Branch "Challenge" - Candidate for Release 2.8.1. - for testing [OBSOLETE]

[raystuttgart]

Just a small remark:

AI is really bad at transporting its Units from Europe to the Colonies.
It simply does not buy enough Ships and also it does not prioritize very wisely which Units to transport first.

This is basically still a remainder of poor Vanilla AI transportation logic.
(Game Concepts like Europe - not known in Civ4BTS - have often been implemented quite poorly considering AI logic.)

Edit:
@devolution had at least added code so AI ships in Europe load the most valuable Units first.
So it is much better than the poor Vanilla Europe transportation logic "first in - first out".
But it AI is still not considering which Units it might need strategically.

But currently @devolution is working on AI improvements and maybe he will take a look at this as well.
(I posted a suggestion in our internal forum and if I am correct at least an improvement considering "prioritizing Settlers" should be easy to implement.)

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There would have been other easy ways to "improve AI transportation from Europe" by simply giving AI more transportation capacity, e.g.

• giving AI a free 2nd ships (after e.g. 30 turns) by an AI cheat
• giving all Colonial player a second ship as additional Starting Unit by simple XML balancing change

But both of these solutions I did not really like.

 

[Coprolover]

But otherwise thread discussions will become a total mess that is really hard to follow.

Ok, then I'll duplicate it in a separate thread.

You can even check that yourself by "Cheat Mode". (KeyCode to take over another AI: "Alt" + "Z")

Thanks for the info, I didn't know about this command. This should help me fix the AI building construction. With the help of the world builder, I could build production clusters for AI, but I could not change the current construction with them. For example, in my current party, Washington, with 5 urban population and no heavy industry, is building an arsenal without a large reserve of tools. He has no iron nearby, no other lucrative industry. AI does not build such clusters from the start at all and his own constructions look random. So far, I have to create production clusters manually, based on historical national characteristics. About ships and AI is also noted correctly. The problem is not only in their small number, but also in the fact that AI often uses them for reconnaissance at the very beginning, while wasting a lot of time. Either you have to give cheats to AI, or completely rewrite the scripts. Now I solve this problem manually (by entering resources and units for the AI), but it slows down the game significantly. The same goes for all units in general. For example, a fisherman may be sent to a settlement without access to water. Or a preacher can be sent to an empty city from a city with a church (although it is not overcrowded). And there are a lot of such examples.

As for the 2.8.1 bugs, I haven't noticed anything critical yet. Perhaps they will be revealed later. And finally, one stupid question: how can I split goods in cargo space (for example 34 limber for oxcart, at a time when stock 56)?

 

[Nenos]

If I at home I will check it, this evening.
I prefer to put the settler unit at first place in general. It sounds as the easiest way.

 

[Nenos]

The france have one Caravel which is fully loaded. At their home Port are one settler in an snail of around 50 other professions.
The prob which I see is that the AI will not unload the loaded units until they find a destination. Like a City.

So what I see is that the easiest way, is to kick them out of really to conquer the New World. If they have no City after eg 30 rounds. And in this case I can check if I can pick up one of the founding father from the defeated nation.

But if you are more colonial power friendly you have to increase the chance of getting a settler on the home port. And the AI have to crap them at first. But what should do the AI if they still have units on the boat?

If it possible try to code the following.
If you have no destination do not load.
If you have a settler on home port load and sail them to the new world.
And you have to add a check box like one colonist training per native village. Thats a lot of work

 

[raystuttgart]

If you have a settler on home port load and sail them to the new world.

That is basically what I have suggested today in the internal chat.
AI should simply always prioritize to load Units in Profession Settler in Europe first.
(At least this actually seems to be really easy to implement.)

The prob which I see is that the AI will not unload the loaded units until they find a destination. Like a City.

We would need to check that.
Might be possible to be solved as well though.

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok, it is now ensured that if AI loses all Cities (and Settlers), it can again found new ones.

Instead of spawning the Settler in Europe, the Settler is now spawned in a Ship in the Colonies.
(Tested and verified that it starts founding Cities again.)

Of course this will only happen if AI is not declared "dead" - so an AI that already lost the game will not magically respawn again.

Until now it is just commited internally.
(devolution is still finishing his AI improvements.)

 

[Nenos]

Of course this will only happen if AI is not declared "dead" - so an AI that already lost the game will not magically respawn again.

Thats where I see the problem. A European nation to declared as dead is quit difficult to archive. You have to kill all their units including the missionary by the natives
And if you play on a Huge or Giant map. You've some challenges.

So I would add for the settler an counter to the european AI as limit. For example three times. After this his King isnt anymore interessted to set up an colony in the new world.

 

[raystuttgart]

After 100 turns you can still kill an AI, do not worry.
Once you capture all its Cities and destroy almost all its Units, AI will not get a free Settler anymore.

The logic pretty much says:
If more than 100 turns played & no more Cities & less than 3 Units:
- no more respawning
- no more free Settlers (actually it comes with a small tax increase for AI)

You never ever had to kill "all its units" for AI respawning to be deactivated.
Once it had no more cities and less than 3 it could always be killed. (Which also counts Units in Europe though.)

 

[Nenos]

After 100 turns you can still kill an AI, do not worry.
Once you capture all its Cities and destroy almost all its Units, AI will not get a free Settler anymore.

The logic pretty much says:
If more than 100 turns played & no more Cities & less than 5 Units:
- no more respawning
- no more free Settlers (actually it comes with a small tax increase for AI)

By the way:
Internally I have already changed the min Unit Number to 5.
(It used to be 3.)

All right, I can live with that. So now I am back in Game and check out the expanson. For the next 50 Years. But give me some time. Feels like marathon speed ^^

 

[CecilMonk]

Hello everyone! First time in the forum, but got over 1000 hours into this game. Ray dropped into our discord server and asked for feedback, so here it is.

I like the Settler unit so far, but I feel you can still spam a few cities if you want. Just send another unit with the settler, found a city, leave the unit there and create a new settler. It costs a unit and no resources. Maybe when founding a city some of the resources should be used, like a third of the food and wood, just to avoid reusing those too quickly.

Or maybe I'm a "go tall" player and need to spread quicker, who knows.

But overall the game's been going well, even after 30-40 hours of gameplay no crashes or bugs found.

 

[Raubwuerger]

Just send another unit with the settler, found a city, leave the unit there and create a new settler. It costs a unit and no resources. Maybe when founding a city some of the resources should be used, like a third of the food and wood, just to avoid reusing those too quickly.

That doesn't work for me. All of the resources are used immediately. Maybe you have an old version ...

But I've found a small issue. In the german version we have two times the unit "Siedler" in the colopedia. Each with different stats.

See Screenshots ...

 

[raystuttgart]

Hi guys,

@CecilMonk

Settler does consume the goods when founding a Settlement.
(So you cannot just use the goods again to found another Settlement.)
Please check if you have used the correct DLL attached in the starting post of this thread.

@Raubwuerger

That is just a matter of naming in German (Profession name), which I will correct today.
(In English everything looks fine.)

There is the old Profession "Siedler" (English "Colonist") that can just "walk around and join other colonies.
And there is the new Profession "Siedler" (English "Settler") - which I will rename in German - that can now found new colonies.

Edit:
Please do not copy the new test release over another Release.
Use the new ZIP and the new DLL only.
As I wrote you need the new DLL attached in the starting post of the thread.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

Having a fun game with this version. I can't say the changes have made much difference. Was brilliant before and still equally brilliant.

@raystuttgart I noticed some typos in English - most of them uncorrected from previous version. Should I post them in the bug thread, or do you prefer another method for reporting such things?

 

[raystuttgart]

@Tugboatspotter

Sure, you can collect a list of typos and post them in the bug thread.
Maybe somebody will take care of them.

Spoiler :

But as I said, I am currently preparing my "long break" from modding Civ4Col again.
I basically have my bags packed and am 1 foot out of the door already.

However I want to leave the mod in a stable and fun to play state - because I feel that WTP deserves it.
(Meaning to fix all real bugs and annoying balancing issues where needed.)

Thus I am currently not really interested in correcting all those small typos (myself).
I promised to give it another try and help publish another release and will thus do so, but my motivation is otherwise gone.

Once this release is published I am basically a "community member" again that might support WTP a bit from time to time.
If WTP team will grow again in the future I might reconsider, become active again and ask to rejoin.

Currently it is simply not fun though to be modding in this community that has lost almost all modders ...
At the moment It is basically just me and devolution doing almost all the work alone.

This mod is way too big to be taken care of 2 people only. It consumes way too much time this way.
Especially since I currently do not even play the mod myself - but completely other games.

------
Summary:

Let us see what the future brings.
I still hope that once more players get to know WTP there might also be more modders found.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Raubwuerger

The confusing German Text for Profession Settler is corrected.
(see attached Screenshot)

Thanks for reporting.
It is commited to Branch "Challenge".

 

[Tugboatspotter]

But as I said, I am currently preparing my "long break" from modding Civ4Col again.
I basically have my bags packed and am 1 foot out of the door already.
]

Deep breath. Take a step back. Unpack bags. Stay and don't feel pressurised.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Tugboatspotter

I am totally calm and relaxed.
I am not angry at anybody, do not worry.

Spoiler :

I already wrote it in my starting post of this thread 2 weeks ago.
My decision is well considered and I have not changed my mind.

I wanted to give it a last try after last release already being quite exhausting and disappointing for me.
But nothing has changed since then - at most 2 people are actively working on the mod - often it is only 1.

It is simply currently not fun for me to work in such a small community of modders.
Thus I am going to take a step back and become a "normal community member" again.

I will still be around to help the remaining WTP team from time to time or answer community questions.
I will simply not invest any modding efforts in e.g. improvements or new features.

It is also not the first time I do something like that. It is pretty normal for me that I take long breaks from modding (for months or years) until I find my motivation again.
After I had left RaR (because it was also only me and Schmiddie left) I had even been absent for 2 years and then I saw that WTP started and asked to rejoin WTP team.

So once more people become modders again, I might reconsider and become active again as well.
RaR survived without me and WTP will do so as well.

WTP was never my private mod anyways - it is a team project - if not a community project.
So WTP itself will continue.

I am just informing about my plans but there is no need to continue discussing about my person specifically.
Thus let us please stop it here.

Let us just simply see how things develop.

 

[raystuttgart]

Update:

I attached an updated version of the DLL (as ZIP) to the starting post.
This new DLL contains all recent code improvements from devolution (AI) and myself (small feature improvements) of the last 2 weeks.

It has been tested intensively over the last days. (ingame and autoplay)
So do not worry, it is stable.

Also it is savegame compatible.

If you had already downloaded branch "Challenge" (as described in starting post):
You can simply copy it, replace your current DLL and continue playing. (After extracting the ZIP of course and getting the DLL inside.)

@devolution
In my tests I had the impression that AI was really a lot smarter now.

 

[CecilMonk]

Settler does consume the goods when founding a Settlement.
(So you cannot just use the goods again to found another Settlement.)
Please check if you have used the correct DLL attached in the starting post of this thread.

I did a new install, this time using "git clone" from the branch Challenge for easier updates in the future. It's working properly this time, so I might have messed up something before, amazing it still worked and no crashes. Will see how this changes the gameplay and report back later.

 

[Nenos]

I use the new CvGameCoreDLL.dll ( downloaded yesterday )
I can not change the produktion yield in the city tile. It change visuelly but in the next round it change back.