Blackwater dropped in Iraq

[JollyRoger]

Why not?

Because we are fundingh an adequately sized military already.

No, it merely makes them contractors. Although the pay is certainly higher than what your average grunt makes, you have to remember that the government doesnt pay for their health care, retirement benefits, etc. while they are doing contract work.

Would they end up net better of as contractors or members of the military? The bloated pay far overcomes the lack of socialized perks.

They are essentially doing what you, yourself advocated what contract services you would offer in order to get rid of those meaningless desk jobs you whine so much about.

Just as I don't see why the taxpayer should foot such things as legal services for members of the military (let them pay for their own wills just like Joe and Jane Civilian), I also don't see why the American taxpayer should be on the hook for private mercenaries when we are already on the hook for the military.

You yourself would take a government contract if enough money were involved. Dont lie.

Sure. Let's say that the government still thought that the taxpayer should foot the bills for basic estate planning for grunts, but they decided to outsource it instead of doing it in house. My taking on the work would be the patriotic thing to do since it would free up someone more combat ready than me to more directly fight the war on terror.

I'm basically saying outsource some desk jobs and let the fighting of our wars be the exclusive province of the military instead outsourcing a multi-billion dollar portion to overpriced private mercenaries. You seem to be advocating the opposite.

 

[MobBoss]

Because we are fundingh an adequately sized military already.

I dont necessarily disagree with you, but this is in contradiction of comments by you in other threads previous to this.

Would they end up net better of as contractors or members of the military? The bloated pay far overcomes the lack of socialized perks.

I would assume so, but I have never sat down and actually worked the numbers.

Just as I don't see why the taxpayer should foot such things as legal services for members of the military (let them pay for their own wills just like Joe and Jane Civilian), I also don't see why the American taxpayer should be on the hook for private mercenaries when we are already on the hook for the military.

In a word: Specialization. Thats why.

Sure. Let's say that the government still thought that the taxpayer should foot the bills for basic estate planning for grunts, but they decided to outsource it instead of doing it in house. My taking on the work would be the patriotic thing to do since it would free up someone more combat ready than me to more directly fight the war on terror.

Rofl. Whatever. Honestly, I dont think you have a patriotic bone in your body, and this comment by you is the sort that makes the Cheshire Cat grin.

I'm basically saying outsource some desk jobs and let the fighting of our wars be the exclusive province of the military instead outsourcing a multi-billion dollar portion to overpriced private mercenaries. You seem to be advocating the opposite.

You are correct, because just like outsourcing the Blackwater jobs, outsourcing the desk jobs would be overly expensive as well. I dont see the need for Blackwater and absolutely am of the opinion the government shouldnt be spending that outlandish cash for those services. I know several Blackwater employees however, and they are decent enough folks, but I just see what they do as being redundant and more expensive than using similar US troops with equitable skill sets.

 

[JollyRoger]

Rofl. Whatever. Honestly, I dont think you have a patriotic bone in your body, and this comment by you is the sort that makes the Cheshire Cat grin.

Just taking the last refuge of a scoundrel.

You are correct, because just like outsourcing the Blackwater jobs, outsourcing the desk jobs would be overly expensive as well. I dont see the need for Blackwater and absolutely am of the opinion the government shouldnt be spending that outlandish cash for those services. I know several Blackwater employees however, and they are decent enough folks, but I just see what they do as being redundant and more expensive than using similar US troops with equitable skill sets.

See, we agree on Blackwater. As a taxpayer, I think some of the desk jobs are unnecessary, but if we need to subsidize our defenders of freedom with items that most others have to obtain from the free market, so be it.

 

[Patroklos]

Who here has actually worked with Blackwater besides me?

 

[nonconformist]

well we hired them for the church's summer fayre

 

[storealex]

Question 1:

Wouldn't it be cheaper, in these financial crisis times, to simply have the US army carry out the same work instead of Blackwater?

Question 2:

Could the US army carry out the same work, as good or better than Blackwater, or would it be worse?

 

[Patroklos]

Wouldn't it be cheaper, in these financial crisis times, to simply have the US army carry out the same work instead of Blackwater?

No, which is one of the most misunderstood things about them. Sure they are making 300K in salary, but that is the ONLY cost associated with their use. No equipment charges. No food. No training (to include the hundreds of hours of sexual harrasment/alcohol/equal opportunity/etc), no medical benefits, no family medical benefits, no transportation fees, no command oversight of traffic tickets/DUIs/Financial troubles, no mandatory down time, and so on and so on.

Could the US army carry out the same work, as good or better than Blackwater, or would it be worse?

Probably, but the military COULD do all sorts of things. Who guarded our dilomats in the Cold War, besides the embassy guards themselves it certainly wasn't the military.

The military is designed and trained to do certain things. You can't just take an infantry soldier and magically make him a body guard. Especially since his time as a body guard would screw up his career track.

 

[MobBoss]

No, which is one of the most misunderstood things about them. Sure they are making 300K in salary, but that is the ONLY cost associated with their use. No equipment charges. No food. No training (to include the hundreds of hours of sexual harrasment/alcohol/equal opportunity/etc), no medical benefits, no family medical benefits, no transportation fees, no command oversight of traffic tickets/DUIs/Financial troubles, no mandatory down time, and so on and so on.

I alluded to this earlier, and is why I would balk to say whether its fiscally a 'good deal' for us or not. I am not sure what the score is once all the myriad and many costs are added up.

Probably, but the military COULD do all sorts of things. Who guarded our dilomats in the Cold War, besides the embassy guards themselves it certainly wasn't the military.

Typically, it was the army and marines I do believe.

The military is designed and trained to do certain things. You can't just take an infantry soldier and magically make him a body guard. Especially since his time as a body guard would screw up his career track.

Actually, prior to this, flag officers generally did have a personal bodyguard contingent usually manned by infantry or mil police soldiers. It wouldnt 'screw up' their career track - in fact, having an NCOER signed personally by a general would be a career enhancer, not detractor. I know this because I spent a few years on an Executive Assistant team for a one star general. earlier in my career.

 

[FriendlyFire]

No, which is one of the most misunderstood things about them. Sure they are making 300K in salary, but that is the ONLY cost associated with their use. No equipment charges. No food. No training (to include the hundreds of hours of sexual harrasment/alcohol/equal opportunity/etc), no medical benefits, no family medical benefits, no transportation fees, no command oversight of traffic tickets/DUIs/Financial troubles, no mandatory down time, and so on and so on.

US pays $420,000 per person per year PMC cost.
and like i said PMC have limited mission capabilities and assignments compared with regular Army.

EDIT:
Just to be clear PMC do not engage in set urban battles, engage in counter insurgency activities, run combat patrols etc etc.
Also KBR charged the US government millions to have parties, TVs and other luxuries paid for in addition to normal contract cost. Well whats a few Billion now anyways.