Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[Gucumatz]

I'd be against Guevara for that very reason - you can include Stalin and Mao in games and people generally know who they were and that they aren't role models. Aside from seeming a slave to possibly the worst possible fashion, including Guevara would seem to endorse someone who was notable only for getting a lot of poor people killed in pursuit of his own fantasy of becoming a glorious revolutionary hero, however many badly-planned revolutions he had to start to get his deathwish and however many of the people he supposedly stood for he had to kill or imprison in gulags in the process.

+1, couldn't agree more

 

[LonleyStrategos]

+1, couldn't agree more

And Atilla was any better?

 

[Red Milk]

I'd be against Guevara for that very reason - you can include Stalin and Mao in games and people generally know who they were and that they aren't role models.

Debatable and irrelevent.

Leaders shouldn't be chosen by virture of being exemplary figures of a desired Western political ideal nor should they be chosen as a condemnation for those who oppose it. What matters is how well they ruled and how influential they are to the nation they are representing.

As such I would oppose Che's inclusion but only insofar that he was never truly a 'leader' of the Cuban people and there is a clearly superior choice; Castro.

Furthermore, the Civilizations games have included far greater 'killers' than the likes of Che who are not commonly recognised as such. Boudicca for instance, in the span of one year, led the massacre/rape/torture of 3 cities consisting mostly of non-combatants (in the tens of thousands) and than sent an army of 80,000 soldiers to their death due to an amateur military blunder.

All for the sake of revenge no less.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, Tacitus's narrative (in one of the two times he writes about her) is about revenge. But Cassius Dio portrays it as a standard rebellion against oppressive Roman taxation. Either way, the Britons joined her banner because they hated Roman rule, not because of what personally happened to her and her daughters.

 

[LonleyStrategos]

Debatable and irrelevent.

led the massacre of 3 cities consisting mostly of non-combatants and than sent an army of 80,000 soldiers to their death

All for the sake of revenge no less.

Moral of the story... to abuse the Queen of the Iceni is to send 80,000 people to their deaths.

 

[WChrisMullen]

Is Havana a City-state in G+K? If it is, I think that's the best representation for Cuba. They're really only important insofar as they were essentially a CS ally of the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

 

[Arachnofiend]

And Atilla was any better?

I think most westerners are familiar with the Big Scary Huns and what they did to Rome. It's a pretty standard part of western history classes as far as I'm aware; we learned a lot more about them than we did, say, the Mongols at least.

 

[otaman1]

Is Havana a City-state in G+K? If it is, I think that's the best representation for Cuba. They're really only important insofar as they were essentially a CS ally of the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

Nope.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I know Cuba is an Iroquois city.

...Surely it isn't the same Cuba though.

 

[otaman1]

I know Cuba is an Iroquois city.

...Surely it isn't the same Cuba though.

And I just notice Iroquois has American and Canadian cities
e.g Green Bay, Buffalo, Montreal, Syracuse etc

 

[Leugi]

Honestly, I doubt a Modern Spanish Speaker will be included this time around, but I suppose that a Gran Colombia Civ would be less of a longshot than Cuba. They can still make Simon Bolivar rather ideology focused, and the civ would be an amalgamation of modern South American cities...

BTW, now that Morocco is so highly hinted, my list goes as follows:

7. Inuit: I still bet for seals, even though many people disagree... They are also quite requested by some fans.
8. Vietnam: Ideology and tourism focus...
9. Something related to the World Congress actively. I don't know which one though...

 

[PerceeP927]

Honestly, I doubt a Modern Spanish Speaker will be included this time around, but I suppose that a Gran Colombia Civ would be less of a longshot than Cuba. They can still make Simon Bolivar rather ideology focused, and the civ would be an amalgamation of modern South American cities...

BTW, now that Morocco is so highly hinted, my list goes as follows:

7. Inuit: I still bet for seals, even though many people disagree... They are also quite requested by some fans.
8. Vietnam: Ideology and tourism focus...
9. Something related to the World Congress actively. I don't know which one though...

no Gran Columbia this time since Panama City is a city state. And really, I don't see how seals is a reasonable choice... at all.

 

[Leugi]

no Gran Columbia this time since Panama City is a city state. And really, I don't see how seals is a reasonable choice... at all.

Yeah, I know that Gran Colombia isn't there sadly... About seals, while I admit is not 100% reasonable, the biggest thing of seals is the fact they would be an interesting rare resource on snow, something that doesn't exist yet... Of course, it is quite a longshot, but hey, its a speculation thread for something hehe...

I honestly don't know which other resource would it be... Mostly because I don't think the resource civ will have it as a "unique resource", and thus it has to be a wee bit generic rather than so very specific...

 

[phaethon16]

I agree, but it would be amazing to have (even just a reskinned Elizabeth in)a 'Margaret Thatcher Memorial Edition' - especially if we have an Argentinian inclusion as an Espanolophone new world civ. Imagine Evita squaring up against The Iron Lady! Epic.

As epic as that would be, Evita would never be stupid enough to attack Margaret Thatcher. Just about no one is stupid enough to attack hrt (except evidently the Argentinian leaders of the time.)

 

[steveg700]

no Gran Columbia this time since Panama City is a city state. And really, I don't see how seals is a reasonable choice... at all.

So, you're saying coffee wasn't the super-secret resource?

Or poppy either, I guess.

 

[Arachnofiend]

As much as I hate to admit it, what we're seeing with the city-states is pointing to Italy. I'm hoping that it'll at least just be Venice, which was a much more important faction at the height of its power than unified Italy ever was. Glass could be the secret resource.

We still need another North American Native civ to go with the CW scenario. I don't know nearly as much about native culture as I probably should, but the Sioux are oft-requested and I think the Cherokee are another viable choice.

This leaves one spot vacant. I'm going with either Indonesia or Vietnam here; Vietnam gets the edge because they could put the ideology game on display whereas Indonesia's main focus (trade) is already taken up by Portugal and possibly Morocco.

So... In short, final guess is Venice, Sioux, Vietnam.

 

[Nujabes]

The Civil War scenario is only Richmond vs. Washington. The Sioux are not in that area, nor are the Cherokee. I think you're right about the Native American civ, but I don't think it'll have anything to do with that scenario.

With Italy/Venice though, if Portugal takes Indonesia's focus, they take Venice's as well. Also, Italy would make sense for the Scramble for Africa scenario, which is the game's main scenario, especially given the presence of Ethiopia.

 

[DiogenesK9]

As much as I hate to admit it, what we're seeing with the city-states is pointing to Italy. I'm hoping that it'll at least just be Venice, which was a much more important faction at the height of its power than unified Italy ever was. Glass could be the secret resource.

We still need another North American Native civ to go with the CW scenario. I don't know nearly as much about native culture as I probably should, but the Sioux are oft-requested and I think the Cherokee are another viable choice.

This leaves one spot vacant. I'm going with either Indonesia or Vietnam here; Vietnam gets the edge because they could put the ideology game on display whereas Indonesia's main focus (trade) is already taken up by Portugal and possibly Morocco.

So... In short, final guess is Venice, Sioux, Vietnam.

What are we seeing with the city states?

 

[Arachnofiend]

The Civil War scenario is only Richmond vs. Washington. The Sioux are not in that area, nor are the Cherokee. I think you're right about the Native American civ, but I don't think it'll have anything to do with that scenario.

I was under the impression it was of larger scale for some reason, sorry. I do think that whatever NA civ we get will be playable in the scenario, I'm sure that someone with more knowledge on the subject would be able to propose a fitting one.

With Italy/Venice though, if Portugal takes Indonesia's focus, they take Venice's as well. Also, Italy would make sense for the Scramble for Africa scenario, which is the game's main scenario, especially given the presence of Ethiopia.

I said it gave Vietnam an "edge", not that it discredited Indonesia's inclusion. Between Portugal, Venice, and Morocco we'd have three trade civs introduced in the expansion. We know that Firaxis has stated that they wanted to put in civs that display the new mechanics and so far there is nothing that directly relates to ideologies, which Vietnam could. I don't guarantee it but I'm fairly confident in this theory.

What are we seeing with the city states?

Riga was introduced as a city-state with the same color as Ragusa, which based on prior precedent means that Ragusa has been removed in order to make it a city for a major civ.

 

[Louis XXIV]

We saw Ragusa replaced (which was a Venetian-owned city at one point). That's about it so far, but it's what we haven't seen that's also relevant (haven't seen Milan, Genoa, Venice, or Florence).