[RD] Boris Johnson Can No Longer Vote for President

[BvBPL]

Boris Johnson has surrendered his United States citizenship. The move follows a number of rows between Johnson and the United State’s tax authority, the IRS. Johnson, a citizen of the United States by his birth, had to pay a hefty capital gains tax to the IRS. This because the United States, unlike nearly every other country on the face of the Earth, taxes based upon citizenship, not residency. As some posters are no doubt aware, US citizens living abroad still owe taxes to the United States, even when they’ve been taxed locally.

A few years back, the United States issued a law called FATCA that requires banks in other countries to report to the IRS information on bank accounts held by US parties, including citizens living abroad. This law has been criticized as being a jurisdictional overreach by the United States, but this criticism hasn’t stopped other nations from implanting similar schemes like CDOT and CRS.

 

[Ajidica]

Aww, no chance of BoJo teaching us how to floor little Japanese kids in rugby.

 

[Cutlass]

 

[EnglishEdward]

It seems another instance of there being one law for companies, but another law for individuals.

I.e. Boris Johnson paid taxes to USA merely because he failed to go through the usual fraudulent
rigmorale of setting up an entirely spurious company structure in which cases the capital gains taxes
would only have been due to the US IRS upon rebating the profit to the USA which would be never.

 

[Bamspeedy]

He wants to vote in an election, get airlifted out of the country by marines (extremely unlikely to happen in the UK but if he was visiting a third world country he may need it), and not need a visa to travel to the US, then he should pay taxes. Good for him if he thinks those things aren't worth what he was expected to pay in taxes.

 

[Camikaze]

The IRS's overreach is pretty extreme, and makes it very difficult for Americans living abroad. e.g. a lot of banks will refuse deposits from US citizens, as taking deposits would trigger IRS reporting obligations.

It's also fairly bizarre on a more individual level that a lot of forms you might encounter in finance, in situations which you would think have nothing to do with this foreign country, have some sort of 'are you a US citizen' box, specifically because of the IRS tentacles that local branches of multinationals are forced to seek to escape.

 

[EnglishEdward]

He wants to vote in an election, get airlifted out of the country by marines (extremely unlikely to happen in the UK but if he was visiting a third world country he may need it), and not need a visa to travel to the US, then he should pay taxes. Good for him if he thinks those things aren't worth what he was expected to pay in taxes.

Why do you assume he wants any of those?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Why do you assume he wants any of those?

Those are benefits that I could think of being a US citizen when you are living abroad. Don't want those benefits and don't like paying taxes, give up your citizenship.

 

[AdrienIer]

Those are benefits that I could think of being a US citizen when you are living abroad. Don't want those benefits and don't like paying taxes, give up your citizenship.

WTF ? The US gets taxes from non-citizen living in the US. In every country that I know of you only pay taxes if you live there. It's extremely unfair to ask someone to pay double taxes because he's living abroad

 

[Bamspeedy]

I think it's unfair to vote in the elections if you aren't living here and also not paying taxes either.

You should know by now, the US doesn't care what other countries do.

How about a compromise? When living abroad you don't pay taxes, but then you can't vote either. No, that would require an amendement to the constitution. Don't want to pay the taxes? Don't be a citizen.

 

[AdrienIer]

So your position is that if you're American and living abroad you should pay your taxes twice. Wow.

 

[Bamspeedy]

So your position is that if you're American and living abroad you should pay your taxes twice. Wow.

I have a feeling what that person pays in taxes to another country does not get sent to the US government. They are a net drain to the US government if they use any of the benefits but don't contribute to the US tax system (or even to the US economy if they aren't living here to buy things).

 

[AdrienIer]

Same thing happens with non US citizen living in the US : they pay taxes in the US but not in their home country. Overall I'm pretty sure that's a net benefit for the US.

 

[Bamspeedy]

How other countries decide to handle it, that is their choice.

I suppose there should be some limits on it. Someone living overseas for 6 months or 1 year is not the same situation as someone that hasn't stepped on US soil in over 30 years, but expects the same protections and benefits. I don't value 'dual citizenships' very high. Unless required for career or something, pick one.

 

[warpus]

This because the United States, unlike nearly every other country on the face of the Earth, taxes based upon citizenship, not residency.

I mean, the U.S. needs to fund its fleet of giant aircraft carriers somehow.

I wonder if that law exists to dissuade people from emigrating from the U.S. Maybe it was put in place at a time when immigration was important and they didn't want people leaving?

 

[Bamspeedy]

I mean, the U.S. needs to fund its fleet of giant aircraft carriers somehow.

I wonder if that law exists to dissuade people from emigrating from the U.S. Maybe it was put in place at a time when immigration was important and they didn't want people leaving?

Just because it's old doesn't mean it's bad (you can make other arguments against it than how old it is).

The taxation of Americans abroad was designed to deter draft dodgers who fled the country to avoid fighting the Civil War more than 150 years ago.

Most can use the taxes they pay in the foreign country as a credit against taxes they may have to pay in the US. Often this results in no extra taxes, but they are still required to file a tax return.

And not to say there aren't problems with it:

Take the differences in the way countries handle the taxation of primary homes. The U.S. demands payment of capital gains tax on the sale of a home; it also gives a $250,000-$500,000 deduction and a break on mortgage interest payments while the taxpayer owns the home. In the U.K., there's no capital gains tax when selling, but there's a large purchase tax on the price of a new home -- and no break on mortgage interest. As London Mayor Boris Johnson discovered, a U.S. citizen who moves within London's property bubble will pay both taxes and get none of the breaks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-04-24/end-the-american-expat-tax

 

[warpus]

Just because it's old doesn't mean it's bad (you can make other arguments against it than how old it is).

I mean, I didn't say it's bad because it's old. I was trying to figure out why such a law exists, and historical accident was my first thought.

Obviously it's bad for other reasons.

 

[metalhead]

WTF ? The US gets taxes from non-citizen living in the US. In every country that I know of you only pay taxes if you live there. It's extremely unfair to ask someone to pay double taxes because he's living abroad

They don't pay double taxes, foreign taxes paid are credited against U.S. taxes owed. In most countries, this will result in the individual owing no tax.

 

[JollyRoger]

The first $100,000 of foreign income is excluded from taxation plus a housing exclusion on top of that.