Boomers: The Evil Generation!

[Birdjaguar]

You still seem to believe, or at least profess, that such "malignancy" is uniquely European, and not part of other cultures, or just denied opportunity to be pursued by them in such cases. This thinking is delusional, at the most flattering.

The evidence we have would indicate that the Europeans were much better at it than most others. The whys might be up for debate, but otherwise they were unmatched.

 

[Patine]

The evidence we have would indicate that the Europeans were much better at it than most others. The whys might be up for debate, but otherwise they were unmatched.

The evidence is due to opportunity. It's like in nature. A wolf pack or lion pride with overabundance will gorge unnecessarily, even though they're far exceeding their needs, and meat will go to waste. In leaner hunting situations, this will not be the case. "Inherent malignancy" or "inherent nature" on a racial level of that sort is indefensible. Human "races" are, at the core of things, just like cat, horse, cow, or dog breeds, in that humans are polymorphic species (maybe not as extreme in physical difference or attitude as dog breeds, but they are the most diverse of the polymorphic species), but instead of our breeds being differentiating by domestication needs, they became so by adaptation to different climate and physical environs during prehistoric migrations. The point is, racial traits have NO impact, as an inherent quality by nature on behaviours and thought patterns that would not have yet been conceived or relevant in the migration period.

 

[Peuri]

I think of it more as the inability to project power. Populations expand; nature of the beast. In expanding they displace their neighbors; also nature of the beast. The European nations in their malignancy decided that rather than grow naturally against the pressure imposed by their neighbors that they had a right of dominion based in their self proclaimed superiority over all the distant 'savages.' Had they not been stymied in their natural expansion maybe such a grotesque arrogance wouldn't have gotten control of them.

The inability to project power is a good point. The Europeans were unable to project power unto the Muslim world, namely the Turks that seemed poised to conquer the whole of Europe. One reason for the age of discovery was indeed fighting the Turks.

But what does it matter if you kill your neighbour or the guy down the street? Is the morality of murder somehow tied to geographical location of the parties involved? The end result was the same in the Chinese and the European expansion. A people came and took power, and eventually committed cultural and sometimes literal genocide on the conquered. The names of the "original peoples" in a land was lost, and the land now had a new owner. I think the indigenous peoples of Siberia don't much appreciate your absolution of Russian conquests on the terms of geographical closeness.

What makes considering the Other a "savage" in the situation somehow worse, if the end result is extinction anyway? But do you think the Chinese or Japanese considered their conquered peoples in any better or less ethnocentrist terms than the Europeans? The Japanese conceptualized the Ainu as barely human. Same with the Chinese when it came to the Mongols atleast, and at times in terms reminescent of European conceptions of race. Of course this all varies from time to time, and as always there was intermixing, as in the European case too. Dehumanizing the Other has been the norm since for ever.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The evidence is due to opportunity. It's like in nature. A wolf pack or lion pride with overabundance will gorge unnecessarily, even though they're far exceeding their needs, and meat will go to waste. In leaner hunting situations, this will not be the case. "Inherent malignancy" or "inherent nature" on a racial level of that sort is indefensible. Human "races" are, at the core of things, just like cat, horse, cow, or dog breeds, in that humans are polymorphic species (maybe not as extreme in physical difference or attitude as dog breeds, but they are the most diverse of the polymorphic species), but instead of our breeds being differentiating by domestication needs, they became so by adaptation to different climate and physical environs during prehistoric migrations. The point is, racial traits have NO impact, as an inherent quality by nature on behaviours and thought patterns that would not have yet been conceived or relevant in the migration period.

Of course it is not race. Race has nothing to do with it. There are mean, nasty, selfish people everywhere. Europeans had two things: opportunity and firepower. Their reward was power, wealth and control. The fact that they saw themselves as superior was/is a human trait found all over the world. In 1500 Europeans had the firepower and naval prowess to back up such claims.

I'm quite confused as to what your thoughts on races is. You post seems to contradict itself.

 

[Farm Boy]

Great question and nope. But perhaps the answer lies not in consuming but producing for a demand-depressed economy, compounding over the years.

So, we should have greater want?

 

[inthesomeday]

An imposition on the planet, as judged by the planet?

As judged by us obviously. In the hope we’d find some way to practice self restraint.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The inability to project power is a good point. The Europeans were unable to project power unto the Muslim world, namely the Turks that seemed poised to conquer the whole of Europe. One reason for the age of discovery was indeed fighting the Turks.

But what does it matter if you kill your neighbour or the guy down the street? Is the morality of murder somehow tied to geographical location of the parties involved? The end result was the same in the Chinese and the European expansion. A people came and took power, and eventually committed cultural and sometimes literal genocide on the conquered. The names of the "original peoples" in a land was lost, and the land now had a new owner. I think the indigenous peoples of Siberia don't much appreciate your absolution of Russian conquests on the terms of geographical closeness.

What makes considering the Other a "savage" in the situation somehow worse, if the end result is extinction anyway? But do you think the Chinese or Japanese considered their conquered peoples in any better or less ethnocentrist terms than the Europeans? The Japanese conceptualized the Ainu as barely human. Same with the Chinese when it came to the Mongols atleast, and at times in terms reminescent of European conceptions of race. Of course this all varies from time to time, and as always there was intermixing, as in the European case too. Dehumanizing the Other has been the norm since for ever.

The inability to project power was over each other. After centuries of developing their viciousness among themselves they unleashed it on the rest of the world. Population pressure driving expanding neighbors was familiar, but the European "here we are to colonize, and no genocide doesn't offend our morality as long as it's us doing the killing" was new to most parts of the world.

As to those "lost" people that got subsumed into China, they may have lost ethnic identity, but they weren't subjected to genocide. Expansion works that way. The "slaughter them all and make space for our Euro-purity" mindset was unique. And, for the record, Russians are indeed a fine example of that European mindset and the indigenous Asians they displaced in their empire building paid the same price as the other "savages."

 

[Patine]

Of course it is not race. Race has nothing to do with it. There are mean, nasty, selfish people everywhere. Europeans had two things: opportunity and firepower. Their reward was power, wealth and control. The fact that they saw themselves as superior was/is a human trait found all over the world. In 1500 Europeans had the firepower and naval prowess to back up such claims.

I'm quite confused as to what your thoughts on races is. You post seems to contradict itself.

So, now, are "Europeans," given your usage of the term, another "collective guilt" bloc demographic like "the Boomers" or the phantom, non-coherently existing conspiracy delusion that is "the Leftists," and other such groups brought up on this thread, and is my intelligence to be insulted all the further by adding another one to the list?

 

[Broken_Erika]

Feelthy Homo-Sapiens!

 

[Patine]

The inability to project power was over each other. After centuries of developing their viciousness among themselves they unleashed it on the rest of the world. Population pressure driving expanding neighbors was familiar, but the European "here we are to colonize, and no genocide doesn't offend our morality as long as it's us doing the killing" was new to most parts of the world.

As to those "lost" people that got subsumed into China, they may have lost ethnic identity, but they weren't subjected to genocide. Expansion works that way. The "slaughter them all and make space for our Euro-purity" mindset was unique. And, for the record, Russians are indeed a fine example of that European mindset and the indigenous Asians they displaced in their empire building paid the same price as the other "savages."

I guess that explains why Kublai Khaqan, someone from that region and time, and NOT a European, has the record for the biggest deliberate, malignant genocide of civilians in one endeavour, for one purpose, at one general time - around 30 million Chinese civilians - roughly the total of the Holocaust and the Armenian, Cambodian, and Rwandan Genocides times three - in recorded history - because genocide was practically unknown in such parts until European colonials arrived. :S

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't know that I would consider enslaved and raped into submission a particularly valid defense of multi culti comparative virtue. When that happened instead of simple naked slaughter, which was too.

 

[Arwon]

There are a few threads here about 9/11. For most of us old enough to remember, that will be the milestone where everyone remembers where they were and what they were doing when they found out.

For me it's the Melbourne Storm cheating the salary cap and being stripped of multiple premiership titles, I'll always remember being at work when that news broke

 

[Patine]

I don't know that I would consider enslaved and raped into submission a particularly valid defense of multi culti comparative virtue. When that happened instead of simple naked slaughter, which was too.

Certainly, that was a favourite tactic of the Medieval Ummayad Caliphate.

 

[Arwon]

Wait what on earth happened to this thread, I was in here all ready to complain about baby boomers driving up house prices to unaffordable levels through tax policies that favour rampant speculation, and ruining football with their cack-handed attempts to enforce nostalgic notions of what the game should look like.

But here instead there's a bunch of folks trying to whatabout and abstract the contemporary legacy of European colonialism into oblivion?????

 

[Birdjaguar]

So, now, are "Europeans," given your usage of the term, another "collective guilt" bloc demographic like "the Boomers" or the phantom, non-coherently existing conspiracy delusion that is "the Leftists," and other such groups brought up on this thread, and is my intelligence to be insulted all the further by adding another one to the list?

Some of the people who lived in Europe in the 1500s took their sailing ships and went out into the world to get rich. In the process they subjugated less powerful peoples, often in a cruel manner. You seem to be the one promoting "collective guilt blocks"; not me. I am pretty much against any such appellations as I have tried to demonstrate.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Wait what on earth happened to this thread, I was in here all ready to complain about baby boomers driving up house prices to unaffordable levels through rampant speculation, and ruining football with their cack-handed attempts to enforce nostalgic notions of what the game should look like.

But here instead there's a bunch of folks trying to whatabout and abstract the contemporary legacy of European colonialism into oblivion?????

Please save us from ourselves. Get us back to housing and football.

 

[Farm Boy]

Something can be awful without being novel. Horror doesn't need hipster cred. Seriously.

Oooooh, dat's raycyst, or something, somehow.

 

[Estebonrober]

I think we should colonize Mars next! Someone bring some blankets! >.>

 

[Patine]

Please save us from ourselves. Get us back to housing and football.

I live in a bachelor suite rental apartment and do NOT watch football (or any other sport). We're doing fine moving further beyond! (Plus Ultra, Spain's national motto )

 

[metalhead]

Peak Boomerism is inventing participation trophies and then complaining that kids get participation trophies.