[Beyond the Sword] History In The Making

[Vince_2000]

Thank you Azzer ! that was the solution !

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Grave: Quick little point, since someone new was asking me about your mod, I just noticed that your INTERIM FIX #2 UNTIL PATCH v1.04: (in post #2 of this thread) doesn't actually take you to the right post....(#771 is the right post, but clicking the link takes me to JunitReligion fix)

 

[Grave]

Grave: Quick little point, since someone new was asking me about your mod, I just noticed that your INTERIM FIX #2 UNTIL PATCH v1.04: (in post #2 of this thread) doesn't actually take you to the right post....(#771 is the right post, but clicking the link takes me to JunitReligion fix)

Well that was pretty gay.

The URL pointed to Post #771, but the hyperlink didn't link to it. It should be fixed now, I just removed the URL tag and re-posted it.

Thanks for pointing it out!


Now.... onto Traits... it was mentioned that Cunning is a little weak in the knees. I was thinking of upping the Espionage points to +25% instead of 10%. That would give Cunning leaders 25% more Espionage points than leaders without the trait (obviously).

Thoughts?

 

[Cross Cowboy]

I think my problem is with the direct to drive download...I had to totally re install Beyond the Sword and now I cant patch it up, even with their patch! Im going to just head out and get the box version and skip all these problems Ive been having with it. Then hopefully I can get the game and the mod to work. Thanks all for the help!

I also like that idea about Espionage, 25%, and maybe they get a discount on Espionage type buildings.

 

[Deon]

Hello there! I have troubles with small pangea map in custom game with 7+ AIs. It always throws me to the desktop whle generating the map, but Balanced worked fine...

 

[Brave Jay]

Now.... onto Traits... it was mentioned that Cunning is a little weak in the knees. I was thinking of upping the Espionage points to +25% instead of 10%. That would give Cunning leaders 25% more Espionage points than leaders without the trait (obviously).

Thoughts?

25% seems fair. would have to test it out though. That would give someone 5 culture per turn to start (with palace) if the slider was on 0, wouldn't it?

 

[DrewBledsoe]

25% seems fair. would have to test it out though. That would give someone 5 culture per turn to start (with palace) if the slider was on 0, wouldn't it?

If you mean 5 then your right

To me, that sounds quite fair though, and I like the idea of an "insecruitable nation" that relies on secrecy and cunning Cos the thing is, even if its slightly cheaper to steal a tech than resarch it yourself, 1) There is a failure rate and 2) Many techs in HiTM grant a bonus to the first to discover (which isn't you if you steal it) and 3) Someone else has to be the "pigeon" you're letting do all the research for you, and they may get annoyed if you're spies keep getting caught.

Cheaper espionage buildings are already included in the cunning trait.

 

[söör]

Hi!
In multiplayer game scores display screen cannot be seen.

 

[xbeanerx]

This Mod is broken and does Not work please fix it and Reuploaded so the fans of Civs can play.

 

[Brave Jay]

If you mean 5 then your right

To me, that sounds quite fair though, and I like the idea of an "insecruitable nation" that relies on secrecy and cunning Cos the thing is, even if its slightly cheaper to steal a tech than resarch it yourself, 1) There is a failure rate and 2) Many techs in HiTM grant a bonus to the first to discover (which isn't you if you steal it) and 3) Someone else has to be the "pigeon" you're letting do all the research for you, and they may get annoyed if you're spies keep getting caught.

Cheaper espionage buildings are already included in the cunning trait.

oops. yes, espionage points. I was tired this morning. I was lucky to do the simple math right: 4x1.25=5. lol.

Now, would the 25% be multiplied times the E.P.'s per city or empire wide? If per city, would it be rounded? Rounding might weaken the trait.

 

[Grave]

I think my problem is with the direct to drive download...I had to totally re install Beyond the Sword and now I cant patch it up, even with their patch! Im going to just head out and get the box version and skip all these problems Ive been having with it. Then hopefully I can get the game and the mod to work. Thanks all for the help!

Eh.... I never liked direct to drive download games. Problems ALWAYS arise when it comes to modding. Not just Civ, but others, too. That's why I made the requirements for this game a little more specific (CD-ROM, for example).

Hello there! I have troubles with small pangea map in custom game with 7+ AIs. It always throws me to the desktop whle generating the map, but Balanced worked fine...

You're not talking about a pre-made map, are you? If so, I need to direct you to:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5541383&postcount=3

If it's a Custom Game, I need more specifics. Game settings, Civilizations selected, etc. Also post up a screenshot right before the CTD. It'll help.

Hi!
In multiplayer game scores display screen cannot be seen.

Thanks for the report. I don't really play Civ in multiplayer, that's why I put a for Multiplayer Compatibility in the original post.

This Mod is broken and does Not work please fix it and Reuploaded so the fans of Civs can play.

Whatever...

oops. yes, espionage points. I was tired this morning. I was lucky to do the simple math right: 4x1.25=5. lol.

Now, would the 25% be multiplied times the E.P.'s per city or empire wide? If per city, would it be rounded? Rounding might weaken the trait.

It would work like this (example):

If your city was producing 20 Espionage points, with Cunning it would produce 24 Espionage points (given +25% boost).

If your city was producing 0 Espionage points, it would still be 0. 0x0.25=0.

So in order for Cunning to be useful, you gotta build a pretty hefty Espionage network.


But to answer your question... I imagine it's EMPIRE wide, not city specific. So I'm thinking the game takes the total number of Espionage points your empire is generating, then adding 25% to it for the Cunning trait.

 

[omglazers]

If your city was producing 20 Espionage points, with Cunning it would produce 24 Espionage points (given +25% boost).

If your city was producing 0 Espionage points, it would still be 0. 0x0.25=0.

Just to nitpick cause I like to 25% of 20 is 5, not 4

Also, could you maybe address some concerns I brought up earlier in post #779?



So far so good with the mod though

 

[Kalimakhus]

Hello Gragve
Thanks a lot for the new update. It makes an excellent mod even better.

I have some suggestions for minor modifications. I modify these things every time so I thought I might tell you about them anyway.

1 - The sliders change increment for research, culture, or espionage defaults to 10%. In most cases 10% is a huge change that may mean making tons of gold instead of losing tons of it. I always make that 5% to have the chance to fine tune the sliders so I can be in the green with cash without losing too much research.

2 - The limit on xp points acquired when winning combat with Barbs is 10 xp by default. I think it is quite unfair especially if one is playing with raging barbs. So much fight goes for nothing. It is also nice to have experienced units when it comes to the real fight against the AI civs. Of course both human and AI players can gain more xps from fighting barbs so it won't be actually unfair to either remove the limit or at least raise the figure a little.

3 - As it is outlined in this post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6365037&postcount=779
The only problem of the odyssey speed is the lack of build options early in the game. Being a great fan of this speed I usually add a process that turns only 10% of the hammers a city produces into wealth and 10% into culture. Due to rounding and low production early in the game these almost always amount to 0 in most cities. So it is actually an Idle process that you can keep building while nothing of real use can be build in the city. I call the process Carnival as if the city is building entertainment that brings in a little amount of money and culture.

 

[Brave Jay]

Hello Gragve
Thanks a lot for the new update. It makes an excellent mod even better.

I have some suggestions for minor modifications. I modify these things every time so I thought I might tell you about them anyway.

1 - The sliders change increment for research, culture, or espionage defaults to 10%. In most cases 10% is a huge change that may mean making tons of gold instead of losing tons of it. I always make that 5% to have the chance to fine tune the sliders so I can be in the green with cash without losing too much research.

2 - The limit on xp points acquired when winning combat with Barbs is 10 xp by default. I think it is quite unfair especially if one is playing with raging barbs. So much fight goes for nothing. It is also nice to have experienced units when it comes to the real fight against the AI civs. Of course both human and AI players can gain more xps from fighting barbs so it won't be actually unfair to either remove the limit or at least raise the figure a little.

3 - As it is outlined in this post http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6365037&postcount=779
The only problem of the odyssey speed is the lack of build options early in the game. Being a great fan of this speed I usually add a process that turns only 10% of the hammers a city produces into wealth and 10% into culture. Due to rounding and low production early in the game these almost always amount to 0 in most cities. So it is actually an Idle process that you can keep building while nothing of real use can be build in the city. I call the process Carnival as if the city is building entertainment that brings in a little amount of money and culture.

Those are some really interesting and cool sounding suggestions. Mostly refering to number 2 about the experience cap against barbs. I don't think it would break the game to turn that cap off and in the process give people that get swarmed by barbarians a small reward for their work. I like that it would be fair as well since ai's can do the same thing. Never really thought about it much, but I like it.

 

[Cross Cowboy]

Well I got the game, reinstalled it...re patched it and boom...CTD again. Im going to try and just reinstall the MOD again, as Kyle said, and hope for the best!

Ok I put the mod back there and the following happens:

I go thru Single play and do random

Starts to Initialize, then Init Graphics, then gets to Setup players and boom CTD. Any ideas?

Also my graphics card is a Nvidia Geforce 7600GS

LOL ok final update:

IT WORKS!!!! I had put the first file into my documents/mods folder...then just for giggles I put it into the Beyond the sword folder on my C drive and voila it worked! haha..woot!

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Quick point on xp from barbs/ barb xp counting towards GG:- problem is with the slower game speeds and larger maps(marathon/huge is my normal), in certain circumstances, you can fight a heck of a lot of barb combats. My record is honestly 250+ in a game without raging barbs setting.

This would probably be enough xp to give several GGs, and several GGs very early on is quite unbalancing.(for example, you could make 2 or 3 armourys, and with careful troop planning/building, you should almost have free upgrades forever). Or you could settle them and have (with aggressive trait) loads of super promotion soldiers from one city early on, giving a massive advantage against your nearby neighbour. And yes, the ais would get these bonuses too, but if you are they happened to be sheltered from barbs, by a combination of map and chance, then that nation would be at a big disadvantage.

Last game as India, I fluked BW from a hut on turn one and found Copper in my Caps fat radius. Quickly connected up and chopped out 6 axes, not to rush a neighbour but sent them out to fight first animals then barbs for careful "free" xp. When they were all CRIII, had them return home, where a little later on, they headed the charge on first Ethiopia, and then The Dutch. It makes it pretty easy with a decent mixed stack, led by 6 CRIII axes. If those axes were allowed more barb xp, they would/could have been CRIV, which is even more lethal.

Anyways, just some points (sorry not quick in the end)on why I think Firaxis capped barb xp at 10........

 

[Tilarium]

I'm all for Kalimakhus' change ideas! Number 3 is a big one for me, I run out of things to build and either have to build TONS of warriors or mass produce settelers/workers and thus keeping the city form growing.

Adding to number 2... I never liked that fighting barbs doesn't add towards the great general bar. Even if not 100% then why not let it count 50%?

 

[Cross Cowboy]

I have a question on King David being Spi/Sci. Now im not a hebrew scholar by any means, though I do read the bible alot (hence the nickname i have...though that was also my main from CoH). Just wondering what convinced you to put him as Scientific and not say Aggressive or even Imperialistic. I know most leaders in RL prolly had more than 2 traits and it is prolly hard to only give 2, so I was just curious on why you did.

 

[Brave Jay]

Quick point on xp from barbs/ barb xp counting towards GG:- problem is with the slower game speeds and larger maps(marathon/huge is my normal), in certain circumstances, you can fight a heck of a lot of barb combats. My record is honestly 250+ in a game without raging barbs setting.

This would probably be enough xp to give several GGs, and several GGs very early on is quite unbalancing.(for example, you could make 2 or 3 armourys, and with careful troop planning/building, you should almost have free upgrades forever). Or you could settle them and have (with aggressive trait) loads of super promotion soldiers from one city early on, giving a massive advantage against your nearby neighbour. And yes, the ais would get these bonuses too, but if you are they happened to be sheltered from barbs, by a combination of map and chance, then that nation would be at a big disadvantage.

Last game as India, I fluked BW from a hut on turn one and found Copper in my Caps fat radius. Quickly connected up and chopped out 6 axes, not to rush a neighbour but sent them out to fight first animals then barbs for careful "free" xp. When they were all CRIII, had them return home, where a little later on, they headed the charge on first Ethiopia, and then The Dutch. It makes it pretty easy with a decent mixed stack, led by 6 CRIII axes. If those axes were allowed more barb xp, they would/could have been CRIV, which is even more lethal.

Anyways, just some points (sorry not quick in the end)on why I think Firaxis capped barb xp at 10........

I can understand why it would be a bad idea to let barbarian experience points count towards great generals. However, I don't think the cap should be 10 on individual units. It looks like in your game you had a big advantage with early city raider 3 axes. But it's not too often you get lucky with popping early bw from a hut and getting copper right next to your capital.

I guess what would make this interesting would be if the ai could/would use the promotions properly to counter balance the way in which a human player would use theirs. I just hate to have to dumb a game down a notch because ai makes poor choices.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

I can understand why it would be a bad idea to let barbarian experience points count towards great generals. However, I don't think the cap should be 10 on individual units. It looks like in your game you had a big advantage with early city raider 3 axes. But it's not too often you get lucky with popping early bw from a hut and getting copper right next to your capital.

Very true indeed. Even so, I normally try the same with 3 or 4 warriors, then bring them back and promote them to axes...sometimes this fails miserably though

I guess what would make this interesting would be if the ai could/would use the promotions properly to counter balance the way in which a human player would use theirs. I just hate to have to dumb a game down a notch because ai makes poor choices.

Me too. I think the ai does actually a decent job with its promotions now. I just wish it wouldn't build so many damn workers at the start. You absolutely do not need 6 or more workers (especially with slavery's speedy worker bonus) for 3 or 4 cities Mr. AI , build a few more troops instead.

Maybe if Grave was up for it, we could experiment with a few more xp allowed from Barbs (remember Imp trait (Chr in Vanilla)) gets lvl 5 units at 13xp, non Imp at 17xp, so you couldn't go that much higher...say 17xp absolute max....(even then a maxed out Imp civ troop would only need 3 xp from inter-civ combat to make it a West Point enabled unit)...

What's anyone think?