shyuhe
Deity
Got it. Will post a plan tonight (I hope).
born losers
- Thread starter babybluepants
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No, I just forgot. He's obviously welcome to join, but hasn't posted yet as far as I remember.it seems bbp removed him from the roster
Game looks good. We're a touch short on units, and I'm kinda surprised we're not getting hammered from all that jungle in the south. There should be some archers moving in by now.
I'd finish that warrior before the mine completes. It's nice to have some cheap units, and spears suck even more than usual since we're playing Greece. The one in Sparta can't complete in time, though.Pottery, then Writing? I might have even skipped Pottery here. We have extremely high food at low pop, and we're CRE/PHI. I'd get libraries fast, rather than granaries.
Where are we settling next? Clam/spices with overlap on corn and pig looks pretty good. We could steal the other two tiles from Athens and Sparta fairly often early on.
Need to get scouting in the south somehow. At the moment, I only see 4 cities, albeit really great ones.
^Just because we have granaries available doesn't mean we have to make them before libraries. Researching pottery first saves beakers overall. We won't be building either one right now anyway.
I'd rather stay compact and settle around our capital for now with Ragnar being in the game. But I agree that scouting is urgent now that we have metal.
I'd rather stay compact and settle around our capital for now with Ragnar being in the game. But I agree that scouting is urgent now that we have metal.
shyuhe
Deity
Sorry forgot I was up 
Tentative tech plan is pottery--writing. Build a settler in Athens and settle 1S of the clams?
I'll try to whip a phalanx in Sparta to send south to explore (and defend against barbs).
Tentative tech plan is pottery--writing. Build a settler in Athens and settle 1S of the clams?
I'll try to whip a phalanx in Sparta to send south to explore (and defend against barbs).
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Sorry forgot I was up
Tentative tech plan is pottery--writing. Build a settler in Athens and settle 1S of the clams?
I'll try to whip a phalanx in Sparta to send south to explore (and defend against barbs).
sounds good. I think we will need another worker soon too. I'd finish the warrior too in the cap.
shyuhe
Deity
Sorry for the long delay. I played a short set through writing. Not much has changed. I had quite a few barbs encroaching on our territory but we fought them off with a phalanx and spear (whip overflow).
Our budding empire:
We have lots of jungle to the south so I've queued another worker in Sparta (and to prevent growing into unhappiness since it already has stacked whip anger). Athens is completing a settler that can go settle the fish to the NW while our explorers look for suitable sites in the jungle.
Our budding empire:
We have lots of jungle to the south so I've queued another worker in Sparta (and to prevent growing into unhappiness since it already has stacked whip anger). Athens is completing a settler that can go settle the fish to the NW while our explorers look for suitable sites in the jungle.
Until we get IW we don't need many more workers, I prefer getting out another 1-2 units, for barb safety, eventual AI DOW and scouting. I assume that settler is for the pig/fish site?
I think we should go straight IW and not gamble on trading for anything with aesth when we only know 2 AIs, one of them being a notorious warmonger. We really need IW so let's go get it I say.
Lymond is up, bbp on deck!
I think we should go straight IW and not gamble on trading for anything with aesth when we only know 2 AIs, one of them being a notorious warmonger. We really need IW so let's go get it I say.
Lymond is up, bbp on deck!
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got it:
bit o' plan here
question: should we be putting chops in libraries, like the chop that is about to happen in Corinth?
1) Tech: Switch to IW...not sure where to go next (Aesths?, possibly MC?)...I may not get to the next tech anyway.
2) Athens: I'm inclined not to whip the Settler at this point, but rather slow build and chop it. Also, put a chop into a Library which should finish it. I'll chop the GH next to the corn and mine it. Athens can grow on Phalanxes.
3) Sparta: Now this is a good whipping city. I would switch to Library now to grow to 4 or 5, possibly stealing pigs for a turn or two and then whip worker into Library. This city will run scientists when Library finishes. We might get another worker out of here when IW completes.
4) Corinth: I'm inclined to put the chop into a Library and then whip granary later into Library to finish. Or put 2 chops into Library. Possibly put a barracks here as well. Worker will chop hill and mine it, then move to new city.
5) I would place new city 1NE of Pigs. Improve pigs and chop or whip WB. OF into Library, build Granary
6) I'll try to scout the general area a bit with Phalanx and Spear but not to far so as to keep spawnbusting up. I'd like to see what we have to the West a bit.
7) As for IW, I'll run binary until our first Library is in and then up the slider.
I'd really like to road to the new city and chop that forest we settle on, but don't think we have the worker turns for it.
My assumption is that we want to get to a point of running scientists in most cities initially once Libs are up, at least until we have the ability to really improve the land. Sparta appears to be the obvious long term GP farm though.
Also, should we consider starting another settler at some point in case a) a nice spot presents itself b) we decide to gift a city to Ragtastic
edit: May be a good idea to send the Spear in Athens out into the field as well or at least keep it on the edge of Corinth or Spartan borders. We should be fine in Athens for happy until a build a new Phalanx
bit o' plan here
question: should we be putting chops in libraries, like the chop that is about to happen in Corinth?
1) Tech: Switch to IW...not sure where to go next (Aesths?, possibly MC?)...I may not get to the next tech anyway.
2) Athens: I'm inclined not to whip the Settler at this point, but rather slow build and chop it. Also, put a chop into a Library which should finish it. I'll chop the GH next to the corn and mine it. Athens can grow on Phalanxes.
3) Sparta: Now this is a good whipping city. I would switch to Library now to grow to 4 or 5, possibly stealing pigs for a turn or two and then whip worker into Library. This city will run scientists when Library finishes. We might get another worker out of here when IW completes.
4) Corinth: I'm inclined to put the chop into a Library and then whip granary later into Library to finish. Or put 2 chops into Library. Possibly put a barracks here as well. Worker will chop hill and mine it, then move to new city.
5) I would place new city 1NE of Pigs. Improve pigs and chop or whip WB. OF into Library, build Granary
6) I'll try to scout the general area a bit with Phalanx and Spear but not to far so as to keep spawnbusting up. I'd like to see what we have to the West a bit.
7) As for IW, I'll run binary until our first Library is in and then up the slider.
I'd really like to road to the new city and chop that forest we settle on, but don't think we have the worker turns for it.
My assumption is that we want to get to a point of running scientists in most cities initially once Libs are up, at least until we have the ability to really improve the land. Sparta appears to be the obvious long term GP farm though.
Also, should we consider starting another settler at some point in case a) a nice spot presents itself b) we decide to gift a city to Ragtastic
edit: May be a good idea to send the Spear in Athens out into the field as well or at least keep it on the edge of Corinth or Spartan borders. We should be fine in Athens for happy until a build a new Phalanx
Athens plan sounds good. I'd grow Sparta right now for 1t, take the pig and finish worker, then grow into a library whip.
We really need to do some scouting here, esp the west coast. There might be a good spot around that copper. We're quite low on units. Can we use the pig/fish city to build some warriors initially? Phalanx is expensive at this stage. Or, even gift Mansa copper for 10t at some point in order to build some.
I don't like IW. The only jungled resources are the 3 spices. Can we deduce if Rags knows another AI? I'm an espionage idiot, unfortunately. We've known him for at least 30t, and he only has 18ep against us. Why are we not seeing MM's research, btw?
We really need to do some scouting here, esp the west coast. There might be a good spot around that copper. We're quite low on units. Can we use the pig/fish city to build some warriors initially? Phalanx is expensive at this stage. Or, even gift Mansa copper for 10t at some point in order to build some.
I don't like IW. The only jungled resources are the 3 spices. Can we deduce if Rags knows another AI? I'm an espionage idiot, unfortunately. We've known him for at least 30t, and he only has 18ep against us. Why are we not seeing MM's research, btw?
AJ11
Emperor
Lurker: Because unless you let people pass through your lands, chances are, you are the only one he can see, which means all his EP are targeted on you. EP ratio governs what you can passively see.
shyuhe
Deity
I think we will need IW reasonably soon to start expanding into the jungle. There's a river down there so it's not all short-term crap land. Our first four cities are excellent so we really only need two decent cities for Oxford whipping.
There are 0 beakers invested in aesthetics so it won't hurt to change techs to something else right now.
Sparta has some stacked whip anger so I wouldn't whip it right now. It's probably the best city to farm a GS though, as Athens can build stuff using raw hammers.
There are 0 beakers invested in aesthetics so it won't hurt to change techs to something else right now.
Sparta has some stacked whip anger so I wouldn't whip it right now. It's probably the best city to farm a GS though, as Athens can build stuff using raw hammers.
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Yeah, I think this map may call for early IW. There is just too much Jungle. However, we could get by without it also.
I'll definitely monitor Sparta happiness, but at least we know it will grow into scientists so growth will be minimized regardless.
Trading copper for warriors is not a bad idea. However, with all that jungle and fog, I'd rather have at least 1 more Phal or two for protection - or at least until I have a better idea just how much open land is down there.
I seem to recall that, based on EP, Rag and Mansa had not met anyone yet. This was last time I check, so it may have changed.
We might want to get a scout WB out as well...maybe out of Corinth.
I'll definitely monitor Sparta happiness, but at least we know it will grow into scientists so growth will be minimized regardless.
Trading copper for warriors is not a bad idea. However, with all that jungle and fog, I'd rather have at least 1 more Phal or two for protection - or at least until I have a better idea just how much open land is down there.
I seem to recall that, based on EP, Rag and Mansa had not met anyone yet. This was last time I check, so it may have changed.
We might want to get a scout WB out as well...maybe out of Corinth.
shyuhe
Deity
We need a few military police units so trading copper isn't so bad. We'll likely want one more phalanx to guard the south.
We should also make a road to Mansa for trade routes now that we have writing.
We should also make a road to Mansa for trade routes now that we have writing.
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I'm glad you mentioned that, because I meant too. It should be noted that we have not OB with Mansa, likely due to the usual Rag/Mansa hate. Worker turns are at a premium though so I could use the new worker from Sparta to finish the road.
The "Can see research" in the espionage screen is less than our current total. He's also splitting his EP between us and Ragnar.
Can someone confirm that Ragnar doesn't know anyone else? I don't know how. Teching IW seems silly, if there is one more AI. MM will get Alpha faster than we get Aest and we can have IW for free by the time we'd settle jungle.
Roading to Kumbi Saleh would be great, as well as OB. Next worker sounds good for that.
We can move the spear out of Athens, so I'm not sure that we'll need another strong unit in the short term. Maybe one phalanx is ok.
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Currently the Spy vs. Spy screen on the EP advisor is not displaying anything on this turn. Not seen that before. I had checked an earlier save and Rag and Mansa total EPs were accounted for based on the "knowns", so they had not met anyone yet. That might have changed, but I can't tell this turn. Only way would be via math, but then my brain would explode.
I guess early IW really comes down to if we want to expand further in the jungle. It really is not needed for existing cities as there is not much to put down in the place of jungles unless we want to cottage spam.
We could get our 6 cities by settling 3W of Athens and somewhere around that copper in the West. Who knows, maybe we will still be able to expand down South after trading for IW later.
I'm fine either way. It would be nice to get Aesths for the Alpha trade and possible setup some craziness between Rag and Mansa.
I guess early IW really comes down to if we want to expand further in the jungle. It really is not needed for existing cities as there is not much to put down in the place of jungles unless we want to cottage spam.
We could get our 6 cities by settling 3W of Athens and somewhere around that copper in the West. Who knows, maybe we will still be able to expand down South after trading for IW later.
I'm fine either way. It would be nice to get Aesths for the Alpha trade and possible setup some craziness between Rag and Mansa.
AJ11
Emperor
That's... weird...
Sure we only need IW if we expand into the jungle, but since we're running out of non-jungle sites we don't have much other choice. I don't doubt there is much more to be found there than a few jungled spices...
I agree with bbp though that if we find a 3rd AI that selfresearching IW is silly. But we know how to binary research for a reason, no?
I agree with bbp though that if we find a 3rd AI that selfresearching IW is silly. But we know how to binary research for a reason, no?
It's fractal, Ragnar likely knows at least 1 other AI. You can see the landmass widening, we are on a fairly big one I think.
I would go CoL or aesthetics for GL and try to trade for IW, especially seeing as we have copper already.
Even in jungle belts you can often find resource tiles to work without IW. Jungle never grows over corn for instance, or horses/metal. However, we don't know enough about the jungle yet, I would set research to 0% and mysticism while exploring a bit and then decide.
Settling the next city (after pig/fish) is no rush. Settling it too soon will only slow us down anyway. This is the time to get some libraries/workers.
Put the Corinth chop into a work boat for pig/fish, and perhaps another work boat for exploring as you said.
Exploring with a work boat is of huge importance on fractal. You can often find AIs on a different landmass for excellent trade routes.
I would make a work boat in Sparta too and explore in both directions.
Maybe open borders with Ragnar to let him reach Mansa?
Speaking of open borders, there should have been a road to Mali by now for the trade routes. We're missing out on free commerce.
I would go CoL or aesthetics for GL and try to trade for IW, especially seeing as we have copper already.
Even in jungle belts you can often find resource tiles to work without IW. Jungle never grows over corn for instance, or horses/metal. However, we don't know enough about the jungle yet, I would set research to 0% and mysticism while exploring a bit and then decide.
Settling the next city (after pig/fish) is no rush. Settling it too soon will only slow us down anyway. This is the time to get some libraries/workers.
Put the Corinth chop into a work boat for pig/fish, and perhaps another work boat for exploring as you said.
Exploring with a work boat is of huge importance on fractal. You can often find AIs on a different landmass for excellent trade routes.
I would make a work boat in Sparta too and explore in both directions.
Maybe open borders with Ragnar to let him reach Mansa?
Speaking of open borders, there should have been a road to Mali by now for the trade routes. We're missing out on free commerce.
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