[BTS] BOTM 133 First Spoiler - To 1AD

[Deckhand]

BOTM 133 - First Spoiler to 1 AD

Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD!

How has the game gone so far?
Any trouble with Barbarians?
Are AIs friendly?
Are you keeping up in tech?

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 133, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD. (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
  
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games

 

[LowtherCastle]

I blew it. Debated whether to build the settler at pop2 or later. Built it later and before I could build any chariot I was overwhelmed by barbs. Didn't help that all my spawnbusters on forest hills managed to die in quick succession and at something like 25% odds for the barbs. I stayed alive and withstood the rampage but was stoneaged. Closed the game in frustration so now I can't change my mind and continue on. Seems like a good and fair game though. I replayed the start, building the settler at pop2 and everything went smoothly thereafter. Live and learn.

Next...

 

[Rusten]

Yeah, the barbarians were rough. Hordes of archers coming in. No way to fogbust it all when you start in the tundra region. I imagine that it will be quite a shock to those that rarely play deity (or HoF players that turn them off).
I survived without too many setbacks, but it required some finesse and careful movement.

 

[nocho]

I had quite some barb trouble too, even though I chickened and teched archery quite soon. Barb archers already appeared way before building the first settler, so I didn't think I would make it safely to the horses. Still they held me up quite a bit, but finally fought them off with more bad rolls than usual. At 1 AD I am at 7 cities as 6 chariots didn't make it to capture a nice barb city to the west. Met 5 AIs so far, of course I'm still behind in tech, but at least teched and traded my way to currency/CoL/MC/calendar, with wealth CS shouldn't be too far off, although all AIs already have that. The positive part is that there's still some green land to the west to expand into, but to win this I think it'll be a very tough game as I'm not a deity regular and don't have many (or any) stellar cities. It'll be a long slog ahead if I pretend to win this.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Yeah, the barbarians were rough. Hordes of archers coming in. No way to fogbust it all when you start in the tundra region. I imagine that it will be quite a shock to those that rarely play deity (or HoF players that turn them off).
I survived without too many setbacks, but it required some finesse and careful movement.

What was your starting sequence in terms of teching, builds, and settling? What was your basic thinking process? What did you notice that made you decide to do what?

I re-tried building a settler at pop2, but that delays the gold mines. I wanted to skip archers. I suppose another strategy would be to delay the settler and tech AH-Mining-Hunting-Archery. Problem is, starting with Hunting-AH delays the pigs and sheep. Mining-Hunting-AH would probably time right but again that delays growth.

 

[Rusten]

What was your starting sequence in terms of teching, builds, and settling? What was your basic thinking process? What did you notice that made you decide to do what?

I re-tried building a settler at pop2, but that delays the gold mines. I wanted to skip archers. I suppose another strategy would be to delay the settler and tech AH-Mining-Hunting-Archery. Problem is, starting with Hunting-AH delays the pigs and sheep. Mining-Hunting-AH would probably time right but again that delays growth.

To start I'll say that if I were to replay the map I might tech archery. It would avoid so many annoying situations and probably result in quicker expansion as I could move more freely.
When you have 2 gold mines for early commerce it doesn't set you back that much. I was stubborn and refused to accept the inefficiency of teching AH and then going back for hunting (probably not the smartest). I think AH-mining-hunting-archery is a good safe play (settler size 4).

I went AH-mining-BW, settler on size 4. Probably the same thing you did.
I knew that barbarians could only come from the south/SW so I risked it and skipped archery. Had 1 warrior on the forested hill 2SW of the gold and 2 more on forests south of 2nd city (PH for wheat+horse). Lost an early 90% battle (2840 BC) so got a 4th warrior early.

This was a common sight for hundreds of years.

Spoiler :

Archers storming in from the SW. In the top of the image you can spot my settler fortified 1W of the corn, but I could not settle the city as I would be spread too thin to defend. It's also a crucial city as you need work boats out early on this map for trade routes. The barb warrior also delayed the wheat irrigation when it was 1T from completion -- had to move away my worker. Altogether really annoying. I ended up getting a granary in Orleans before settling any further cities. I think I got more unlucky with battles than you'd expect (at least in the early phase) as I lost a chariot in a 95% battle at 1600 BC too. These set-backs really hurt and I had to invest so many hammers in barb defense. But still, it could've been worse.

So what do you do when you can't expand:

Spoiler :

Took MC which is really good here for the cheap forges (+2 happy) and trade bait for alpha/maths. If we weren't IND then CoL was probably the pick for faster bureaucracy. Thinking about it now CoL might've been better despite our leader. One thing that turned me off it was that I didn't want to found a religion. My plan was to tech to music and then use the great artist for a golden age to boost myself to early bureaucracy. In the end this turned out to be a huge mistake. Pacal beat me to it by 1T so it was pretty much wasted beakers. Furthermore nobody teched currency which I desperately wanted to trade for to sell resources and get +3 commerce in every city (trade routes). My game is in good shape, but it would be so much better if I had skipped music and went straight for currency. Needless to say currency was available for trade when I had teched ~90% of it. My trading was really lackluster this game.

By 1AD I've teched ~95% of paper heading towards liberalism. I've built GL+NE in capital in addition to the HE (unlocked by barbarians!).
~200 BPT with plenty of gold to spare.

 

[Rusten]

If I was to put money on somebody dying to barbarians beforehand it would be you for sure. Always cutting it so close in "normal games" already. Often a boon, but sometimes a disaster.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Rusten Thx. Archers are also such excellent defenders compared to chariots. Looks like my game wasn't so horribly far behind yours. Should have kept at it. Oh well...

 

[LowtherCastle]

So what was your basic military strategy moving forward? What did you use for your first war and how did you decide in advance what it would be?

 

[nocho]

To start I'll say that if I were to replay the map I might tech archery. It would avoid so many annoying situations and probably result in quicker expansion as I could move more freely.
When you have 2 gold mines for early commerce it doesn't set you back that much. I was stubborn and refused to accept the inefficiency of teching AH and then going back for hunting (probably not the smartest). I think AH-mining-hunting-archery is a good safe play (settler size 4).

I took exactly this path of AH-mining-hunting-archery and it indeed allowed me to stay afloat and expand a bit more comfortably. As you say, I figured with 2 golds that the little detour was worthwhile.

So what do you do when you can't expand:

Spoiler :

I was wondering, what would you have done had you missed the Oracle, would it have been a mayor setback? In my game Pacal built it in 1800BC so some 6 turns before you finished it. By 1AD he actually had 11 wonders including 2 shrines, so he's quite the beast. And at what point do you insert the run to priesthood, straight after pottery and writing? I usually struggle to find the adequate moment.

What kind of city and pop count do you have at 1AD?

 

[Rusten]

Wouldn't have mad a big difference, especially seeing as I didn't make it 1st to Music anyway. I could've just traded aesthetics for the techs instead of MC.
It was just a punt. I put in the priesthood path after pottery, but before writing. One of my justifications for it was that I needed Polytheism for literature anyway.

I'll give you the 1AD stats later. Can't open save now.

 

[lymond]

I did okay with barbs. Went to Archery after BW, and built a few. My warriors help stall the barb invasion for a while, and was pleased that the archers actually attacked my archers on hills instead of walking around pillaging stuff. Once that wave was quelled there were no problems as I gradually pushed my busters out.

An annoying barb city spawned due W of Paris on the coast. I settled clam/corn and then Pigs over there, and eventually just flipped that city (crappy) from pigs city. Settled wheat/horse next and then fish/silk, and corn/iron to SW.

Honestly, did not expect to get GLH but as usually it was built literally 1t before I was to complete it. I was focusing on a GS out of that city, so if I had focused on hammers more I would have had it. Had maths chops by then and was so close.

For my 7th city I had a settler prepared for corn/silver down SE, but Joao felt he needed to send a settler halfway across the map to settle there before me. I was pretty pizzed. Dow'd him a little later and took even with LBs with cats/swords. Ugh..i hate when AIs do that so early.

Grabbed a real nice barb city W of corn/iron with lots of silk and forest and should have another barb city soon after on the far coast..not a great one. Also, settled a fur city and a city on Silver (since Joao city I kept next to that corn since it had gran/LH)

So around 12 cities by 1AD, but teching not steller. I don't think I will win Lib. I'm in an eternal war with Joao and Pacal (called in), but I bribed Zara on Pacal, Wang Dow'd Pacal shortly after, and I bribed Fred on Joao.

Building Unis slowly now since I'm in Caste. Will run a golden age with new GP when that arrives - 1st 2 went to academy and part bulb Edu. No wonders. Not sure what I want do with this game. Right now the overall beaker rate is not where it should be. Early golds are nice, but no true bureau cap really. More of Mids type situation. I missed opportunity for fast mil tech advantage, so don't see me doing anything on that front for some time if I can catch up. I had decent tech parity for some time, but AIs are really starting to race ahead in techs.

Oh..and the Bud love fest over there doesn't help, although Fred did switch to Confused eventually.

Honestly, the war with Joao was a bad idea, but I could not let him settle on my land mass out of principle..ha.. But it certainly limited me trading techs with him and Pacal.

 

[WastinTime]

Felt like raging barbs.
The SE passage could be blocked with one warrior.
The NW needed to be spawnbusted with one warrior.
The SW had a couple forested hills to fortify on, so one warrior there really helped delay the swarm.
The swarm starts when there are a certain # of cities, so I tried not to fight before then which I assumed would be triggered when I settled city #2.
It was hard work tho. I would let warriors survive as long as possible since killing one just spawns another, possibly an archer.
Settler at pop4...
I was forced to settle ON the horse instead of the nicer PH tile. I quickly chopped (20h) a chariot there.
My capital could produce one every 3 turns, so that allowed me to survive without archery.

I thought maybe no one would submit a win on this one, but it sounds like several people survived .
Anyway, I just wanted to get in a quick/easy victory....i.e. Religious (tech to Theo, then Optics if necessary).
Mapmaker said the AI was a mostly peaceful group.
Then someone Oracles Theology! OK, plan B: Espionage.

bulb Philo and tech to Constitution for Jails. Have some fun with HorseArchers along the way with HBR being good for trading.
Espionage Victory wants an AI to settle my continent for gift cities, so I was hoping for that.
Barb cities spawned instead.

Then the AI With Theo went to war, so I teched Theo and built Tao AP in 1 turn.
I still figure I need optics (caravel), so I'm going to bulb that in a few turns.

Got free techs: MetalCasting, Compass, Iron, Feudalism, Construction, Calendar, Mono, Alpha, Math, Currency, Aes. CS is available.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I took the Adventurer save, so I'm playing at Emperor difficulty. I can't imagine how all of you are competing at Deity.

Barbs have been a nuisance, but I'm pushing them back. The biggest nuisance is all the tundra and ice that's worthless to expand into, but still available for barb cities to pop up. By 1 AD, I have 8 cities, including a good one captured from the Huns. No world wonders for me, and I'm falling behind in tech. At least the AI are peaceful.

I've decided to try for a Cultural Victory in this game.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Then the AI With Theo went to war, so I teched Theo and built Tao AP in 1 turn.
I still figure I need optics (caravel), so I'm going to bulb that in a few turns.
...
Got free techs: MetalCasting, Compass, Iron, Feudalism, Construction, Calendar, Mono, Alpha, Math, Currency, Aes. CS is available.

How did you build the AP in 1 turn?

And what do you mean by free techs?

 

[WastinTime]

How did you build the AP in 1 turn?

And what do you mean by free techs?

IIRC, it was 6 forest chops using OrgRel +25% bonus and IND +50%.
I also had a 4/35 spear that I 2-whipped for 35 raw overflow.

I got all those techs from the AI. I had to trade them my tech. Still counts as 'free' in my book

 

[Kaitzilla]

This game has good, challenging barbs.

Settled in place for the capital to keep room for a good northern city.
Teched AH->Mining->Bronze Working -> Writing.
Whipped 2nd city at Size 4 and settled the coastal pigs instead of the north.

..And I never made it to the Horses.
Held the southern line in 4 spots with gobs of Woodsman Warriors.
Eventually, much later, I gave in and traded Math for Iron Working.
One of these days I'll do the smart thing and tech Archery .

Currently have Engineering at 1AD thanks to 50% chance Great Engineer (bulb) and the Great Lighthouse, but missed out on Colossus.
Will try for military victory.
Might be a bit bloody.

Spoiler :

 

[Pangaea]

Still alive

Start was seriously rough with what felt like the barbs rushing me. Had to fight 3-4 fights a turn for disturbingly long. Cannot remember the last time I self-teched Archery (outside of a flurry of Always War games a year or two back), but I did here, and am 100% sure I would be dead by about turn 40 without it. Lost some warrior fights I should have won, and then they came in queues, despite covering large parts of the map with fogbusters. Had to move around a good bit to prevent pillage, but for the most part they thankfully assaulted the archers in forest or hills, even a guerilla archer on forested hill behind a river (in the SE)

Settled in place and teched AH directly. It fits quite well with getting out the worker. Then did Mining->BW (tons of forests). Really didn't want to do Archery at this point, but glad I did, as I managed to get out one in time without needing to whip. After that it was Fishing (20% bonus)->Pottery->Writing. Then I actually did Math (again, tons of forests) -> Sailing before going right for Currency. Nobody had Alpha at this point, and it felt pointless to do that myself on Deity. And Currency was needed. Later on I traded Currency for Alpha, IW and the smaller tidbits.
(edit: I also built settler at size 4 btw. Wanted to get all the good tiles online early)

Barbs were a nightmare though. By turn 60 I had killed 21 Naturally this meant slower expansion than wanted. But I had parked the starting warrior in the west, fogbusting that whole area, instead of exploring early (2nd warrior did that, before parking him too). 2nd city went west for pigs, and 3rd north. Was impossible to get to horses at this point. A key fogbuster lost, and archers were busy defending my core. But eventually I managed to stem the flow, and fan out.

Throughout all this, two barbs cities spawned in the east and west, ruining getting those spots early-ish myself. Got one of them by T105 or so, and will soon attack the next one with HAs. But it's on a hill so I only get coinflip odds. Some other chap founded Taoism, and it felt a bit pointless to build an Academy in a food and river-starved capital, so I kept the GS for a while, not sure what to do with him. Suddenly the AIs had piles of techs for trade, so I put some turns into CS and a turn into Machinery, bulbed Philo (only Wang had it), and traded for CS, Machinery and later Feudalism. Never tried for Music. No Marble (ofc it's possible to get it, but yuck) and I knew Pacal would probably beat me as he could tech Music pretty early.

Oracle went quite late in my game actually, Frederick in 1200BC, but I had no chance on that anyway, with all the barbs streaming in. Freddie took Metal Casting with it. Hadn't met him at that point, as I was late with workboats. Strange-looking land so far, though.

At least I'm alive and not horribly backwards yet, but I only have 7 cities (should be 8 in a few turns), with 30 pop or so. Paris only size 8 (9 next turn). Buddhism spread to me, and before I knew it had, Joao was there with a demand... I accepted, as half the world was Buddhist. No further spread though, so I'll build a couple missionaries now. It's the AP religion.

Have no idea how to win this game, though. I'll have Paper next turn, but can't trade that if I'm going to have any chance for Lib. Thankfully I got a pile of failgold from Paya, so can tech at 100% for a long time. Will get a GS in ~15 turns, so can part-bulb Edu with him. Hopefully that means it's possible to get Lib, but with Philo spread to everybody, it's far from a sure thing. Almost everybody have Engineering (Notre Dame just went too), but I can't get it, and probably won't be able to trade any more for a long time (can't trade Paper or Edu).

Christianity did spread to me, so maybe Culture could be possible. Hate culture games though, they're painfully boring, but with such sucky land I can't see how I can do much in terms of war or diplo. Well, maybe diplo will become feasible if Buddhism stays strong and I don't mess up too badly with demands and whatnot.

Very tough map, I'd say, and certainly not Deity light this time.

Below is one of the busy barb turns

Spoiler :

 

[Pangaea]

Were anybody else super-annoyed about no food on the islands due east btw? I had a settler and galley virtually ready, but then the last hope for food was dashed. Kept him in the queue as long as possible, and later popped him for silver in the far SE. Crappy city, but at least it can take the corn.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Were anybody else super-annoyed about no food on the islands due east btw? I had a settler and galley virtually ready, but then the last hope for food was dashed. Kept him in the queue as long as possible, and later popped him for silver in the far SE. Crappy city, but at least it can take the corn.

Heh, it gives barb galleys a good place to spawn if nothing else.