Bowsling 2: The Lion and the Chariot

[Elephantium]

*shrug*

AFAIK, that's in there by design. Strange? Definitely. Bug/error? I wouldn't call it either.

 

[Brainiac18]

Since we don't need any further growth, maybe all active settlers should be canceled then? Btw, Bowsling is next?

 

[CommandoBob]

If Bowsling doesn't post a get today, I'll claim it. I wanted to give him a chance to play.

 

[Bowsling]

Sure, that's good with me. I am (obviously) having a hard time finding time for SGs.

 

[CommandoBob]

Got it. I'll try to get a strategy post up within the next 24 hours. I haven't opened the save yet.

 

[CommandoBob]

3400 Gold, +19 gpt
20% tax
78% science
00% luxury
Refining in 7 turns.

City Builds

1. Not for 105 cities!

City Production
Theory of Evolution [1] (Hattusas - Mil Acad)
Settler [32]
Temple [18]
Artillery [8]
Library [9]
Infantry [2]
Aqueduct [4]
Cavalry [19]
Worker (all sorts) [2]
Factory [3]
Harbor [1] (Swazi)
Frigate [6]

Military

• 007 Settler
• 039 Worker
• 179 Slaves
• 001 Swords
• 001 Musket
• 003 Knight
• 066 Cavalry
• 022 Infantry
• 000 Cannon
• 014 Artillery
• 001 Caravel
• 005 Frigate
• 013 Army
• 009 Mace
• 008 Guerilla
  • 197 Allowed units
  • 189 Current units
  • 000 gpt unit support

Luxuries
05 Grapes
05 Furs
03 Dyes
03 Incense
05 Spices
07 Ivory
06 Silks
01 Gems


Resources
04 Rubber
07 Coal
06 Saltpeter
10 Iron is connected.
07 Horses are connected.

International
Compared to Egypt (Democracy) we are Strong.
Compared to Aztecs (Democracy) we are Strong.
Compared to Carthage (Democracy we are Strong.

We are at War with Egypt.
We are at Peace with Aztecs.
We are at Peace with Carthage.


City Counts

• 105 Hittites (Bowsling02 people)
• ?? Egypt (we see six)
• 10 Carthage
• 05 Aztecs

Trades
Aztecs: Peace for 5 more turns.
Carthage: Peace for 14 more turns.

Notes/Plans
We almost have a problem. The Great Wonder Theory of Evolution is due in 4. We are learning Refining at 80% and it is due in 7 turns. However, this is our first turn, so no beakers are invested. Science will drop to 0% and we'll just fill our coffers for the next few turns.

Normally I would favor learning Atomic Theory and Electronics with Theory of Evolution. In our case, I'm not so sure. It looks like we only need five techs to win: Refining and Steel, which leads to Combustion (Transports). Then Mass Production, which unlocks Amphibious Warfare (Marines). Maybe Motorized Transportation (Tanks). Our peace treaty with Carthage ends in 14 turns and we could use Hadrumetum as a launching point for an invasion of the isolate Egyptian city of Hieraconpolis. We'll need Marines to be able to attack the city/island. The island is 3 tiles in size. By the time we do learn Amphibious Warfare all that will be left will be Egypt's island resorts.

It might be possible to learn Steel in 4 turns and then use ToE for Refining and Combustion. Or slow down ToE a turn or so. We'll see.

I would really prefer to get Hieraconpolis in a peace deal but that is not possible at the moment.

It looks like this is at the start of 1250 AD.

We are building Temples we don't need. These will probably switch to libaries.

We have Civil Engineers active in cities building units. That does not help units to be built. Hard hats only give extra shields to buidings.

We'll keep the pressure on Egypt. It would be very nice to get all three of Egypt's island cities in a peace trade, but that might just be a dream.

We might be at war with the Aztecs in five turns. We'll act as if we will be.

We have 61% of the world's area and 79% of the world's population. Domination is very near and w'll have to be careful to avoid it. Those Temple builds may just go to wealth instead and hire geeks.

Worker tasks:
Consolidate into one turn stacks. Rail everywhere inside our borders.

Probably won't be able to play until Sunday.

 

[del62]

The other tech option is espionage which is doable in 4 turns and has some value

 

[Bowsling]

Or we could just extract the island cities off of Egypt through peace, and break the peace deal to finish 'em. It's not like the rep hit is too big of a deal when you are the only one left.

 

[Brainiac18]

We are building Temples we don't need. These will probably switch to libaries.

We have Civil Engineers active in cities building units. That does not help units to be built. Hard hats only give extra shields to buidings.

Didn't knew about that thing with the hard hats Assigned a few temples, as I thought we don't reaaly need anything from new cities

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I delibaretaly signed military alliance in with peace treaty so we would be back at war without losing reputation

Lurker comment: But this did cost your reputation. I just checked with the 1250AD save and the Aztecs "would never accept" any upfront for gpt nor any MA + upfront for MA deals. There may be more. This always happens if you bundle peace with MA and the target civ gets killed. Had Cleopatra on her own decided to sign peace, it would not have been a problem for you; you would have even gotten WH.

 

[CommandoBob]

Assigned a few temples, as I thought we don't reaaly need anything from new cities

Generally, libraries are better than temples. Temples do help with unhappiness and in our core cities that is vital. Out in the fringes of the empire, where corruption is high and net production is low (1 sheild per turn), happiness is not a big deal. If the city is cranky, hire a specialist and go on. At 90% corruption, we do not lose production speed by hiring a specialist, unless we were drop from 11 spt to 10 spt, which in turn reduces our net shield per turn from 2 to 1.

Both temples and libraries have the upkeep cost; 1 gpt. Libraries aid in research. Temples do not. They also produce more culture per turn.

In our case, with a Domination win fairly close, neither temples or libaries are good ideas in highly corrupt cities. We don't need any more culture in our border/frontline locations. We need to control just another 86 tiles to have a victory we don't want. Canton's borders will expand next IBT; we gain at most 5 tiles from that, since other cities are nearby. Machu Picchu will expand in 3 turns and we could gain from 12 to 15 tiles there. Aarhus' borders pop in 4 turns and we gain 2 coastal water hexes in that expansion. In four turns we gain 20 or so dominaition tiles just by culture, leaving a buffer of 66-ish tiles. Based on data in the Culture tab of MapStat, I think we can stay under the tile limit if we don't build any more culture producing building (temples, libraries and universities) and if we raze or capture-and-abandon each city we acquire.

Sometimes, building nothing is the right thing to do, though it seems so wrong.

Didn't knew about that thing with the hard hats

An SG is a great place to learn. Trust me on that.

Civil Engineers only affect building production and are ignored when a unit is involved. Sometimes changing the hard hat into a cop will reduce corruption enough to add an extra shield or two each turn into the production pot. Other times it may take 3 or 4 cops to make a difference. Unlike the hard hats, the effect of a cop is hard to determine before the cop is hired and generally some experimentation is needed.

In our situation, where we could use more science, it might be best to change those hard hats into geeks. We have 7 settlers in play right now and we have no plans to build any long term cities, though it might make sense to build some one turn temporary cities to aid us in conquering the Aztecs and Carthage. Some cities, like Nagoya and maybe a few Dutch ones, could benefit by adding a settler into the city.

I like having some spare settlers around to be used as needed, like a reserve of from 4 to 7. But we don't need a reserve of 31.

 

[CommandoBob]

Magellan's Voyage is in Tenochtitlan, Aztecia, Smith's Trading Company is in Heliopolis, Egypt and JS Bach's Cathedral is in Hippo, Carthage.

Do we want to keep any of these?

 

[Brainiac18]

CommandoBob, thanks for detailed explanation!

 

[del62]

Lurker comment: But this did cost your reputation. I just checked with the 1250AD save and the Aztecs "would never accept" any upfront for gpt nor any MA + upfront for MA deals. There may be more. This always happens if you bundle peace with MA and the target civ gets killed. Had Cleopatra on her own decided to sign peace, it would not have been a problem for you; you would have even gotten WH.

Just a note, where you running at negative gpt when you tried to do deal with Aztecs, sometimes if you are running negative they wont accept the deal.

 

[del62]

Magellan's Voyage is in Tenochtitlan, Aztecia, Smith's Trading Company is in Heliopolis, Egypt and JS Bach's Cathedral is in Hippo, Carthage.

Do we want to keep any of these?

While we dont need these, they are nice to have, so we can keep them and abandon other cities if we require, we can also sell culture buildings in cities close to expansion if required.

 

[Bowsling]

If we indeed plan to go island-hunting, we may want Magellan's. Extra gold can never hurt, so we should definately keep Smith's.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Just a note, where you running at negative gpt when you tried to do deal with Aztecs, sometimes if you are running negative they wont accept the deal.

No, no negative gpt here.

 

[Elephantium]

lurker's comment:
If you guys would still like an extra hand for the end-game warfare, I'd be willing to pitch in, especially after CBob's turnset -- he always provides a very detailed handoff

 

[del62]

lurker's comment:
If you guys would still like an extra hand for the end-game warfare, I'd be willing to pitch in, especially after CBob's turnset -- he always provides a very detailed handoff

Thats good with me,

 

[Bowsling]

Sure - sounds good with me.