Latin American Civilizations and City-States

[Caesar of Bread]

Yrigoyen would be a great leader for Argentina. I’d rather stick with the Mapuche for Patagonia‘s addition.

 

[Patine]

I’d rather stick with the Mapuche for Patagonia‘s addition.

There's not a specific reason to only have one, if one is thinking wholistically, and not in artifical, "slots."

 

[Henri Christophe]

I’d rather stick with the Mapuche for Patagonia‘s addition.

There's not a specific reason to only have one, if one is thinking wholistically, and not in artifical, "slots."

I agree with Patine both could appear together.

Despite if Argentina become a civ, since Brazil is stable, it should have a Guarani civ to do the Guerra Guazu scenario.

 

[pineappledan]

Does “wholistic” in this context just mean 100+ civs?

 

[Patine]

As I've said, I made no statements on specific regions or continents, just a criticism for, "quotas," and, "caps," as an, artificial, inhiibitng, hamstringing concept, and I'd rather have no further ad hominen attacks or baseless presumtpions on what I say, until I release my own list of proposed civ's and THEN - and only then - you can pick it apart as thoroughly as is credibily possible. Am I clear?

 

[pineappledan]

Am I clear?

...No? I wouldn't say you're being especially clear. In fact I would say what you're doing is evasive. That's not an answer.

You bandy about words like "wholistic", and claim that you would avoid caps and quotas, without saying how you could break out of any supposed limitation. You’ve basically said that your list is going to be awesome and have no problems or deficiencies, but refused to provide any specifics, and then preemptively call me out for attacking you when I ask you to clarify your statements.

 

[Xandinho]

So is the working definition of “Latin American” anything geographically south of Texas, irrespective of timing?

Seems weird to call Caral Latin-American.

I use the geographical criterion, since Latin America is not a big homogeneous cultural bubble - Mesoamerican and Andean civilizations are very different from each other. Haiti is very different from Cuba. Guarani is very different from Mapuche and the latter is very different from Tupi. Brazil is very distinct from its neighboring nations. Paraguay is more unique than any modern nation on the continent.

Argentina is a good civ. But Eva Peron (or the other two Perons, Juan and Isabella) have to go, frankly. Eva may look good in that movie with Madonna, but she's little more than a mouthpiece and cheerleader for her Fascist, totalitarian, intolerant socially backleaning husband, and thus seems like an awful choice, under all the glaze of (propagandist), "postergirl of national struggle," she's portrayed with. Argentina needs a REAL leader - not a fetishized, bad cliche.

Talking about Argentina, I really need to update its design. It's overly cultural. Maybe I'll change its civilization ability or its unique building (or both) to add some trade bonuses that reflect its commodities trading. As for Evita, I just think she's a good leader to interact with specialists, an overlooked mechanism in Civ6, but I'm thinking of adding a second leader.

 

[Patine]

You’ve basically said that your list is going to be awesome and have no problems or deficiencies,

I said none of this, but this is an example of what I am criticizing. I'm not fighting over this - I've said my piece, until I release a list - for which I made NO such self-aggrandizing claims.

 

[Patine]

As for Evita, I just think she's a good leader

No, she's not. She's a pretty face of Fascist propaganda. It would be little different that having Leni Riefenstahl for Germany or Ann Coulter for America.

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[Henri Christophe]

Fascist propaganda

Fascism was very different in South America, so different we should call it Populism instead, to avoid mistake of European Fascismus.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Fascism was very different in South America, so different we should call it Populism instead, to avoid mistake of European Fascismus.

Fascism anywhere is Fascism.

 

[Patine]

Fascism was very different in South America, so different we should call it Populism instead, to avoid mistake of European Fascismus.

Fascism is highly contextual everywhere it appears. It varies widely by the nation and ethnicty being pandered to, and the toxic historical nostalgia being played upon. All of the different parties and movements in the WW2 era that are, or could be called, Fascism, were very different in rhetoric, beleifs, and focus from each other - they were tied together by some core beleifs and, mostly, methods and basic principles. "Populism," is a broad-based and almost generic concept that is, by definition, a campaigning, promotion, and advocacy form for political beliefs - not a style of the beliefs, themselves. Insisting that South American Fascism must be called, "Populism," and treated as inherently differently denies that the mistakes of European Fascist ideology have ALREADY been commited by South American Governments, and an insistence of denying it

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Fascism is highly contextual everywhere it appears. It varies widely by the nation and ethnicty being pandered to, and the toxic historical nostalgia being played upon. All of the different parties and movements in the WW2 era that are, or could be called, Fascism, were very different in rhetoric, beleifs, and focus from each other - they were tied together by some core beleifs and, mostly, methods and basic principles. "Populism," is a broad-based and almost generic concept that is, by definition, a campaigning, promotion, and advocacy form for political beliefs - not a style of the beliefs, themselves. Insisting that South American Fascism must be called, "Populism," and treated as inherently differently denies that the mistakes of European Fascist ideology have ALREADY been commited by South American Governments, and an insistence of denying it

I agree with my friend here. Peron and Vargas should not be leaders, whether or not Madonna played as Evita.

 

[pineappledan]

I said none of this, but this is an example of what I am criticizing. I'm not fighting over this - I've said my piece, until I release a list - for which I made NO such self-aggrandizing claims.

Still avoiding the question. what does it mean to "think wholistically (sic), and not in artificial slots?

 

[Caesar of Bread]

There's not a specific reason to only have one, if one is thinking wholistically, and not in artifical, "slots."

i mean I guess you are right

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Talking about Argentina, I really need to update its design. It's overly cultural. Maybe I'll change its civilization ability or its unique building (or both) to add some trade bonuses that reflect its commodities trading. As for Evita, I just think she's a good leader to interact with specialists, an overlooked mechanism in Civ6, but I'm thinking of adding a second leader.

I think the design is fine. Whenever I think of Argentina, I think of culture anyways. As for trading bonuses you could always add some to the civ ability. Maybe a gold/culture/tourism boost for international trade routes per bonus or luxury resource in the origin city to go with "Paris of South America"?

 

[pineappledan]

whenever I think of Argentina I just think of beef.

 

[reddishrecue]

I think the design is fine. Whenever I think of Argentina, I think of culture anyways. As for trading bonuses you could always add some to the civ ability. Maybe a gold/culture/tourism boost for international trade routes per bonus or luxury resource in the origin city to go with "Paris of South America"?

I also think of Argentina as culture of South America because of Buenos Aires and its city state that's cultural.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Vargas

Do you could understand a leader as Vargas as Fascist, but Brazil had a fascist movement called Integralistas, who had a Tupi-Guarani saudation: "Anauê".
And Vargas proibited the fascist party, along side the comunist party from Brazil during his dictatorial regim.
So, I would ask, why we consider Vargas a fascist if he isn't integrated on the fascist party of Brazil?

 

[Patine]

Do you could understand a leader as Vargas as Fascist, but Brazil had a fascist movement called Integralistas, who had a Tupi-Guarani saudation: "Anauê".
And Vargas proibited the fascist party, along side the comunist party from Brazil during his dictatorial regim.
So, I would ask, why we consider Vargas a fascist if he isn't integrated on the fascist party of Brazil?

Fascist leaders prohibiting rival Fascist movements whose narrative differs somewhat has precedent. The Nazis ousted Schussnigg's Catholic-Fascist Fatherland Front after the 1938 Anschluss, for instance. So, it is a fallacy to say a given nation has only ONE possible Fascist Party or Movement, with a DEFINITIVE article, and and no others can be callled by that label. That's not how it works.