Brazil discussion thread

[Nujabes]

The capitals of China, America and England (at least) in-game aren't historically accurate for those leaders. In fact, London was never capital of independent England, and can be argued not to be capital of the UK now.

London, Washington, Beijing all well-known international cities that are instantly associated with their nation. Which city fits that description better, Rio or Brasilia?

 

[WChrisMullen]

London became the de facto capital of England in the 12th century. It's not the "official" capital today, but that's just because they've never passed a law specifying which city is the capital. But all of the government offices are in London, so that's the best indicator for which city to call the capital.

Rio probably will be the capital of Brazil in BNW, mainly because Brasilia is a very 20th-century construction. It's associated with the modern Brazilian republic rather than the days of Pedro II and the empire. The capital of Siam in Civ V is Sukothai because that was Ramkhamhaeng's capital even though Bangkok is the capital city of Thailand today.

 

[Lira]

Do the game developers even read 11-page long threads like these?

I'm pretty sure taking the guesses in this thread as seriously as some people have been doing is quite pointless

 

[DeathGOD1235]

Do the game developers even read 11-page long threads like these?

I'm pretty sure taking the guesses in this thread as seriously as some people have been doing is quite pointless

The problem is that everyone here is excited for the expansion but none of us can play it so the only thing we can do right now is talk about it and make crazy predictions

 

[Imalich]

Quite oddly, I'm on CivFanatics for years but I seldom posted anything in here. I'm actually more active on Wikipedia (all those articles about Pedro I, Pedro II, Empire of Brazil, etc... were written by me).

I'm glad to see Brazil as a playable civilization on the game. It was about time in my opinion. However, if you don't mind, I'd like to make a few comments regarding Brazilian UUs:

Bandeirante (roughly "Flag-bearer"): Brazil did not expanded its territory in the colonial period because of the Bandeirantes. In fact, Portuguese America was then divided in the State of Maranhão (present-day states of Amazonas, Pará, Maranhão and Piauí) and the State of Brazil (everything else down to Sacramento (in present-day Uruguay). The inhabitants of Portuguese America did not regard themselves "Brazilians". They saw themselves as Portuguese, subjects of the Portuguese king. Although the Bandeirantes (Flag-bearers) are unique to Brazil's history (and not to Portugal), they belong to na era when Brazil did not exist as a nation. The Bandeirantes were Portuguese-born, Indian and Mixed-blood (sons of Indians and Portuguese) explorers, Indian slavers, mercenaries and gold searchers. They did not create settlements. Settlements, which led to Portuguese America's territorial expansion, were created by Portuguese troops (there are still many remnants of Portuguese fortresses across Brazil that eventually evolved into settlements and finally into towns).

Imperial Guarda de Honra (Imperial Guard of Honor): The cavalry Guards dressed in white and gold helmets were created in 1822 and existed until 1831. They are known nowadays incorrectly as "Dragões da Independência" (Independence Dragoons). They were not dragoons, but cavalrymen and they had no part in Brazil's Independence. When the painter Pedro Américo painted the famous "Shout of the Ipiranga" which depicts the then-Prince Dom Pedro (later Emperor Dom Pedro I) declaring Brazil's Independence on 7 September 1822, he dressed Pedro's entourage with the later Guard of Honor's uniforms, even though they had not been created yet. It was a mistake caused by Pedro Américo: the Prince was followed by a guard of honor (some were military officers, others were civilians, all were volunteers to accompany Pedro during his trip in the province of São Paulo), but not the Imperial Guard of Honor which was created in late 1822.

Batalhão do Imperador (Emperor's Battalion): this was the infantry equivalent to the cavalry Imperial Guard of Honor. The celebrated Duke of Caxias (back when he was young and decades before he became a titled nobleman) was part of it. The Emperor's Battalion fought in the War of Independence (in the province of Bahia) and later in the Cisplatine War. It was disbanded along with the Imperial Guard of Honor in 1831. Since both betrayed the Emperor, they were regarded a threat by the government after Pedro I abdicated. (the future Duke of Caxias was na exception: he remained loyal to Pedro I to the very end)

Voluntário da Pátria (Fatherland Volunteer): the Fatherland Volunteers were created in early 1865. Every civilian who volunteered or was conscripted to fight the Paraguayans in the Paraguayan War became a Fatherland Volunteer. They came from all over Brazil. They were ordinary citizens, with no military training. Five years of brutal warfare turned them into highly experienced, battle-hardened men, equiped with state-of-the-art weapons.

Cangaceiro: they were outlaws, bandits, criminals who raped women, castrated men and robbed and ransacked towns. I feel insulted when I see a few people on this forum suggesting these brutal criminals as possible UUs of Brazil. I only mentioned the cangaceiros to make clear that we should stop talking about them. It's really offensive. It's like proposing serial killers as USA's UUs. Disgusting.

Final verdict: the Fatherland Volunteers. Brazilians from every province became Fatherland Volunteers. They are the only truly national unit that could represent Brazil and all Brazilians.

Agreed on everything. Just wanted to point out that Bandeirantes also raped women, castrated men and robbed and ransacked towns. The only difference is that they weren't outlaws, as their actions were sanctioned by the portuguese colonists and agricultural elites, and their massacres were against indingenous (non-white) population.

Cangaceiros also acted on behalf of the agricultural elites, as they were often paid to kill whole families that had small land properties, so big agricultural proprietors (coronéis) could "move in". The literature that sees them as "heroes from the poor" (robin hood-like figures) ignores that kind of action to a great extent.

 

[SamBC]

If Wikipedia is your reference for London being the capital of the Protectorate/Commonwealth, I'm not sure it's accurate - the machinery of state was, I believe, still all in Westminster.

Remember that Westminster and the City of London are the only cities in what's commonly called London - Greater London as a whole is not a city, merely a conurbation. Government offices are mostly in Greater London, to be sure, but the actual formal city most are in is Westminster.

 

[DudewiththeFood]

London, Washington, Beijing all well-known international cities that are instantly associated with their nation. Which city fits that description better, Rio or Brasilia?

I'd say that Rio is more commonly associated with Brazil. Anybody who know Brasilia knows it's in Brazil but a lot more people have heard of Rio - even before the Olympics.

 

[Guandao]

I wonder how I'll play as Brazil. Its UA seems suited for a cultural victory, but we don't know its UU/or UB yet.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

I'm wondering if they are going to use the native american building art, medterrien building art, or Europen building art....

 

[Guandao]

Also their Music set, but I think it'll just be European

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Given that the UA is Golden Age driven, I would say that they will get a building that gives Happiness. Just like how the Persians have the Satrap's Court that is a bank with happiness to help them get their Golden Ages, I think Brazil will have a UB that gives Happiness in addition to its usual output.

maybe:
Futebol Stadium, replacing the Stadium

or

Sambadrome, replacing the Opera House

 

[Fabiano79]

I wonder how I'll play as Brazil. Its UA seems suited for a cultural victory, but we don't know its UU/or UB yet.

We still need to see how tourism really works, but right now Im thinking: Brazil UA + Chichen Itza =

I would love to see Brazil having a unique building art, but I think we will get the same of USA, european.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

We still need to see how tourism really works, but right now Im thinking: Brazil UA + Chichen Itza =

I would love to see Brazil having a unique building art, but I think we will get the same of USA, european.

I'm thinking they will have meddertirian art.

Whenever I see a photo of south american architecture, it seems really meddterianan in style.

Excuse my butchering of the word meddterianan

 

[mitsho]

A sambodrome UB replacing the Opera house and adding 5 points (not generic raw happiness, but more points) sounds like it would fit very well. Though that would put them into the Wide group of civs, so maybe 1 point per population. It's a good fit as it lets you get Carnivals sooner. I wonder whether Carnivals will have something that distinguishes them from other Golden Ages (a special graphic design, special music playing or so...).

The UU that would fit into this part of gameplay would then be one that you can beeline easily and is better on defense than attack. Maybe a rifleman replacement that's in the upper part of the tech tree?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

A sambodrome UB replacing the Opera house and adding 5 points (not generic raw happiness, but more points) sounds like it would fit very well. Though that would put them into the Wide group of civs, so maybe 1 point per population. It's a good fit as it lets you get Carnivals sooner. I wonder whether Carnivals will have something that distinguishes them from other Golden Ages (a special graphic design, special music playing or so...).

The UU that would fit into this part of gameplay would then be one that you can beeline easily and is better on defense than attack. Maybe a rifleman replacement that's in the upper part of the tech tree?

Oh, man. If Brazil played Samba music during Golden Ages that would be awesome. I just expected a typical painting-esque splash screen for when it started, but unique Golden Age music would be so cool.

 

[ferretbacon]

I've been reading the posts speculating on the Brazilian UU (some of which were very informative). Basing my opinion off of these, the Fatherland Volunteers sound like a likely candidate.

That being said, if the developers go down the darker path and choose one of the 'raping, pillaging, murdering, enslaving' units (such as the bandeirante or the evidently terrible cangaceiro), I could see there being an interesting gameplay mechanic in there: a unique promotion, "when you destroy a unit, there is a x% of receiving a worker."

As for a UB/UI, I also suspect it will have something to do with boosting happiness. A Sambodrome sounds plausible. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if there was something that played off plantations, however.

 

[Liex]

Oh, man. If Brazil played Samba music during Golden Ages that would be awesome. I just expected a typical painting-esque splash screen for when it started, but unique Golden Age music would be so cool.

I don't even like samba, but that would be great!

---

@Lecen: Thank you for the information and amazing pics. I think I agree with you on Brasilia as the most probable Capital and the Fatherland volunteers as the UU.

I just want to point out that in some states (São Paulo for sure, perhaps Minas and Goiás as well) the Bandeirantes are quite romanticized, they got a lot of statues and highways named after them. Sometimes, for the game's purposes, that's all that matters.

 

[Veras]

I'm very happy to see my country in the game! Great to see D. Pedro II, great to hear our language!

But I would like to mention that Pedro's welcome is quite impolite. That's a welcome screen that I would accept for some warmonger leaders/civilizations, while Pedro II was known as a wise leader, being considered one of the most enlightened of his time (even compared to european monarchs). So it was very weird to see him giving such an antipathetic greeting. Although the scenario and him signing papers were really nice.

 

[Ricard.Bossle]

Carnival lasts just for a week - very far from a "perpetual party"-, but I'm quite happy with it the way it will be in the game - Artistic license FTW.

But while Carnival is a "National Party", known worldwide, it is not just realized on Sambodromes. Sambrodrome isnt even present in all cities in Brazil, only in the greatest cities. So, I guess it should not be a UB.

On the other hand, today there is a Football Stadium in almost every city in Brazil. And Engenho was a very, very important 'building' in Brazil history. One of these two should be a UB - or a UI, in the case of Engenho.

(Sorry for my poor English.)

 

[Arbustro]

He's not antipathetic, he is a hard working man who has little time for chitchat. I think he is very well represented, an imposing figure, with an amazing beard. Brazil will definatly be the second civ I'll try, right after Portugal