Boff-05 Izzy Wizzy was unBearable (Izzy,Emp,Cont/Is)

Thanks Liq!

Is there a way to figure out who will and won't attack at certain levels? How do you know %100 that someone won't attack at pleased? Is Pleased the threshold? I check the diplomacy screen frequently, but can fully tell who will and won't do things?

cheers
PD
 
It comes straight out of the code (XML, python or whatever, I don't know where exactly). Probably an article in the War Academy (or at least a thread, cause I remember reading about it).
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9042

has the xml distilled into easily readable form but well.. it's hardly trivial to figure out what the numbers all mean.

Look at the leaders of hannibal and Alex...

Alex has a peace probability of 0/20/80/100

That means every turn each leader randoms if they are going to attack someone. If all is said and done with alex attacking Civ X... that peace probability over rides it Y% of the time..
0% override at annoyed
20% override at Cautious
80% override at Pleased
100% override at Friendly

Look at Hannibal and his numbers are 20/70/100/100
20% override at annoyed
70% override at Cautious
100% override at Pleased
100% override at Friendly

Zara btw is 10/50/90/100 but he is trivial to get to friendly as he has big bonuses for sharing the same religion and an easy to obtain civic (theo)

when zara landed christ tho, he was never going to be our friend.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Well, for the initial stack construction, you'll need to credit Liq and Grover for putting together a balanced and diversified stack.

I think Liq gets all the credit for the composition of the attacking stack. I pretty much just followed the instructions he left.

What I will take personal credit for is leaving that mace home in Seville and starting a Pike (rather than a culture building, as I'd been advised) when I saw Zara with mounted troops probing our border.

But then I also have to take personal blame for erasing a couple cottages. It'll always be a little good and a little bad on my turns, I guess. :)

Grover
 
Yeah the pike build Grover started was win:goodjob:. Also there was an xbow hiding in Santiago I purposely kept out of the offensive stack for "Just in case."

In this game, as much as we mishandled our economy (over extension via time culture blocks + lack of GP generation (forcing the early Profit for shrine really slowed us down + all those settlers) the net gain over the other civs was pure :hammers: and land denial.

To wit, at the cost of early tech we secured our borders with England via barcs first. Sealing barcs's culture dominance early on was the death knell for Churchill as he was forced to expand into obviously suboptimal land.

Our second town was as crippling to Zara as Seville was the perfect distance to combat Ethiopia's insane early culture. He obviously doesn;t have much land up there past Gondar and his capital judging by the demographics. The fact alex managed to capture Gondar means Greece is pushing zara from the west pretty hard too.

As for Hannibal, Madrid 's shrine based culture was enough to seal him off into that water based land with no effort on our part.

So basically that means we have an insane production advantage over the remaining civs we know. Once Hannibal is crippled, it's time to rollover those two fools and evacuate the continent of their presence.

Once Barcs finishes the heroic epic, that town will be pushing out 3 promo Trebs every 3-4 turns with the option to actually build other troops.

Santiago is currently able to push out a 4-5 turn 16 exp treb... that's one fight from a 4th promo such that doesn;t much matter what tech zara has by the time we come knocking on his door in 30ish turns.

Simply a shame we are losing liberalism, not enough time to get those lovable conqs going before we roll over these fools.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
About the incoming great person... if it's a priest or scientist just embed them into Madrid imo as their bulbs are not going to be useful.

If it's a merchant Embed that too.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9042

has the xml distilled into easily readable form but well.. it's hardly trivial to figure out what the numbers all mean.

Look at the leaders of hannibal and Alex...

Alex has a peace probability of 0/20/80/100

That means every turn each leader randoms if they are going to attack someone. If all is said and done with alex attacking Civ X... that peace probability over rides it Y% of the time..
0% override at annoyed
20% override at Cautious
80% override at Pleased
100% override at Friendly

Look at Hannibal and his numbers are 20/70/100/100
20% override at annoyed
70% override at Cautious
100% override at Pleased
100% override at Friendly

Zara btw is 10/50/90/100 but he is trivial to get to friendly as he has big bonuses for sharing the same religion and an easy to obtain civic (theo)

when zara landed christ tho, he was never going to be our friend.

Cheers!
-Liq

Thanks for the link and for providing me some explanation too, I am going to read up a bit, I guess I just dont' know the game well enough yet. I found Monarch challenging, but I can beat it usually. Emp is another ball of wax.

I hope your games continue to be played on Emp and up so I can learn, and hopefully one day join in for a few rounds... I get good vibes here and am learning alot.

When you talk about someone like Catherine being a backstabber, is this XML knowledge as well, or is it simply derived from playing?
 
AS the In game experience stems from the XML describing the Leaders behavior it's both ;)

But looking at the link. Cathy is a) high aggressive, b) loves military, and has c) the 0/20/80/100 set of peace prob. Additional you can easily rack up diplo-mali with close borders. Contrary to Alex she does give much same-war-boni so it is quite likely for her to join you in one war and attack you in the next especially as she despises weak Leaders (thats the worse/better rank modifier in the guide)
 
Peace probability is just one facet of a leader's possibility though is a nice one when the leader is x/y/100/100, as it can simply be distilled into a "never going to attack at pleased"

To give an idea how complex the overall thinking about "when to go to war", code god DanF drew up a chart of Do_war

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84

Keep in mind it's ugly! Bookmark it now and reread it every few weeks.

Cathy is renown for being fast and loose while leveraging her traits of creative/imperial. She will open borders and play nice at really bad relations (if only to sneak a settler though) and then turn around and invade when on good terms. Play enough games next to her and you never needed the xml to tell you what a backstabber Cathy is:lol:

Cheers!
-Liq
 
I had a look at the save, and this looks really hard. We have way too few units that are not vulnerable to xbows/muskets. I am quite certain our stack cannot take Carthage, which should have a castle by now... :sad: any advice?
 
Attack the city after bombardment with trebs and cats to weaken the defence? Hannibal can't have a huge amount of troops left. A CR III maceman would have reasonable odds against a new musket or crossbow if damaged.
 
I'm not sure what the problem is. Hadrumetum had way more troops than Hannibal is likely to have left. Just take it slow and let the troops heal in Zaragoza first. If necessary, we have plenty of production to divert to reinforcements on this front, especially since we got peace with the two knuckleheads.

BTW, any castle is no match for enough accuracy Trebs.

EDIT:

Ask Silver to play a few more turns? :)

lol, that's always a possible solution, but I thought others wanted in on the beatdown :p.
 
Liq votes silver finishes the beat down as well... hehe lets see..

The first town silver rolled over had Hannibal at a higher raw power than us with a castle in place... it's razed with total loses... 2 suicide cats?:crazyeye:


WTH Silver? :crazyeye:

Now Hannibal is down 2 more towns and was milked 2x great generals (with gimped siege exp hogging the gg progress) with a loss of ... 4 total trebs from bad rolls and who the hell cares axes.

He's at what, a 1.7 relative power with no production left to make more troops?

WTH Silver?:crazyeye:

Silver just made what looked horrible underdog into a complete romp... plus he got a great general and free gold from alex and zara while doing all this.

Liq votes Silver for Despot.

Oh and might as well go Nationalism for next tech... gunpowder gets us nowhere immediately.

Oh make the super medic into a chariot... seems we can still build those haha.


Cheers!
-Liq
 
Alright, let me clean up the mess so you guys can do some peaceful work, lol...
 
1300AD (280):

Ok... So I've been voted to finish what I've started instead of rudely handing a situation to someone else :p.

Well, whip panic is over now, so revolting back to caste system to mass hire scientists...

Well, the good thing about resuming one's turnset is that you get incentive to check through all the cities again and fix your :smoke:, so I'll go and do that now...

Madrid is pissed off and I have it building a Uni :smoke:. I dial a colosseum, and move work off a coast tile to another scientist. Still pissed, but only for 6 more turns! I wake up the general here and send him to Santiago, where we will build a Chariot for a supermedic.

Barc just got a Treb dialed, I refer to Liq's post and dial up HE here for more :hammer: goodness. We are stagnant and that is fine...

Seville is no longer under threat, so canceling its longbow. We need culture here, so dial up a Hindu Monastery. Serves the dual purpose of somewhat boosting our science too.

Cordoba working on a mace, and I'll let it finish before we go after a market.

Toledo already ON a market, so that's fine...

I temporarily cancel the Treb at Santiago to dial a Stable.

Salamanca needs more cottages, that's all. We're in good shape in this town.

Murcia is earmarked for cottage conversion, so I need to grab some workers and pave over the watermills and forests. Production was good, but we lead in production even without these sad sacks of cities, while our commerce is bad.

Valencia is in development right now. I need to figure out how we get food here, but it likely involves paving over forests here too, yay...

Leptis is stagnant because a governor hired an artist, that's fine since we need the fish.

Zaragoza is basically new, so going to let it grow before hiring an artist and stuff.

Kerkouane is still in revolt, so whatever.


I grab a few longbows and a Crossbow from Seville and set them towards Zaragoza...

Lib is in 12 at an unsustainable -49gpt, so expect it to get worse... It's still important for Free Speech though, so we're going to get it and perhaps use it as trade bait.

Whack End Turn.

1305AD (281):

Hannibal converts out of Hindu to Taoism, so he hates us more now. Nice...

Various workers and such running around, and we are starting to get rid of forests for cottages. Not all of them mind you, but many.

1310AD (282):

Churchill discovers Edu, so he is on Lib too in 13 turns. Man, warring kills the GNP :p.

1315AD (283):

The "enemy" is spotted near Zaragoza.

set6zaragoza.jpg


lolol

A mace is done in Cordoba, so let's get back to building infrastructures. A market is up due to good amounts of commerce. That, and we are nearing happy caps anyways...

Santiago finished a stable, so dial for the medic chariot!

Zaragoza grew, so hiring that artist.

1320AD (284):

We roll REALLY BAD on the GP...

set6greatspy.jpg


Considering the only types that showed up were scientist, merchant, and prophet... Clearly some awful spy pollution from the auto-governor running a spy for one turn, sigh...

Well, that's useless, so fortifying the idiot for a bit...

So, the enemy stack is now in our territory and ready to be WTH pwned...

First up is the maceman, who gets pasted by our crossbow.
There is another mace, and all our maces are CR maces, so going to burn off some of those axes...

Holy WTH RNG gods...

set6axeroll.jpg


We win 4XP for that axe, omg...

A pike is next, and we kill it with an axe.
Last up is the Treb and it dies to a HA. Ok great.

Monastery done in Murcia, in keeping with Infra, I dial for a Library.

1325AD (285):

Hannibal on Nationalism in 10 turns now, WTH indeed...

The stack is ready to move, so off we go and incur more supply penalty.

We finished our Supermedic, so attach the GG and give him the outlined promos.

set6supermedic.jpg


With Santiago done that Chariot, going to dial for a Temple as we are pushing caps.

Salamanca done a Library, go for a Monastery.

1330AD (286):

Spot Utica.

set6utica.jpg


Looks like we're going to win another holy city!

Barc finished the HE, so back on Trebs!

1335AD (287):

Our stack gets attacked by a Cat and 2 Muskets. It turns out... it was Hannibal wasting a Cat and 2 muskets, lol.

We pull up beside Utica this turn.

Hindu Temple done in Santiago. Going to go for a Colosseum as our happy cap is a bit uncomfortable here still...

Valencia finished a Hindu Monastery, and I randomly choose a Library...

1340AD (288):

Utica loses its defenses this turn. Thanks to two Trebs.

4 Trebs go in and all withdraw.
Of course, then I send in a Cat with good odds and it dies! Oh well, it was only a cat!

CR3 mace kills the Crossbow that killed our cat.
Cecil is up next to swat a longbowman.
Next up is a wounded CR3 mace, as I want to win some XP.
Another wounded CR3 mace cleans out a Longbow.
Last defender is a Musket... That's pretty depressing, a beat longbow is tougher than a beat musket. Ok, well send in a Pikeman and it goes flawless!

set6uticacaptured.jpg


We move in a Garrison Longbow, and everything else covers.

Murcia done a Library, Market next for the happy.

Utica has a surviving forge, so one less critical building we need. I dial a Granary.

1345AD (289):

What does this mean?

set6civilunrest.jpg


Is this that event where some civ can choose to do damage to you? Well, the mine near this city blows up, so I guess it is.

Ok, well that means that city is out of revolt, and starving. We hire all artists with the population to pop borders.

Some Crossbow shows up on flat land, so we attack him with a HA with decent odds. Ok, we lose, but the Crossbow is almost dead, so clean him up with another HA and rejoin the stack.

Well, we are overlooking Carthage now...

set6carthage.jpg


Yes this is really "cause for concern"... Gassed is gassed.

Treb done in Barc, dial another.

Salamanca finished its Hindu Monastery, so uh... Market.

1350AD (290):

Stack piles up to Carthage this turn...

Cordoba finished a market, so dial a Hindu Monastery.

1355AD (291):

Bomb Carthage to 84% this turn, letting some of the siege heal.

Toledo finished a Market, and uh... dial a Uni.

1360AD (292):

set6liberalism.jpg


Nationalism is 26 turns, but that's likely to be helped.

Ok, time to broker!

set6churchillguilds.jpg


set6zaramap.jpg


And from the map that is basically a complete world map, we see that the last two Civs are France and Arabia. So Saladin and some French goof...

Carthage down to 62% this turn, all Trebs healed next turn.

We immediately drop down to Free Speech. Nationalism in 24, losing 29gpt, lol.

Barc done a Treb, dial another.

Damn, we popped a gold at Santiago, hurting it's production a bit, lol.

1365AD (293):

Carthage down to 26% this turn :D.

Seville finished a Hindu Monastery, dropping a Mandir here to fight stupid Zara culture.

Santiago Treb finished. Dial a market for the happiness.

1370AD (294):

Pick up Drama and another map from Churchill for Music.

Carthage is zeroed this turn, but going to wait until next turn to bring the full force of Trebs on this sorry city.

Barc done a Treb, dialing a Theatre. It just occurred to me to pile some more culture buildings here and push on Nottingham.

Murcia Market finished, dial a Grocer.

1375AD (295):

Time's up for Carthage.

set6carthagesiege.jpg


CR3 Treb has 78% odds against a LB and withdraws... Barely... At 0.4 strength, lol.
Next CR3 Treb has 77% odds against a Musket. Why did the musket not defend first, WTH? Well, we withdraw again! Down to 0.2 strength this time, wow those were close rolls.
Next up is 87% odds on a CR2/Acc Treb, we withdraw. 1.0 strength left, not a huge deal as this is the last stop.
Next Treb has 91% odds and withdraws. 3.3 strength left, odds getting better.
Next Treb 93% against a musket and gets out of there.
Last Treb 98% against a Crossbow and flees too.
We have one Cat left, 66% odds against a pike, so throwing it in. Wow it ran away too.

So siege goes 7 for 7 including the pathetic cat.

C1/CR3 Mace is up and butchers a Crossbow flawless.
CR3 Mace against a mace, going for the next promo, and gets it against a mace.
Next CR3 Mace also beats on a Mace, this time flawless.
We have a new maceman, he's only CR2, but it doesn't stop him from flawlessly ownerizing a longbow.

All maces accounted for, so Cecil going next, and beats down a Longbow flawless.
Sending in a CR3 Axe against a pike and we win flawless.
Rest of the axes are far from next CR ranking, so not using them. Instead, charging pikeman. First Pike kills a Musket.
Next Pike flawless pokes a longbow to pieces.
Last Pike gets a flawless win against a Musket.

There's one more unit left in the city that's not a worker or a boat. And it's a pikeman. Ok, C2 Crossbow is 1XP away from a Promo, let's go!

set6carthagecapture.jpg


We win a bunch of workers, which get names.

Carthage has an Academy, and a Scotland Yard. Hey, we can actually use that stupid Great Spy that we got! We also win a settled General and Merchant. Critical buildings survived, so we dial for a theatre. Subject to change since this place is rioting...

Uni done in Madrid, so get on a Grocer as this is our cash zone. 3 war anger disappears next turn, so getting back on some grass cottages from specs.

We dial up Hannibal. He won't give us Gunpowder, but we win Banking and his Map for peace.

set6carthagepeace.jpg


Zara and Churchill are both on Nationalism in 10 turns each. We get it in 19 turns. Due to the "Santiago Factor" we have a legit chance at Taj, and our economy will only get better with this new land.

We can probably drop to Free Religion for a while, since the extra XP is going to be largely unnecessary. In fact, I probably should've dropped it earlier...


Total Losses for this turnset. 1 Catapult and 1 Horse Archer.
 

Attachments

Man why so hard on the cats?

Ok you want to play clean up DE? Great pos... er spy can embed in Carthage when it comes out of revolt. :goodjob:


Actually looking over the save, revolting to free religion looks good but be sure to get thowse holy towns on monestaries and spread the faith to madrid to abuse the happys.


Oh and time to shift the mass of troops over to Seville... time to say pay our respects to Zara soon as peeps heal.


Cheers!
-Liq
 
Spy can... Arh! Why do I even care? Why do we always get those useless spies!?!

Can we use him for a GA, perhaps?

I'll look at it tomorrow. What do we want to tech? I am thinking Conqs..!
 
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