Boosting the Arabs

[Gucumatz]

the difference is that the Arabs get 480g/cycle and the Dutch only get 240g/cycle (assuming just one lux).

to make up the difference, the dutch would have to work 8gpt worth of tiles, which is a waste of 4 pop just to catch up to the Arabs.

Trading both your luxes though as Arab tends to be much more limited than anything. You have to remain above - 10 unhappiness so there is still a limit on how many "double" luxes one can trade, especially on higher levels. The Dutch UA is much more powerful overall.

 

[vonbach]

I'd rather see the Germans boosted.

 

[Snoopaloop]

The Dutch were confirmed to have a Unique ability which would allow them to trade ALL of their luxuries and still get the happiness bonuses as if they still had one of them (even if they dont). Meaning you get one incense, you can trade that for a spare lux elsewhere without any building and have +8 happiness quick.

With a Bazaar you still would have to build the building. The Dutch UA is already confirmed helping to add to a feeling that the Arabs are going to be underpowered if they remain the same.

Show me where this is confirmed exactly. I have not heard anything like you have stated yet, and I've been trying to keep up.

 

[Gucumatz]

Here you go

http://translate.google.de/translat...lobal.de/angetestet/civilization-5-gods-kings

"special ability is on the East India Company - a commercial company can bring its own with the help of the Dutch luxury goods in the stores, without loss of satisfaction"

And I believe another article somewhere also discussed it, can't find it atm.

 

[GenjiKhan]

How about a faster or a wider religion spreading to boost arabia then? That's might fit very well with their historic of spreading empire size and spreading religion as well .

 

[Snoopaloop]

Here you go

http://translate.google.de/translat...lobal.de/angetestet/civilization-5-gods-kings

"special ability is on the East India Company - a commercial company can bring its own with the help of the Dutch luxury goods in the stores, without loss of satisfaction"

I"m sorry I don't see how you can confirm you know exactly how the dutch ua works with one vague sentence that, because of the translation I can't piece together myself. Maybe it makes more sense in what-ever language it was originally in.

I still think this topic is jumping the gun. I don't see any changes that need to be made.

 

[Gucumatz]

I"m sorry I don't see how you can confirm you know exactly how the dutch ua works with one vague sentence that, because of the translation I can't piece together myself. Maybe it makes more sense in what-ever language it was originally in.

I still think this topic is jumping the gun. I don't see any changes that need to be made.

Its in German, I could translate the actual passage for you, its just that thats the easier version for non German Speakers. There is another article also elsewhere that clarifies the ability as well.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I"m sorry I don't see how you can confirm you know exactly how the dutch ua works with one vague sentence that, because of the translation I can't piece together myself. Maybe it makes more sense in what-ever language it was originally in.

Loss of satisfaction seems pretty clearly to be loss of happiness. I.e., you can trade a luxury without losing happiness. I think there's either another article or a less confusingly translated version somewhere that I based this on.

 

[nokmirt]

I agree with Louis XXIV.

The Dutch can trade their luxuries away without the building right away. The Camel Archer needs a horse and to be honest while a decent UU it is outclassed in many aspects by other units. The only place where it is truly better is in multiplayer than the keshik. But even then, MANY other units are preferred over them for good reason (in multi).

Their Unique ability is outclassed by the Dutch and Inca. As a whole the Dutch seem to do a lot better than the Arabs can and same goes for the Inca.

As a whole the Arabs are being undercut for sure and I would be surprised if they don't upgrade them.

Like someone above I would say Arabia should be upgraded in a religious way. I was also thinking they should add a camel resource to the game.

As far as the camel archer unit itself, it seems very versatile. I really enjoy using it. The unit is great for getting to enemy ranged units, destroying injured units, and attacking cities as a supplement to your other siege units. Although, it does receive a -10% penalty when attacking cities. The mobility is good enough to get them in range of cities for an often times important, city weakening volley.

The thing is I was wondering if your playing as Arabia, and you befriend a militaristic city state that has horses, do they ever spawn you knights? In my current game I would love it if that were the case. A few knights and camel archers protecting my flanks would be excellent indeed.

Now the interesting thing about Arabia is that it is quite easy to stockpile luxury resources. Its easy to suck up a neighbor or neighbors' gold if there is oppurtunity to sell them needed luxuries. At one point I had all my immediate neighbors broke. And thats playing on king. Lately though, pickings have been much slimmer the AI seems to spreading out so fast with these huge empires, and gold tends to be in much shorter supply. For the Arabs to play to their strength gold is needed.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, they'll spawn you Knights. I've had CS spawn the non-UU to my UU before.

Of course, I found it annoying when it happened, but that's a good situation for it.

 

[Buccaneer]

Yes, in my Arabian game I had militaristic city-states spawn several Knights for me, not to mention Cavs and Mech Infantry too. They came in handy when Horsemen were too beat up. I had 7 Camel Archers that completely took out 5 civs on two continents all by themselves (plus a melee unit or two). They were highly promoted, with most getting to Logistics and they were still easily defeating Riflemen and Cannons. While Keshiks have better movements, Camel's 3 mp were fine too in surrounding cities. Plus as Mad said, I found them to pack a better punch than Keshiks did. I still stand by Camels being the second most powerful UU in the game.

 

[nokmirt]

Yeah, they'll spawn you Knights. I've had CS spawn the non-UU to my UU before.

Of course, I found it annoying when it happened, but that's a good situation for it.

I could use two knights thats all I'd ask for.

Yes, in my Arabian game I had militaristic city-states spawn several Knights for me, not to mention Cavs and Mech Infantry too. They came in handy when Horsemen were too beat up. I had 7 Camel Archers that completely took out 5 civs on two continents all by themselves (plus a melee unit or two). They were highly promoted, with most getting to Logistics and they were still easily defeating Riflemen and Cannons. While Keshiks have better movements, Camel's 3 mp were fine too in surrounding cities. Plus as Mad said, I found them to pack a better punch than Keshiks did. I still stand by Camels being the second most powerful UU in the game.

I second that. In my game I have too many crossbows, which are great for city garrisons. I need to build more camel archers for my main army, and send extra crossbows to garrison duty.

 

[MARDUK80]

I've thought a religious boost with deserts would be appropriate and unique. I heard it said that "Islam is the desert".

I'd give Arabs some kind of Faith bonus too. They would deserve it. Perhaps +Faith form Oasis and/or desert tiles with a resource.

Or Gold bonus from defeating enemy units in desert/road tiles, likewise small gold amount from each ancient ruin discovered might be appropriate. Kind of in legacy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Baba

 

[guczy]

I don't see why the dutch UA would be better than the bazaar, the former is only better if you only have 1 lux (dutch can trade away both, arabs need to keep one for happiness), but when you have 2 or more lux the bazaar becomes better and better. At 2 of the same lux with the dutch you can only trade away 2 while with the arabs you can trade away 3. At 3 lux it is 5-3 for the arabs. And as others have said: the camel archer is ossum

 

[apocalypse105]

With diplomacy improved the bazar becomes even more powerfull so they are as good as they are

So about the dutch ability is it comfirmed ?

If so I can agree the arabia need a extra other then the bazar.

I would say a religious one

 

[Scaramanga]

Introduction of religion into the game implies changes to Arabia methinks.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Introduction of religion into the game implies changes to Arabia methinks.

THis is one thing, but also heard somewhere that you will now have foreign trade routes. This makes the Arabs a lot more powerful. But I think they should get a faith bonus as well.
The Dutch are also the only civ so far that can compete with the Arabs historically when it comes to trade, so it makes sense they should get the bonus.

 

[bhavv]

Trade Caravans could maybe get buffed to give +2 gold and +1 faith per domestic trade route, that would put them up to par with other civs.

 

[Babri]

In addition to current UA benefits, they can get ''Religion can spread 20 tiles away instead of 10 & religion spreads 50% faster in this way''. This would reflect the rapid expansion of Islam even in areas like Indonesia & Malaysia through muslim merchants. Today Islam is the fastest spreading religion even though the missionary style spread of religion has gotten a bit obsolete.
As far as comparing bazar with Dutch UA, bazar is still better in the long run. Let me show u how :-
Both Dutch & Arabs get 3 sugars. Arabs can sell 5 & keep the happiness benefit while Dutch will only be able to sell 3 at max while keeping the happiness benefit. Some may argue that bazar needs hammer investment but the point is that u r going to build this low tier building in almost all cities so that doesn't matter much later on.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Are they that underpowered? Some of my most successful games have been with the Arabs . . .