BNH01- Conquesting Emperor

Well since no one is posting im gonna make the save and show the pic see if you would like to go with it.
 
Well i made the save and here is what our start spot will look like if we would like to go with it.
BNH01-_Start_Spot.jpg

I think it looks very nice. Good potential and shields/food. Settler factory probably.
Here is the save and I say we get this thing started.
BNH01- Conquesting Emperors 4000bc

Its huge, arch, 60% land with warm, wet, 4 billion years old. Normal aggression and sedentery barbarians.

Hail to the power of Prince Henry of Portugul
:king: :king: :king:
 
Here is the order so if we want we can start.
Rik Meleet<------ up
jb1964<------ on deck
BigNHuge<------ in the hole
SJ Frank
 
Checking in

Portugal + Arch, looks good :goodjob:

What should our starting moves be?

Our starting position looks good, though there isn't enough food to make a 4-turn settler factory.

As far as settler move goes, we'd like to stay on the coast, stay on the river, and stay next to the cattle, so the only possible move is to the NE(onto the BG), and the only reason to do so is to gain another food bonus. Therefore, I vote for moving the scout N-NE onto the mountain, to checkout those fog covered tile over there.

I have no idea what our starting techs are, so I have nothing to say on the research department.

What about build order? warrior or curragh?
 
Starting turn:
[0] 4000 BC.
The general rule on moving the settler is: "Only consider moving if your starting position is crap". Well Obviously it isn't. 2nd rule is: "don't settle on bonus-grasslands". 3rd rule is: "move the worker and scout first, perhaps there are better locations". Worker goes due West. More grassland, more river, more mountains. The scout goes due north. Wheat 4 tiles north. Great 2nd site. Settle on the spot. "Lissabon" founded. A goody hut just outside our borders. Start curragh.
Set research to Ceremonial Burial as it is the cheapest tech so we won't get the cheapest tech from huts. 100% Sci.

[1] 3950 BC. Worker mines, Scout scouts.
[2] 3900 BC. idem
[3] 3850 BC. Scout finds coast in the West.
[4] 3800 BC. Worker mines, Scout scouts.
[5] 3750 BC. Scout finds a Goody hut.
[6] 3700 BC. Scout is on a volcano which is about to become active :eek: ! The hut gives us 25 gold. Lissabon will grow next turn, so I switch tiles around.
IBT: Lissabon grows and Curragh is finished. Starting scout.
[7] 3650 BC. Up lux to 10%. Curragh explores southwards. Mine finished, worker roads the tile. Scout sees the tip of the likely Northern Coast. Switch tiles to build Scout in 2.
[8] 3600 BC. Scout moving further north.
IBT: scout build in Lissabon. Next in queue: Settler.
[9] 3550 BC. New scout pops the hut and finds: Warrior Code. Northern Scout "Pablo" finds Ivory.
IBT: Lissabon expands it's borders. Volcano erupts.
[10] 3500 BC. Move worker towards cow.
[11] 3450 BC. Southern Scout "Juan" finds Incense. Our curragh reaches the south tip of our Island.
IBT: another volcano erupts.
[12] 3400 BC. Pablo finds more wheat.
[13] 3350 BC. More land scouted. Juan finds some Tundra-Game.
[14] 3300 BC. Pablo spots another goody hut. So does our Curragh.
IBT: Lissabon grows to size 3.
[15] 3250 BC. Lux upped to 30%. Settler due in 1. Curragh finds Tobacco. Pablo moves into position to pop the hut next turn, also spotting an oasis. Juan is moving towards the other hut.

So my 15 turns are done. I believe 10 turns from now on.


Click image for larger version.

The Save
 
Very nice so here is the order now. Looks very good start wise.

Rik Meleet<------ Just played
jb1964<------ Up
BigNHuge<------ on deck
SJ Frank<------ in the hole
 
Hi guys, I downloaded the save, and took the liberty of creating a tentative dot-map:

BNH01-DotMap2.jpg


sites 1 - 5 are the most important ones in my estimation.

1 is the 4-turn settler factory

2 gets the Ivory (SoZ anyone :D )

3 allows 1 to get that 2nd wheat without having to build a temple. It could be build one tile to the NW in order to reduce overlap, but doing so would use up a valuable food tile. Site 3 is surrounded by mountains, so in the future, it's going to need all the food tile is can get.

4 is our wonder site, settle it then immediately put it on a pre-build

5 could be our FP site. It is on the 2nd ring, in the general direction of our future expension, and has plenty of good shields. When I play solo, I like to pick out the FP early, and settle it with high priority. Getting the FP early make a huge difference IMO.

Note that most cities are on fresh water, and most do not need a temple to be productive cities.

Comments?
 
I also contemplated switching Lissabon to a granary right now.

Without our 2nd city being such a strong site, it would be a no brainer to do granary first.

However, right now we do have a trade off. Between 1) founding our 2nd city 9 turns early (yes, I counted, it would take Lissabon exactly 10 turns to build the granary then the settler), vs. 2) delaying our 3rd city to probably the 6th city by at least 10 turns. Cities 7 and beyond will benefit from founding city 2 earlier, because by then the settler factory in city 2 will be up and running.

My personal opinion is to do the granary first, because I think cities 2 - 6 are all very important to us. The real decision, of course, rests with jb1964 :) .

Now, if you choose the granary first route, there is quite a bit of micro-management to be done. In order to do the granary in 6 (to have it finish right before growth, this is very important), you must move the citizen on the cattle to work forrest for one turn, then return him to the cattle on the next turn.

Then, in order to follow the granary immediately with a 4-turn settler, you must have the worker finish his mine, road the same square, then immediately move onto the cattle tile and start irregating, without delay.

Within the city screen, you must make sure that the governer is on production. Upon growth from size 3 to 4, you must move the citizen from the forrest tile to the BG tile (to give the city +3 food per turn). The worker will finish his irrigation just in time to fill out the food box on the 4th turn, and the auto-picked citizen on growth from size 4 to 5 will be just enough to complete the settler that turn.

Simple, no? :p
 
The decision on the granary is for the next player (jb1964) of course, but let me state why I didn't queue a granary. at 3 citizens we are already on 30% lux-slider. with 4 and 5 it will certainly harm our research. My thoughts were to connect luxuries quickly and then grow.
 
My thoughts are we get a settler out asap. We need lux and a 2nd city. Make city #2 our granary city and have Lisbon be able to get the Great Lighthouse in the not so distant future. On Archy you never know what kind of distance is between our empire and another. I say we have Lissabon make settlers when it needs to shrink for lux tax reasons, put something like a barracks (Not really needed yet, but those Veteran spears/AC would be nice for stand by) and crank out the defense or build more curraghs/galleys for exploration.

I would like to try to get a tech the AI wouldn't get early and have that for trading purposes.(Something tells me that we will be hopelessly behind in tech, but wheres the challenge when your always 3 or 4 techs ahead)

Also have we scouted all the island? If so and we havent found anyone save those scouts and fill up a few galleys with them for scouting other large islands for better map value in the future.

The dot map you gave is a very good one i agree with. Good work on it.

Very good 15 turns there Rik. Looks like were on track for an intresting game. :)
 
I just remembered that JB is in 1.15b because of a SG that he is in right now (GGF4)

JB do you want a skip or are you upgrading?
 
Also forgot to mention that we are on the 24 hours to get and 48 hours to play
 
This is something that I learned while reading games by the experts on this forum, that lux tax concerns is a very bad reason to reduce your city size early in the game.

I look at it this way, by playing around with the lux slider in the F1 screen, you can actually put an exactly dollar value on what the lux tax is costing you.

For example, at this stage in the game, each tick on slider is costing around 2 gold, and we are planing to run the higher lux for, say 100 turns. What is that costing you? Exactly 200 gold. And what is the benefit? Founding each of your cities X turns earlier.

Compare this price with some of the other things that you have to pay for:

60 gold to upgrade one warrior to swordsmen.
~240 gold to rush one temple
~200 gold to buy one ancient era tech (after some contacts are made)

Paying money to found cities early is an extreme good deal, because its effect snowballs.

That also means hooking up lux is also a lower priority. Those workers should work on getting more cities founded more quickly, because the trade off is once again, growth vs. gold.

I wouldn't mind runing 50% or even 70% lux for a few turns in this game. Try it, you just might like it ;)
 
I say we weigh both sides of the issue before we continue.
 
This just came up, I'm going to be out of town for this weekend, from thursday afternoon to probably monday night. I will have web access, but unfortunately no civ access.

This means that 1) please skip me during that time, sorry about it :blush:
and 2) I'd really like to get a turn in before I go, preferably after BigNHuge.

As far as the granary vs settler, I'm fine with whatever JB or Big decides to do. It is a SG after all, and I don't mind trying things that I normally wouldn't do myself.

In my previous post, I was trying to point out that going for settler right now for lux concerns is probably not a good reason. Going for an early settler because our 2nd city site is so strong is a very good reason. In fact, if we are on our own lsland, we should definitely do it.

Big also raises a interesting point about building the Lighthouse in Lisbon. It could be very useful on this map.

If we want to do it, we'll need to reasearch/buy Masonry for the pre-build, then go for writing + map making. But, we also can build the SoZ, which requires a Masonry + Math research line. Or, do you guys think we have a chance for the Philosophy gambit? If so, then we need to start on writing right away. Ah choices, choices :crazyeye:
 
Ummm... it doesnt look like jb is gonna make the 24 hour limit. So im gonna move him to the end so the line up will look like this. Also this helps with SJ Franks restriction of play to tomorrow.

Rik Meleet
BigNHuge<------ Up
SJ Frank<------ On Deck
jb1964<------ In the hole
 
Here is the turns and the save.

Turn [0]- Take a look and contemplate what to do in this situation. The granary would be nice, and so would the settler. I decided to go with the Settler for 2 reasons.
1.) There doesnt seem to be anyone on our island, so we can hold out on the granary for city 2.
2.) A granary is 1gpt. We need the gold for lux tax.

Turn [1]- Lissabon Settler->Spearman. Hmm... how can we build spearmen? Well Sir Pablo of Portugul popped us Bronze Working. Set lux to 0 and can get Ceremonial Burial in 6. Losing 0gpt. Juan will hit a goodie next turn. Curragh moves North. Pablo spots marsh in the distant north.

Turn [2]- Worker roads new mine. Curragh moves. Settler will be there in 3. Jaun gets us the greatest possible thing for us at the moment. Masonry. Yes we can prebuild so we can get either SoZ or a jump to the GL. You guys can decide this. I won't prebuild yet.

Turn [3]- Juan starts heading north up the west coast. Pablo finds more marsh north. Curragh is moving. Nothing special here.

Turn [4]- This turn is boring. Just exploring.

Turn [5]- Found Oporto. Set it to Granary. In 30. Worker to irrigate cow. Meet the Iroquois. They have nothing to trade us. They have a second city. 10 gold and are down 3 techs to us. Soon to be 4. Ceremonial burial in 1. But they will hit a goodie hut 1 turn before us :(.

Turn [6]- They took the hut and hit what it seems to be Warrior Code. Still up 3 techs though. I think we should run a min at writing and go to map making. We are up in techs with our neighbor and we can get 8gpt making it still profitable to run lux tax. Scouts and curragh scout. Worker irrigates cow.

Turn [7]- Curragh finds the Iroquois homeland. Scouts scout. Nothing else special.

Turn [8]- Lissabon Spearman-> Worker. Might switch this. Nothing special here.

Turn [9]- Switch Lissabon to another curragh to scout the east coast. Other then that nothing special.

Turn [10]- Worker to road cow. Another snorzville turn.
BNH-_2750bc.jpg

Thoughts on turns~

I think were in good shape. After the curragh is finished, a settler can be built. Someone can switch the granary in Oporto. Also, someone can switch off the writing. I chose this because we popped Masonry :goodjob: and can prebuild now. We can try for Philosphy but i doubt we could get it. Any Questions/Comments are definantly welcome. :cool:

The Save
 
During my turns, I tried to push for growth above everything else.

I used the food bonus tiles in both cites whenever I could, and left both cities building granaries. Those granaries will complete during next player's turn. Please make sure they are completed before growth (Lisbon is already set up this way)

Exploration: the portion of our continent below the Iroquois holdings are pretty much mapped out, so I sent our scouts to explore further north. The second curragh was a great call :goodjob: . Each of the curraghs contacted a new civ, confirming that we are the tech leader.

Science: During turn 0, I pushed science all the way to 100%, to my surprise, it reduced the researching time of Writing from 46 to 36 turns. How is this possible, on a huge map? I decided to leave research at max, It won't matter in the first 20 turns or so, because of the lux tax that I'm planning to use, but once we get some MPs in place and more cities founded, we should be able to get Writing sooner. Besides, by researching, we get to buy Writing from the AI at a real discount, if it comes to that. And the bottom line is - I think we might have a chance at Philosophy!

One final thought: if you deem it real important to explore the Iroquois land for horses, then turn one of the scouts around.

The Turn Log follows:

[0] 2750
- I thought about switching Lisbon to Granary now, but our brave scout Pablo reports seeing land across the sea, so exploration along the East Coast is an urgent business. Lisbon stays on Curragh.
- I think Oporto will need the MP more than Lisbon, due to its corruption and lack of roads, so I wake up the spear in Lisbon and send him north. Lux to 10%.
- I really wish Big had built two warriors instead of the spear. A regular spear isn't of much use in warfare any ways; we sure could use MPs at both cities.
- Science to max (90%), and I press enter.

[1] 2710
- Lisbon starts on Granary, and is set to work the cattle tile, growth in 4. The new East Coast Curragh heads north.

[2] 2670
- Pablo finds a great stash of Incense on the East Coast. Juan finds an undisturbed hut a knight's move from the Ivory, and we get Wheel! I ctrl-shift-M and looked around, unfortunately, we don't have any horse.

[3] 2630
- Worker finishes roading the cattle, since Lisbon already have enough improvements for a 6-turn warrior/settler factory at size 3-5, I send the worker towards Oporto. Oporto will need much more worker help to become a 4-turn factory though.

[4] 2590
[5] 2550
- Another hut next to Niagara Falls nets 25 gold.
- The West Coast curragh finds a land bridge blocking the northern passage, so he turns west.

[6] 2510
[7] 2470
[8] 2430
- Dark green boarder across the seas! Next turn, our western curragh meets the Aztecs. We are up Masonry, Alphabet, Wheel and CB on them.

[9] 2390
[10] 2350
- The eastern curragh meets the Summerians; they are down the same 4 techs as the Aztecs.

So end the first reign of Prince Francis William of the Portuguese :)
 
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