Blacks outside Africa

[Henri Christophe]

Well too bad it's not on the poll.

I just edit it, and add Jamaica and France.
Jamaica I don't put before because I didn't have any knowledge about Queen Nanny, for me, at the time. Jamaica just had produced Boby Marley and the Rastafari.
Luckly a dude here correct me once and tell about a lot of good Jamaican names, but Queen Nanny is the best name to be a civ leader.
Also I can say about France who could be lead by Alexander Dumas, the father. Who fought along side Napoleon in Egypt. And was black, what fullfill this thread main question about Blacks outside Africa.

Yes, blame the community for wanting an actual Native American leader leading a Native American civilization.

For Native American leading a Native American civ we can have a lot of options, Since Iroquois untill Sioux have hundreds of good names.
But, just Seminole can have a black leader (!), and that's happens because the other "civilized" tribes had slavery because it is "civilized" and just the "uncivilized" Seminole allow black people on the community, and not just allow as some names as John Horse and Negro Abraham take positions of power in the community.
Even the leader of Haiti revolution, Georges Biassou fought with Seminole people.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Also I can say about France who could be lead by Alexander Dumas, the father. Who fought along side Napoleon in Egypt. And was black, what fullfill this thread main question about Blacks outside Africa.

If you want to propose a European leader the best option would be either Abram Petrovich Gannibal, who ended up being Peter the Great's godson, for Russia, or Alessandro de'Medici for Florence/Italy. Still they aren't my first choice or even fifth for those particular civs, but they make much more sense than Alexander Dumas for France. His son should appear as a Great Writer though.

 

[Henri Christophe]

If you want to propose a European leader the best option would be either Abram Petrovich Gannibal, who ended up being Peter the Great's godson, for Russia, or Alessandro de'Medici for Florence/Italy. Still they aren't my first choice or even fifth for those particular civs, but they make much more sense than Alexander Dumas for France. His son should appear as a Great Writer though.

This Gannibal I suggested in the first post, I just don't add him to the poll. I believe Gannibal could be a great general of Russia, but is hard to think him as leader of Russia.
That's Alessandro De'Medici of Florence is comletely new for me!!! Is he black? I took a quick look in the wikipedia article you linked up and the fotos there don't seem a black person.
In the first line of WIkipédia article said " nicknamed "il Moro" due to his dark complexion". As far I know Moro is kind of arabic, not black.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This Gannibal I suggested in the first post, I just don't add him to the poll. I believe Gannibal could be a great general of Russia, but is hard to think him as leader of Russia.

I mean he makes more sense as a leader for Russia, then Alexandre Dumas leading France. But I agree that neither one would be among the best options to lead those civs.

That's Alessandro De'Medici of Florence is comletely new for me!!! Is he black? I took a quick look in the wikipedia article you linked up and the fotos there don't seem a black person.
In the first line of WIkipédia article said " nicknamed "il Moro" due to his dark complexion". As far I know Moro is kind of arabic, not black.

His mother was from Africa. 'Moro" in Italian just means black so it doesn't necessarily mean he was Arabic. I guess he could have still been North African descent which would make him more Berber, though.
He was also supposedly the brother of Catherine de Medici, though there was the rumor he was actually the illegitimate son of the Pope, who was still a Medici.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

His mother was from Africa. 'Moro" in Italian just means black so it doesn't necessarily mean he was Arabic. I guess he could have still been North African descent which would make him more Berber, though.
He was also supposedly the brother of Catherine de Medici, though there was the rumor he was actually the illegitimate son of the Pope, who was still a Medici.

I guess I'll allow it (my grudge against the Houses of Medici and Valois still continues though)

 

[Henri Christophe]

I found more two characters who could be a civ leader from the tier: Blacks outside Africa.

Tereza de Benguela 1700-1770

She leads a Quilombo at Mato Grosso (a state of Brazil) called Piolho or Quariterê.
She become queen via mariage and fought against the slavery in the countryside of Brazil.


Other name I found is Gaspar Yanga 1545-1618

Also fought against slavery in the new world, but this time is a Mexican character... Because of Gaspar Yanga, Mexico stopped slavery early one in the century XVII

 

[Patine]

I found more two characters who could be a civ leader from the tier: Blacks outside Africa.

Tereza de Benguela 1700-1770
View attachment 669279
She leads a Quilombo at Mato Grosso (a state of Brazil) called Piolho or Quariterê.
She become queen via mariage and fought against the slavery in the countryside of Brazil.


Other name I found is Gaspar Yanga 1545-1618

Also fought against slavery in the new world, but this time is a Mexican character... Because of Gaspar Yanga, Mexico stopped slavery early one in the century XVII

But did they actually lead civ's, or would they better suited as a Great something-or-other figure?

 

[Henri Christophe]

But did they actually lead civ's, or would they better suited as a Great something-or-other figure?

I think the best is to have a dlc to New World Black Civilizations with leaders as Toussant L'Ouverture, Queen Nanny, Zumbi, Tereza de Benguela and Gaspar Yanga.
But I think is hard to fireaxis agree to put 5 black faces on America, since it's never puts one.

But some of they could appear at least as Great something, as you said, as Nzinga the Angola who was first a great general and now is a leader of Kongo.
But I'm obvious in favor to they be a civ leader.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I think the best is to have a dlc to New World Black Civilizations with leaders as Toussant L'Ouverture, Queen Nanny, Zumbi, Tereza de Benguela and Gaspar Yanga.
But I think is hard to fireaxis agree to put 5 black faces on America, since it's never puts one.

But some of they could appear at least as Great something, as you said, as Nzinga the Angola who was first a great general and now is a leader of Kongo.
But I'm obvious in favor to they be a civ leader.

I don't want black leader for the sake of having black leader. That is disrespectful for blacks.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I think the best is to have a dlc to New World Black Civilizations with leaders as Toussant L'Ouverture, Queen Nanny, Zumbi, Tereza de Benguela and Gaspar Yanga.
But I think is hard to fireaxis agree to put 5 black faces on America, since it's never puts one.

But some of they could appear at least as Great something, as you said, as Nzinga the Angola who was first a great general and now is a leader of Kongo.
But I'm obvious in favor to they be a civ leader.

Well, Haiti is the one that matters the most out of all them. William Wilberforce would be an interesting man to read about, as he singlehandedly led the anti-slavery movement in Britain, and in Britain (unlike my home nation of America) there was no civil war needed!

 

[Henri Christophe]

I don't want black leader for the sake of having black leader. That is disrespectful for blacks.

I guess we already discuss this on this thread.
But my list is about black leaders who have doing some thing remarkble on history.
Since they are black on Americas, all of they fought against slavery, what is very remarkble!

And I rly believe this game should stop doing Slave owners as George Washigton and start to do mens who fought against the slavery.
Was because man as Toussant L'Ouverture, for example, we all can be free on XXI century.

Well, Haiti is the one that matters the most out of all them. William Wilberforce would be an interesting man to read about, as he singlehandedly led the anti-slavery movement in Britain, and in Britain (unlike my home nation of America) there was no civil war needed!

And also Britain force country, as Brazil, to stop doing the slavery trade.
I will read more about William Willberforce, thanks

 

[Caesar of Bread]

I don't want black leader for the sake of having black leader. That is disrespectful for blacks.

I agree

 

[Caesar of Bread]

And I rly believe this game should stop doing Slave owners as George Washigton and start to do mens who fought against the slavery.

But Washington and Jefferson freed their enslaved people after death! And they are widely respected in America as national heroes (Washington as the 1st president and Jefferson as the father of the Declaration of Independence [and the inventor of ice cream])

 

[reddishrecue]

They probably mean the 13, 14 and 15 amendments that were passed later during Lincoln administration. Either way when the war was revolutionary, colonials were free and the red coats granted freedom to all who fought for the king.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Jefferson as the father of the Declaration of Independence [and the inventor of ice cream])

One more reason why Jefferson should lead.

 

[Patine]

I guess we already discuss this on this thread.
But my list is about black leaders who have doing some thing remarkble on history.
Since they are black on Americas, all of they fought against slavery, what is very remarkble!

And I rly believe this game should stop doing Slave owners as George Washigton and start to do mens who fought against the slavery.
Was because man as Toussant L'Ouverture, for example, we all can be free on XXI century.

I think the point is, while L'Ouveture qualifies to be a civ leader, I don't believe any of the others should be in that position. They should be, as I said, Great This-and-That's, as their claim of being leaders of whole civ's is dubious to non-existent.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

And I rly believe this game should stop doing Slave owners as George Washigton and start to do mens who fought against the slavery.

LOLZ I guess romans are out of picture since they owned slaves... in fact leaders who lived eras before emancipation of slaves shouldn't be in civ because they owned slaves. So no ancient/ medieval/ early modern era- since they most likely owned slaves.

 

[Henri Christophe]

LOLZ I guess romans are out of picture since they owned slaves... in fact leaders who lived eras before emancipation of slaves shouldn't be in civ because they owned slaves. So no ancient/ medieval/ early modern era- since they most likely owned slaves.

You are kind of right when say about the Romans had slaves, also Greeks also had slaves.
But, slavery isn't so wide spread around the world as you think. Ancient civilizations as Egypt, Sumeria or China doesn't relly in slavery.
Also new world civilizations don't pratice slavery before the arrival of europeans. (Medieval Europe also don't relly in slavery)
Since most of civilizations who was slave owners was white civilizations, cut they down of the game can help this game be more decolonial.
But my focus isn't cut civilizations, but in oder hand, my focus is to have more black civs to we speak about the fought against slavery.

I think the point is, while L'Ouveture qualifies to be a civ leader, I don't believe any of the others should be in that position. They should be, as I said, Great This-and-That's, as their claim of being leaders of whole civ's is dubious to non-existent.

Okay, L'Ouverture can be the best option, but isn't the only one.
And I gave so many leaders names in this thread what I think is possible to do a DLC just about blacks in new world.
And some of this civilizations as Palmares lead by Zumbi and Quariterê lead by Tereza should help fullfill the gaps in the world map when we play in real location earth, Brazil landmass is very empety btw.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

China doesn't relly in slavery.

*facepalm* As Asian-born that is just SO WRONG

Slavery in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also new world civilizations don't pratice slavery before the arrival of europeans.

Slavery in the Aztec Empire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you know nothing.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

You are kind of right when say about the Romans had slaves, also Greeks also had slaves.
But, slavery isn't so wide spread around the world as you think. Ancient civilizations as Egypt, Sumeria or China doesn't relly in slavery.
Also new world civilizations don't pratice slavery before the arrival of europeans. (Medieval Europe also don't relly in slavery)
Since most of civilizations who was slave owners was white civilizations, cut they down of the game can help this game be more decolonial.
But my focus isn't cut civilizations, but in oder hand, my focus is to have more black civs to we speak about the fought against slavery.

Are you really professing that white's were the only slave owners throughout history?
The Jews were enslaved by Ancient Egypt. Slavery was mentioned in the Code of Hammurabi. The Mamluks of the Arabian caliphates and Janissaries of the Ottoman Empire were in fact slave soldiers. Africa participated in the Muslim slave trade way before the transatlantic slave trade. Qin used forced labor to build his Terracotta army etc. In the Americas Aztecs, Maya, and various other groups had a form of slavery way before Europeans arrived.
I mean North Korea has slave labor camps now.