle Ages." And there's a big difference between saying "Some church leaders rejected certain scientific ideas and promoted the attempt to disprove them," and "The church attempted to suppress all scientific investigation." The point is that what is popularly believed isn't true, even though it may have some vague similarity to the truth. Just like saying "Abraham Lincoln emancipated the slaves" isn't true, although it has some vague similarity to what actually happened.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Indeed, I heard so many times that Columbus demonstrated that the world was round. I will give him credit for discovering the New World, without putting the word discover in quotes, but everyone knew it was round. He got really lucky, he would have died at sea if not for the continent in the way.

 

[Plotinus]

In fact, Columbus was wrong. He argued that the world was smaller than everyone thought it was, which is why he thought it was possible to sail west and reach China. Everyone else thought that the world was far too big to do that. And they were right. As you say, if America hadn't happened to be in the way, Columbus would have died long before he got to China.

 

[Catharsis]

A lot of people seem to think the British invented concentration camps. 'Twas the Spanish, of course.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, "concentration camp" as the British used the term would turn out to be something quite different from the euphemistically-dubbed German version.

 

[Evie]

Saying "some Christians" is rather misleading too, I'd say - it tends to leave one to think the Church(es) played no part in those Witch Trials, which is inaccurate too. The Church did play an important part in those trials (though more akin to that of police investigators than to the role of prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner public perception often give them in the Witch Trials) where she had any authority.

It is however true that by and large sentencing to death and execution took place under secular law, and was carried out by lay executioners.

Completely agreed on the amounts concerned and the era concerned, though. Witch Trials were a fad of the renaissance onward, not the Middle Ages.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

"Some" churches played a role. To the best of my knowledge, say, the Nestorians weren't into that a lot, nor the Amish, or what have you. There has not been a "Christian Church" for some time.

 

[Evie]

Generally - at least up here in Québec - when people use "the Church" (capital C) (or L'Église/capital &#201 without any other designator in reference to Christianism there is an implicit "Roman Catholic" in there. I never really wondered or noted whether the usage was local, Catholic/Ex-Catholic-only or global. If it caused any confusion, my apologies.

My reference to "The Church" was strictly about the Roman Catholic Church, as they're the only one whose actual role in witch trials I would trust myself to discuss (I know the protestant countries ran witch trials as happily as their catholic brethren ; I'm however not well-versed in what exact role (if any) the priestly type of those religions played in such trials.

The (es) bit was added to cover any stray church I might not know of where the priestly type played essentialy the same role as among the Catholics with regard to witch trials.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, when people refer to "the Church" they generally mean either the Roman Catholic Church or Christianity in general; such as the Protestants behind Salem, being referred to as the Church. It is very sloppy usage on some people's part, but apparently it gets even worse; in some places, "Christian" basically means Protestant, and so Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. are not grouped with "Christians".

 

[Evie]

In any event - I refered to primarily to the R-Cath Church, with the (es) being added in case any other church fell under the description I gave.

 

[1889]

My favorite myth is that France was not really very important in our revolution and that the US entered WWII to save them.

I remember some reporter interviewing the French ambasador or something during the lead up to Gulf War II and he got all pissed that France wouldn't do what we say. Vissably miffed he leans over the table and asks her if she appreciates what we did for them durring WWII.

Man, I wish I could remember his name.

 

[Plotinus]

In fact, the Protestant churches executed more witches than the Catholics did. The Roman Catholic Church was never very interested in witch-hunting (even though it was largely responsible for the redefinition of witches, in the 1486 Malleus maleficarum, as people in league with Satan). The reasons for this are complex and debated. One them may well be the fact that, during this period, Protestants placed more value on the spiritual abilities of women than Catholics did. The vast majority of accused "witches" were women (except in Russia), and it seems that the Catholic inquisitors tended to be very lenient partly because they didn't think women had the ability to form alliances with the devil and perform black magic.

That's another aspect of the myth - people always assume the Catholics were the big baddies in the witch hunts. That's why I said "some Christians" instead of "the church".

Another rather ironic aspect to the myth is that the people who are most worked up about the witch hunts today are neo-pagans, who assume (without much justification) that the victims of the witch hunts were pagans, and see them as part of Christianity's brutal clampdown on pagan religions. In fact, of course, the Christian witch hunts of early modern times pale in comparison to the witch hunts of antiquity, which were carried out by pagans.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

One quite recent and persistent myth is the story of Romans salting the earth of Carthage (very unlikely).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salting_the_earth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage#Roman_Carthage

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Sorry for barging in on this forum. I don't know, if this has already been discussed, but here goes..

A guy in the BtS forum mentioned (in discussing Abe Lincoln as the new leader for America), that he didn't actually free all the slaves in America, but merely the ones in Confederate territory. The actual abolition of slavery was achieved by the 13th amendment. Now, I may already have known this, but it certainly wasn't present in my mind, because in popular history it's much more often said that Lincoln freed the slaves.

You have it exactly backwards. The Emancipation Proclamation applied to all slaves in the United States but was unenforceable in the Confederate states due to the state of war. It was meant more as a demoralizing effort against the Confederacy than a law, since the 13th ammendment was later enacted. So it only practically applied to the few slave-holding states left in the Union, which were Tennessee, Missouri, and Kentucky. I suspect they didn't have much slaves as it was for I don't recall much protest.