BOTM 25 Pregame Discussion

[pollock]

Ragnar is about my favorite leader. Aggressive so can early rush and a has financial so good at getting out of economic slump afterwards. Its on a archipelago map as well so Ragnar's navigation and maceman may come in handy. I feel a navigation 1 galley berserk rush coming on hehe

 

[kcd_swede]

It does look like the spot where the scout is, is a good spot to start. With such a good start, I am wondering what horrors lie beyond the starting zone?

I'm suprised there are no fog-gazers reporting in yet.

I think the resources you see will best be divided between two cities. One megacity might be nice if the nearby islands are lush... but probably they aren't as lush as this.

To me, I see water 2N+1NW, and water 1N+2E. I think we're on a tiny island. If DS is evil (like last X-Mas, remember??) then we are on tiny island but the map script is long snaky continents. If DS is hoping for more than a lump of coal for Xmas, then the map script looks like tiny islands. Moving the scout NW+NE should confirm my suspicions.

Another thought...With financial trait, it may be that Colossus is more powerful than GLH, but there is nothing saying you can't have both.

I think I'm going to Oracle Metalcasting and then go berserk with this one.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The coastal tile 3SE indicates land beyond, conceivably not reachable without a cultural bridge, so settling SE would open that up sooner (I don't buy this, btw). We could even settle 3 cities on this small island. Evil would be resources on the two empty tiles we see.

I think settling in place is the best choice, without any further scouting. Mega-capital. Other island cities grab the rest of the resources.

 

[ainglis]

Looking forward to this one. Monarch is just about my level, and Financial is an easy bonus to make use of so I feel optimistic about my chances for once

I think I'll move the settler 1SW to see what lies beyond, and then probably 1E to settle on turn 2. I'm not concerned about missing the third crabs resource - it looks like a city on a landmass to the east may claim it anyway.

Scout will go NW - NE, though I agree with kcd_swede, it looks like water NE - E of the settler's starting location.

 

[Markus5]

Well, I'll need a new computer to play this one. Its just about impossible to play endgames without crashing. I wish Santa would arrive early.

 

[ZPV]

I need to get me some Viking horns, I do. Anyone know where I can get some?
But that language he speaks... it's all Greek to me.
I spy with my little eye a copy+paste error

The bold brown subtitle underneath the settings.

 

[beestar]

I'm betting that Ragnar Claus lives at the North Pole, and that there's a (rein)deer resource not far from where we are.

Ragnar Claus brings gifts of Berserker Macemen to the homes of the other AIs, whether they've ben good or bad ...

 

[lroumen]

Hmm... For most high level games (prince+), I found it often that we were aided by hidden resources in the starting cross when settling in place.
This time I think there is iron or copper hidden in the grassland 2N1W, but it may just as well be on the plains 1SW. Since BOTMs are always made with the resource on the spot where you do NOT want to have it because a different settling opportunity seems better than in place, logic dictates that the resource will be the grassland.

However! Settling in place will be havoc on the time it takes for my workboats to travel to the clams, and I find it better to move the capital on turn 1 to relieve that travel cost (you gain a few turns on your expanion if you move). Cultural expansion will then allow access to the resource if I choose to settle on 1S, 1E or 1SE.

Then there is the possibility of fog-hidden resources, which also requires thought. 1NW-1NE is probably the best bet for the scout. Then on the next turn go 1SE perhaps if the settler is not in place yet.

I have a question that is bugging me as a result of this pondering.

I think that I can move the settler 1SW to check what's hidden near the coast and move the scout 1NW+1NE to see what's hidden on the other side of the land.

However, my question is. Can my settler still move in turn 1 if I go 1SW?

i.e. I think 1S is a good healthy site to start, so if I can get there by scouting 1SW and if there is nothing to be seen go 1E to end up 1S of the starting position on turn 1, then settle in turn 2.... I think that would be quite okay as a start. Is that possible?
I'm soo rusty with movement calculations.

 

[DeityBarbarian]

It will sure be fun playing this one my first ever BotM !

Im thinking about scouting with the settler too in the first turn (usually can afford to do that at Monarch speed). My initial toughts : Scout NW-NE and settler SW.

Looking forward to playing as such unigue person as Pericles Ragnar

 

[Indiansmoke]

Cool some boatrushing action in true Xmas spirit

Hopefully there are island connections before astro

The start is very interesting...at first glance it seems that the plains hill is the best place to settle. I don't think it matters if there are any seafood resources to south as the plains spot misses hills, the 1S spot does not allow for another city to share the seafood, settling on the fur misses a ton of early commerce and misses second city in exchange for not much really and in place is out of the question.

So I think I will be moving both units north, settler on north fur and scout on the grass hill and depending on what I see go for the plains hill or not.

 

[lymond]

delete

 

[Dynamic]

Can my settler still move in turn 1 if I go 1SW?

Yes it can. May be it's a good choice because on Epic speed 1 turn isn't so critical.

 

[culdeus]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has proposed settling SW to allow the tundra tile to the East to take the 3rd crab. Maybe it's not the best choice.

I've generated a ton of maps and a few test maps and there are frequently very small islands dotting the perimeter of the starting islands. I'm going to guess that the tundra tile to the E is on the starting island and the desert tile to the far SW is a worthless single/double.

SE seems to be my likely play. Move scout to the plains tile to just verify nothing fun is over there. This will make a whipfest of a capital with not many hammers, but so it goes. Pair it with GLH, Moai, Colossus, LH and it's good enough. Hopefully find an Oracle site shortly. Or just blow it off. One can't have it all.

Mining-BW-Sailing-Wheel-Pots-Library-AH-Masonry-(oracle techs or alpha)

 

[Rusten]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has proposed settling SW to allow the tundra tile to the East to take the 3rd crab. Maybe it's not the best choice.

I mentioned it, but wrote it off due to the likelihood of a strategic resource being there.
It also loses the 2nd fur and leaves you with only 1 hill to make important wonders (edit: before galleys anyway -- is the tile 2SW-1S a plains hill?).

 

[culdeus]

I think I'm just going to do a conventional start.

Boat
Swap Worker at S2 to finish and mine PH
Finish Boat1
Chop Swap Settler1 with Boat2
Work Settler at 3 with 2nd chop in
Finish Settler1 At T62
Finish Boat2 at T68
Warrior and boat3 to 4
Then single chop + Whip 2 more settlers by about T85. Chop workers in new cities that hopefully have fishies.

Need to determine if good idea to build the lighthouse before an exploring galley. I tend to think so. Will also help with the whip so that usually wins out.

Going to try a golden age aided conquest.

 

[domination_diva]

My first BOTM!

I've been trying to get better and have been ramping up the levels, and just won a couple of games on Prince recently. I'm happy that I'm joining at the right time, for the next level up!

I don't play too often, and I haven't played the Vikings before. Archipelago map and Financial trait have me thinking about coastal cities and Colossus. The special building for the Vikings also means faster exploration... yummy.

I first thought about settling on the southern Fur because I didn't see much benefit coming from those southernmost Ocean tiles, which only have one commerce (educate me anyone?). But now I see the point about having strong commerce coming from *individual* tiles in the early game, so I think I'm not gonna rest on a bed of furs this time around. Need those early technologies for exploration, etc. Especially since I'm ramping up a level, I don't want to fall too far behind on the tech race.

I'm not much of a warmonger, and so it will be interesting to see whether I will be "sucked" into such a strategy if I have a strong navy for exploration, fast Viking ships, and berserkers.

This start looks favorable, and so I too am wondering what horrors lie beyond the black.

I have a question: what are 'test games' and does that mean people see the map before playing? Doesn't that give some people an advantage? I assume that's generally tolerated so I'll shuddup if that's how it shakes.

See you on the other side!

 

[lymond]

My first BOTM!

I have a question: what are 'test games' and does that mean people see the map before playing? Doesn't that give some people an advantage? I assume that's generally tolerated so I'll shuddup if that's how it shakes.

See you on the other side!

Test games are just saves created by fellow GOTMers that mimic the starting position and the basic features of the game, i.e., Monarch level, Archipelago, Epic, etc.. They are not created by the makers of the BOTM save itself nor do they have any connection with the main game. It's just to test out the start based on what we know, the leader and map. It's usually far different from the actually BOTM save and offers no advantage whatsoever. I usually play a test game, if someone makes one, until 1AD or so just to practice the map and leader if not familiar with it. Sometimes these GOTMs are on maps I've never tried - like this current map.

By the way, welcome to the GOTMs. More the merrier. I've learned a lot playing these games though usually less than successful so far. I hope to change that for the better this time ot.

 

[domination_diva]

Test games are just saves created by fellow GOTMers that mimic the starting position and the basic features of the game, i.e., Monarch level, Archipelago, Epic, etc.. They are not created by the makers of the BOTM save itself nor do they have any connection with the main game. It's just to test out the start based on what we know, the leader and map. It's usually far different from the actually BOTM save and offers no advantage whatsoever. I usually play a test game, if someone makes one, until 1AD or so just to practice the map and leader if not familiar with it. Sometimes these GOTMs are on maps I've never tried - like this current map.

By the way, welcome to the GOTMs. More the merrier. I've learned a lot playing these games though usually less than successful so far. I hope to change that for the better this time ot.

Thanks! I can see now why test games would be a good idea.

Yeah, I love reading everyone's detailed strategies - it's exactly what I need to win on higher and higher levels.

I'm also interested in seeing how Epic speed affects gameplay. Apparently it means losing a turn here or there has less of a negative effect. Also, I would imagine that tech advantages in war are more important because the enemy AI can't recover technologically as quickly.

 

[adrianj]

Generally, slower speeds favour the human over the AI. Why?
1. As you point out, messing up something for individual turns doesn't have quite the same impact. Considering the AI messes up every turn anyway, for the AI it doesn't matter what speed it is
2. Military units of any particular era stay good for longer. A human player will put much more specific planning into a) beelining the required techs and b) setting up infrastructure/population/treasury to chop/whip/upgrade/buy/draft an army as fast as possible.

I think that will be my plan for Ragnar. I noticed that once you have Rifling, you can still build Berserkers. What's more, berserkers can be upgraded to rifles and retain the amphibious bonus. AND Ragnar is financial so teching to Rifling might not be so long, and then once there it shouldn't be a big stretch to save gold to upgrade berserkers to rifles. Plus, Rifles require more than berserkers, something that is generally fairly scarce on archipelago maps.

Sure, you might miss out on earlier war opportunities by not using the berserkers straight away - but I'm aiming for space for this one, and letting the AI develop it's (my!) cities and land for an extra era might work in my favour.

My early game wishlist would be to nab both GLH and Collosus... maybe even Oracle for MC... and enough cities to make the GLH worth it... and workboats or galleys to explore... it's a pretty big wishlist. That list is kinda long, what to prioritise?

Hopefully Santa has something good for me. Time for me to get started and see if it actually works

 

[Simon_c]

OK. the plan for this month is:

get the GLh and Colossus up, get berserkers out, tech as far as friggates (if needed) and conquer the world with berserkers.

No idea how I'll do that yet...