Brazil Unique Unit

[Evie]

The Iroquois fought both for and against the US in the War for Independence, ending a two-century-long policy of neutrality. It tore the Confederacy apart, from which they never recovered (a brief ascendancy of the Mohawk under Joseph Brant notwithstanding). To assert that Native-European relations were only destructive is reductive, but on the whole European Canadians, Americans, and Mexicans have been so destructive to Native cultures that to suggest that they are continuations of their indigenous cultures is patently offensive. They occupy the same geographical locations, but the population was replaced wholesale and left only small cultural influences on their conquerors. (To suggest Native Americans are disappearing is also patently wrong, but they are less than 1% of the population in the USA and for the most part live separately from the general population. Their cultural influence is negligible.)

I wouldn't lump Mexico with the Anglosphere Twins - Mexico's indigenous population numbers (without even touching the Mestizo and what indigenous ancestry they may or may not have) *dwarf* the other two, regardless of which way we look at it (I mean, there are nearly as many fluent Indigenous language speakers in Mexico as there are self-identifying Indigenous people in Canada or the US together, Mexican self-ID estimates range from twice to thrice the combined indigenous self-identifying population of Canada and the US). That doens't mean Mexico is good, just that it's a very different situation from the other two.

As for Canada and the Iroquois, likely no. Most scholars reject the thesis that any of the modern Iroquoian groups is directly descended from the Laurentian Iroquoians (which hasn't stopped both the Hurons and Mohawks from claiming it) - they seem to be associated with the Iroquoian settlements found further down along the Great Lakes. While Montreal was very likely part of Mohawk traditional territory for a great while, there's very little support to the claim that it's their place of origin or the core of their territory. Also, you know, proto-Canada (the French one) and the Iroquois spent a century at each other's throat, so not really the best mix. Besides which, if we want to represent the Colonial nations with Indigenous civilizations, the Cree have by very far the best claim to representing the region that would become Canada. And they're, you know, already in the game.

Back to the rest, I honestly think the Minas Geraes was an interesting choice and wouldn't mind keeping it, but if Brazil were to really get an alternate UU, then yes, the volunteers are the only good choice that's been proposed to date.

 

[Zaarin]

Both speak the same language

Related languages.

I wouldn't lump Mexico with the Anglosphere Twins - Mexico's indigenous population numbers (without even touching the Mestizo and what indigenous ancestry they may or may not have) *dwarf* the other two, regardless of which way we look at it (I mean, there are nearly as many fluent Indigenous language speakers in Mexico as there are self-identifying Indigenous people in Canada or the US together, Mexican self-ID estimates range from twice to thrice the combined indigenous self-identifying population of Canada and the US). That doens't mean Mexico is good, just that it's a very different situation from the other two.

Fair. I still wouldn't call them a legitimate successor state to the Aztec Triple Alliance, Tlaxcalla, Mayapan, or any other indigenous polity, though. You are right that indigenous, particular Nahua, culture has been much more influential in Mexico than in the United States or Canada, though.

Most scholars reject the thesis that any of the modern Iroquoian groups is directly descended from the Laurentian Iroquoians

Trigger, who was probably the leading scholar on early Iroquoian studies before he died, believed that the Laurentians were probably absorbed by the Algonquins and Innu, with perhaps a very small refugee population taken in (or captured) by their traditional enemies, the Huron. Linguistic evidence shows that they were at least two different peoples and that they were more closely related to the Huron/Neutral/Erie than the Five Nations, but archaeological evidence also shows that both the Hochelagans and the Stadaconans were traditional enemies of the Huron. Though their languages were clearly Iroquoian, many of their cultural practices were Algonquian or a blend between Iroquoian and Algonquian, even more so than the Huron, who also maintained close relationships with the Algonquians both north and south of them.

 

[Browd]

Like I said before, the evidence that the Iroquois influenced the US Constitution is slim and highly contentious.

More accurately, non-existent.

Moderator Action: This thread has sailed completely off the rails. Brazil unique unit. Repeat, Brazil unique unit. Get back on topic or this thread will be closed.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Moderator Action: PDMA deleted. Please read and follow site rules. Browd
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

As @Evie said, the Minas Gerae was a very interesting choice, not the best, but certainly interesting. As I have said before many times, a good way for Brazil to have another Unique Unit is to have Pedro II either gain the Fatherland Volunteer Unique Unit or give Pedro II a Persona so that one version of him is focused on Great People, while another is focused more on military and has the Fatherland Volunteer Unit.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I guess the community like the Paraguayan war, and both sides used boats, if this game want to show Brazil as a power house of boats, why don't show one boat used in Paraguayan war?
Maybe for Civilization 7 one boat able to go on rivers as it happens in the Battle of Riachuelo

 

[Evie]

That would require completely changing how rivers have worked since Civ III (rivers going through tiles rather than between tiles). Not too likely an option (beside if anyone were to get a river ship UU or UA, the Viking-themed civ probably has dibs on that.

 

[Zaarin]

That would require completely changing how rivers have worked since Civ III (rivers going through tiles rather than between tiles). Not too likely an option (beside if anyone were to get a river ship UU or UA, the Viking-themed civ probably has dibs on that.

You're right that it's probably unlikely, but an overhaul to rivers would be a highly desirable change IMO.

 

[Evie]

I don't disagree. At all.

But I don't see it happening and even if it does there are better candidate for river-sailing than Brazil, so yeah.

 

[Xandinho]

These are the options for Brazilian UU, besides Minas Geares:

Voluntários da Pátria (already discussed here, and my personal choice)
Pracinhas (included in Civ5, war' veterans that fought in WWII)
Super Tucano (fighter jets that operate in the Amazon rainforest)

However, it's likely that I'm forgetting some.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Super Tucano (fighter jets that operate in the Amazon rainforest)

I don't like Units never used, it's boring.
Witch airplane was used in the Battle of Contestado? In Santa Catarina? Do you remember?
But, if we use one never used brazilian airplane, it should be Santos Dummond's 14bis, the first airplane!

 

[Henri Christophe]

Another difference between Conquistadores and Bandeirantes are. Bandeirantes born in Brasil and Conquistadores in Spain, Bandeirantes aren't Portuguese conquistadores even because most of them don't even know how to speak portuguese.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Another difference between Conquistadores and Bandeirantes are. Bandeirantes born in Brasil and Conquistadores in Spain, Bandeirantes aren't Portuguese conquistadores even because most of them don't even know how to speak portuguese.

Just because some couldn't speak Portuguese or were not native Portuguese doesn't mean they weren't Portuguese versions of conquistadors. They served the Portuguese crown and claimed some land for them, so they were basically Portuguese conquistadors. You could probably find some non-Spanish conquistadors as well.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Just because some couldn't speak Portuguese or were not native Portuguese doesn't mean they weren't Portuguese versions of conquistadors. They served the Portuguese crown and claimed some land for them, so they were basically Portuguese conquistadors. You could probably find some non-Spanish conquistadors as well.

they also don't serve to Portuguese crown, they act for their own behalfs and the king Philipe II of Spain, first of Portugual excomungated all Bandeirantes because they are attacking Jesuitic Missions.
Bandeirantes was just used by Portuguese Crown in ~1750 as argue to why Brazilian boarders should go to no-mans land of south america, but at this time doesn't existed more bandeirantes who was around ~1600

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

they also don't serve to Portuguese crown, they act for their own behalfs and the king Philipe II of Spain, first of Portugual excomungated all Bandeirantes because they are attacking Jesuitic Missions.
Bandeirantes was just used by Portuguese Crown in ~1750 as argue to why Brazilian boarders should go to no-mans land of south america, but at this time doesn't existed more bandeirantes who was around ~1600

They did technically, as the Portuguese governor would give rewards to those who discovered gold and silver deposits, so while not specifically the Portuguese king, they did serve Portugal. Just with their self-interests more in mind.

 

[Zaarin]

You could probably find some non-Spanish conquistadors as well.

Indeed, many conquistadors were Basques, at least one was a Guanche, and there were even a few who were African.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Portuguese governor would give rewards to those who discovered gold and silver deposits

when gold was discovered in Minas Gerais had a war between Bandeirantes and Other white people from the coast (Portuguese) called war of Emboabas, Emboabas in Tupi-GUarani means foreigner. As they understand the white people from the coast (as Bahia and Rio de Janeiro) as foreigner.

I'm making this argue because I really believe Bandeirantes should appear in CIv 7 as Brazilian Unique Unit, and this community don't understand brazilian history as I do, of 500 years old history, despite just be independent in 1822 the world "Brazilian" was used since 1500. The Bandeirantes are called Paulista after the city of São Paulo and Brazilians under the state of Brazil. *at the time was two big states, BRazil and Maranhão.*