blid02 - The farmers shuttle

[blid]

IMO, 550 is too risky. We are probably safer expanding and building basic infra.
Concerning the second city, I'd rather have it with enough food to grow quickly. If we don't need the marble right now we can go for city B or south on the river bank. 2S of rice would be to close to city B, maybe we can go after 1S1SE of rice and settle B later. The marble site have too much jungle and the AI would delay it anyway

I would connect the horses asap and build chariots? They serve better against barbs

 

[Immaculate]

The forge trick doesn't mean you have to take pyramids. You could take any early wonder that you want depending on what is left. Pyramids may be left, in which case you can take them If they aren't, you haven't lost anything; you still have an engineer ready to bounce. The hundreds of hammers saved may be worth it depending on which wonder you decide to take. In my opinion, just because you get beat to the pyramids doesn't mean you can't make very good use of an early engineer. Lots of wonders out there...

 

[sooooo]

Played 15 turns.

IHT (2050 BC): I cancel our worker chopping forest at Moscow. He is much better used roading the horses to let us build chariots.

T1 (2020 BC): The archer disappears, I would later discover that he died to Asoka's archer. Worker starts road on horse pasture. Since we no longer are worried about the barb archer, I cancel the warrior and do a 2-pop whip on a work boat, letting overflow go into a worker next turn.

T2 (1990 BC): Moscow starts worker.

T3 (1960 BC): Our settler is ready to settle. I have to veto blid's 1S, 1SW of the rice because that prevents us founding a city which uses the fish near moscow. In a no cottage variant, we cannot afford to waste food resources. The spot 2S of the rice would also clash slightly with this city, and also with a city in the south which would claim cows and wheat. So I decide on 2S, 1E of the rice. This minimises clashes with other potential cities, which I have tentatively marked with an X on the map in the final screenshot. Marble city can easily move north - it's not like it could work the rice.



T4 (1930 BC): Finish roading horses, that worker finishes chopping the forest ready for a chariot to barb-bust.

T5 (1900 BC): Moscow finishes worker, starts chariot, max growth.

T6 (1870 AD): Finish chop into chariot.

T7 (1840 AD): Finish chariot, start another chariot but at max growth again, planning to start settler at next growth.

T10 (1750 AD): Swap Moscow to settler, reconfigure city to work horses.

T11 (1720 AD): Cyrus converts to Hinduism.

T12 (1690 AD): Asoka has put his city here:



T14 (1630 AD): Whip settler.

T15 (1600 AD): Overflow into the chariot I previously started.



Settler is heading for the X due east of Novgorod.

The Save

 

[blid]

I have to veto blid's 1S, 1SW of the rice because that prevents us founding a city which uses the fish near moscow. In a no cottage variant, we cannot afford to waste food resources. The spot 2S of the rice would also clash slightly with this city, and also with a city in the south which would claim cows and wheat. So I decide on 2S, 1E of the rice. This minimises clashes with other potential cities, which I have tentatively marked with an X on the map in the final screenshot.

I have proposed the same spot you settled on, 1S1SE if the rice for exactly the same reason. I just use diagonal movement, you don't

I like settling aggressively in the direction of Asoka. Delhi is already size 8 while Moscow is a measly size 2

So what to research after IW ? pottery or writing right away ? Even though we can't build cottages, granaries are half price for expansive leaders.

ROSTER :

• blid
• Kanga_DU
• Bede
• Sooooo : just played
• GreyFox : UP
• Jet : On deck

 

[sooooo]

I have proposed the same spot you settled on, 1S1SE if the rice for exactly the same reason. I just use diagonal movement, you don't

Oh, er, OK!

Pottery for granaries looks good.

 

[GreyFox]

Got it ... I will delay the next city location selection until IW is in.

--

 

[blid]

Got it ... I will delay the next city location selection until IW is in.

--

That's a good idea. I would stay close the selected spot though, just in case Asoka sends a settling party there

 

[Atlas]

Lurker's comment

Edit: Overtaken by events

 

[GreyFox]

As planned, although I have the settler reached the intended site, waited 1 or 2 turns for iron working to come in ...

The wait was worth it. Two sources of iron deposit as far as I can see. One at the south:

The other just outside the settler's intended site:

I proceed to settle Novgorod:

Incidentally (and OOT), they fixed the blue-circle bug. The computer hint will no longer take into consideration unrevealed resources, as is evident by the change of blue circle to encompass iron as well ... didn't know that.

Anyway, the rest of my 15 turns(wasn't sure to play 15 or 20, since soooo played only 15, I follow suit) was quiet. Simply got us pottery, heading towards Writing.

We are also broke, so Writing will come in much later. I have a settler almost ready in 2 turns ... (thereafter Moscow should switch from horse pasture to work on clams to encourage growth). I have also agreed to an open border treaty with Carthage. Here is the situation:

In retrospect, I think I having the worker to mine a hill. Should have build another farm to encourage growth first. The road at the rice in between the two cities is to connect Novgorod. Speaking of which, it is a pity that in my inherited turns, the workers are building road one tile east of rice near St Pete. The road should be built on the rice instead since we need it sooner or later to connect the rice.

>>> The Save (1150BC) <<<

Spoiler autolog :

Logging by Ruff's Cobbled Mod Pack v2.0.3 (Warlords v2.08) - New Log Entries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn 80/660 (1600 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:41:19]

IBT:

Turn 81/660 (1570 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:41:58]
Moscow finishes: Chariot

IBT:

Turn 82/660 (1540 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:42:46]
Moscow begins: Chariot (13 turns)

IBT:

Turn 83/660 (1510 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:43:35]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The farmers(Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 84/660 (1480 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:44:15]
Moscow grows: 3
St. Petersburg grows: 2

IBT:

Turn 85/660 (1450 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:44:37]
Moscow begins: Settler (13 turns)
Tech learned: Iron Working

IBT:

Turn 86/660 (1420 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:45:42]
Research begun: Pottery (8 Turns)
Novgorod founded
Novgorod begins: Monument (23 turns)
A Farm was built near St. Petersburg

IBT:

Turn 87/660 (1390 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:47:21]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The farmers(Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 88/660 (1360 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:48:18]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The farmers(Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 89/660 (1330 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:48:53]
St. Petersburg finishes: Monument

IBT:
A Quarry near Nidaros was destroyed by Barbarian Warrior
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The farmers(Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 90/660 (1300 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:49:38]
St. Petersburg begins: Chariot (19 turns)

IBT:
A Pasture near London was destroyed by Barbarian Archer
A Pasture near Nidaros was destroyed by Barbarian Warrior
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The farmers(Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 91/660 (1270 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:50:44]
Tech learned: Pottery

IBT:
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards The farmers(Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 92/660 (1240 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:51:07]
Research begun: Writing (11 Turns)

IBT:
A Mine near Delhi was destroyed by Barbarian Archer

Turn 93/660 (1210 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:52:12]

IBT:

Turn 94/660 (1180 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:53:10]

IBT:
A Pasture near Madras was destroyed by Barbarian Warrior

Turn 95/660 (1150 BC) [16-Jan-2007 23:53:48]

 

[sooooo]

A Quarry near Nidaros was destroyed by Barbarian Warrior
A Pasture near London was destroyed by Barbarian Archer
A Pasture near Nidaros was destroyed by Barbarian Warrior
A Mine near Delhi was destroyed by Barbarian Archer
A Pasture near Madras was destroyed by Barbarian Warrior

The pillaging is funny, but isn't your autologger revealing spoiler information? There's no way we can see that pillaging, and we didn't even know England was in the game before it said London was depasteurised.

Speaking of which, it is a pity that in my inherited turns, the workers are building road one tile east of rice near St Pete. The road should be built on the rice instead since we need it sooner or later to connect the rice.

Not true, the health benefit from being expansive means there is no rush to connect the rice. Putting the road where it is lets us get troops around our empire, specifically Novgorod, 1 turn quicker to defend it.

 

[ruff_hi]

The pillaging is funny, but isn't your autologger revealing spoiler information? There's no way we can see that pillaging, and we didn't even know England was in the game before it said London was depasteurised.

Good to see that GF downloaded the latest version but ... my fault re the spoiler info There is a bug in the logger that reports certain events even when you don't know the civ. It is on my list of things to do. I had assumed that the user would delete spoiler things like this prior to posting.

The plan is to change it so that it only reports your improvements being pillaged unless your unit does the pillaging - does that sound non-spoilerish?

 

[Jet]

Got it for tonight. I'm inclined to drop the settler 1E of the Wheat and otherwise build buildings/units/workers, and after Writing research Masonry, which we'd need either for Construction or for Literature (for the Marble buildings). Alternative would be Alphabet with the intention of trading it for Masonry and Poly and then researching Literature. Thoughts?

Also we should discuss such things as
- do we want to attack India? I think so, soon
- with what units? I think catapults, Delhi is the prize but it's a holy city on a hill (anyone notice the bastard popped a gems in like 3000 BC?)
- do we want to research Literature first? I'd say yes if I thought we could farm a level 4 unit from barbs. Otherwise I don't know. We could do a preliminary attack on India's peripheral cities with axes and swords for the purpose of farming a level 4 unit, then stop and tech to Lit and Construction and attack again with a Heroic Epic army

 

[blid]

I can't download the save.

Concerning research, I think it depends on where we settle next. If we're going for the wheat site, then we probably better chase alphabet and trade for masonry. We need to have the marble connected when we get started on the great library. With the wheat site, it would make 5 cities. Taking some indian cities before code of laws would hurt our economy.

The other alternative is settling the marble site now, on the coast to have the marble at hand when needed and prepare some swords/axes for the initial raid on India. In this case, we might need to research masonry ourselves.

If possible, I'd rather have Asoka build the shrine before we take his capital. So we can take option 1, and attack once COL is researched and we have a couple cities running scientists to avoid banqueroute.

 

[GreyFox]

The pillaging is funny, but isn't your autologger revealing spoiler information?

Which is why it was placed in spoiler tags ...

Seriously, I didn't noticed that. Well, the developer already knows, so I guess nothing much I can do except to stop using the autologger for the time being.

Not true, the health benefit from being expansive means there is no rush to connect the rice. Putting the road where it is lets us get troops around our empire, specifically Novgorod, 1 turn quicker to defend it.

point taken ... does that means that it is a pity I choose to build the road on the grassland instead of on the hill? ... but on the grassland is a lot more turns faster tho.


On research path and next city site:

I think we should go for Literature first. Masonry can always be traded for. Thus the next city should be on/near the marble. After Literature, then we go for maths, construction and say hello to Asoka.

Any reason why we want to settle wheat first? What does it brings to us that we don't already have?

 

[Jet]

> Any reason why we want to settle wheat first? What does it brings to us that we don't already have?
More food, more production, and blocking Carthage. He has a city 5 tiles away.

 

[Jet]

For that reason I settled Rostov next to the wheat. I whipped granaries ASAP, probably a bit over-eagerly. Hinduism magically spread to all cities except Moscow, which conveniently made Monuments less pressing. Currently Moscow and St Pete are working on Barracks and have their tiles set specially for hammers and commerce because of whip weariness.

Writing finished and I started Alphabet. Lit then Construction sounds good to me. Of course we need a Library in Moscow, but it had a Chariot in queue and my instinct was to finish a Barracks first.

Didn't feel I had a good opportunity to build any more Workers yet.

I accepted a Crab for Clam deal with Hannibal to improve relations in case that's useful in the future. I declined OB with Asoka in case there are any objections, but I suspect it would be good for trade routes now and scouting later.

There's an Indian settler gang north of Novgorod.

Details:

Spoiler :

0 - 1150 - looks good, press enter

1 - 1120 - Hinduism spreads to Novgorod. Sweet. I stick a Granary in front of its Monument. An exploring Carthaginian Archer appears south of St Pete.

2 - 1090 - settler in Moscow. I want to settle 1E of Wheat. Send the settler down and whip the Chariot in St Pete as an escort (only 1 pop and no barracks, but we need it now.)
Moscow puts another turn into chariot. I don't want to finish it until Moscow has a barracks but I hope I can ensure that there is no hammer decay (not sure if it will work).

3 - 1060 - The overflow from the chariot in St Pete goes into a Granary. Moscow starts a Granary.
I notice Moscow has all food+hammers+commerce buttons on. What does that do?

4 - 1030 - Novgorod worker finishes farm, moves to grass hill for mine. Moscow and St Pete whip granaries for 1 pop each. Woo-hoo! We got plenty more where that came from!

5 - 1000 - Moscow and St Pete both starts Barracks. In hindsight I suppose Moscow could have built other junk while waiting for Writing, but I like Barracks. I settle Rostov by the Wheat and start a Granary. My reasoning is that it's next to an improvable resource, which I send St Pete's worker down to improve, so it doesn't absolutely need the Monument yet.

7 - 985 -

Hmm. I capitalize Farmers in our name.

Temple of Artemis BIDA.

8 - 970 - Novgorod whips Granary - ooh baby.

9 - 955 - Asoka offers OB. I think it would probably be a good idea - especially for the trade route commerce but also for scouting later - but I decline in case there are any objections from the other farmers. Novgorod continues its Monument.

10 - 940 - Hinduism spreads to Rostov. Daaang.

11 - 925 - St Pete's borders expand. Yeah, I know we'll need more workers soon. Mosow can whip the Barracks. Hmm. I play with the tiles.

I guess I'll leave it like that.

12 - 910 - move Novgorod's worker to the plains hill to build a road on the way to the Iron. Oops, should have built the mine there.

13 - 895 - finish Writing, start Alphabet. Lit then Construction sounds like a good plan to me.

14 - 880 - Hinduism spreads to St Pete. Holy cow! St Pete can whip its Barracks but - oops - already has 2 whip weariness. I put it on max production.

15 - 865 - Hannibal offers 1 of 3 Crab for 1 of 2 Clam. We don't need it but since we've got the OBs, I figure why not snuggle up a bit more. So I take it. (Is it any better for the fact that he proposed it?)

Watch out for the Indian settler gang north of Novgorod.

By the way I trhink the coastal Marble spot is OK, but I think 2S of that is better. Even if it wasn't allowed to overlap with St Pete it would then get more grassland and less coast. Coast might be good for emergency commerce, but you have to build the Lighthouse, and I hope we can find other ways of getting wealth.

 

[GreyFox]

If we are expansive, our workers should be 50&#37; cheaper. We should made full use of it, either whip or build it through conventional means. In fact whip makes much sense, since each pop will give 150% of 45hammers = 67.5 hammers. In fact any whip should be used on worker for 2 reasons: (a) 50% more hammers, and (2) any turns spent on producing worker is a turn spent not growing.

Indian archer near Novgorod? I really hope we don't lose the marble site ... I would've settled there first but that's just me. If we are worried abt commerce, we should not settle on the marble (that loses the commerce benefits of quarried marble).

--

--

 

[sooooo]

I really hope Hannibal doesn't adopt Hinduism. Think we should ally ourselves with him. Perhaps we could spread Taoism to him en-masse when we inevitably found it.

Let's chop some libraries and get some scientists going.

 

[blid]

Got it. I would see to hiring some geeks. Our research rate gets +50&#37; from 2 scientists

 

[sooooo]

I now agree with others that the best place for marble city is not on the coast - 2S would be better. I was forgetting our variant. Land grassland squares are potentially +4 food with biology, much better than the +2 for coast.

Speaking of biology, it should be one of our medium-term goals. Another one should be optics on this continents map - meeting the other continent's civs before your neighbours is usually huge in terms of the tech trading benefits. Did a wise man not once say that the path to biology is paved with GS-lightbulbing?