bring back the armys

[High_Elf_Lord-M]

i loved making armies in civ3 why are they gone boo hoo hoo!




"i miss being a communist goverment too ahh well theres always police state with nationhood!"

 

[Psyringe]

Imho armies in Civ3 where nothing but an exploit. If the AI had used them, I'd have liked them. But it doesn't, not at all. And armies were very powerful tools, so they gave the player a decisive advantage against the AI. Not my cup of tea. I prefer to be on even footing with the AI, or - if the AI is to dumb to be competitive, which is usually the case - give bonuses to the AI, not the player.

 

[microbe]

It's the typical CIV4 mentality: take away features because AI doesn't know how to use them smartly.

You traded to catch up? No more such trading in CIV4.
You warred to conquer the world? No more easy capturing cities.
You could use armies? Guess what, they are gone too.

So instead of improving the AI they take away the problem.

 

[Psyringe]

So instead of improving the AI they take away the problem.

If that were the case, than they would have taken away naval transports instead of teaching the AI to do landfalls.

 

[Nilrim]

It's the typical CIV4 mentality: take away features because AI doesn't know how to use them smartly.

You traded to catch up? No more such trading in CIV4.
You warred to conquer the world? No more easy capturing cities.
You could use armies? Guess what, they are gone too.

So instead of improving the AI they take away the problem.

I could NOT agree more!!! For Civ V they need to forget about added features that take more then a day or two to add, they need to put %100 time and resources into making a better AI.
The Civ line has evolved since Civ I, yes I played Civ I and up. Many new features have come in each new release only to be removed in the next game because the AI could not handle the feature. It is time for them to put maximum effort into the AI so that the Civ line can continue to grow and be refreshed. Without a good AI improvement all the neat new features are just window dressing.

 

[DrWu]

Imho armies in Civ3 where nothing but an exploit. If the AI had used them, I'd have liked them. But it doesn't, not at all. And armies were very powerful tools, so they gave the player a decisive advantage against the AI. Not my cup of tea. I prefer to be on even footing with the AI, or - if the AI is to dumb to be competitive, which is usually the case - give bonuses to the AI, not the player.

AI used armies against me in civ 3...

 

[High_Elf_Lord-M]

they did against me also at monarch level.

 

[Psyringe]

That's strange, I never encountered an AI army - and I've probably dumped a four-digit-number of hours into this game. But if you encountered them, I have to retract that statement about the AI never using armies, of course. I still wonder why I never met them though.

 

[handy900]

...and I've probably dumped a four-digit-number of hours into this game.

Welcome to the 4 digit club.
I've seen AI armies, but they were somewhat rare and never used well at all.

I miss them alot. Overpowered or not, they were alot of fun to play with in AW games. I don't think we could have beaten AWD without them, and I really don't understand why they took them out. Players that felt they were overbalanced always had the option to play a self imposed variant with no armies. In C4 those of us that loved to play with them don't have the option.

 

[MeteorPunch]

The AI made armies in vanilla Civ 3.

I would like them to bring back armies too, but on 2 conditions:

1. Tell the AI to use them.
2. Make them more similar to Vanilla/PtW armies, not the overpowered C3C ones.


Also I like the idea of have a Soldier specialist. When the Great Person points hits 100%, a Military Great Leader is formed. He then could be used to either:

1. Build a military special building (+4 Experience points, for example).
2. Discover a military tech.
3. Form an army. (limit the number of armies based on cities like in Civ 3).

 

[Steelsmith]

I honestly don't miss them. An army of Knights is useful in medieval times, but what good is it in the modern age? In Civ3, I found myself parking my Knight armies on some hill near the capital once they were outdated, and pretended it was a monument.

Armies were needed in Civ3 because it was difficult for even strong units to overcome defenders in high-population cities. I remember spending turn after turn bombarding cities to get their population under 12 so they didn't have such ungodly defensive bonuses. The way bombardment and collateral damage work in Civ4, armies aren't needed, and I frankly like the new way better.

 

[markdata]

Absolutely.

 

[slothman]

1. Build a military special building (+4 Experience points, for example).
2. Discover a military tech.
3. Form an army. (limit the number of armies based on cities like in Civ 3).

Actually a great soldier is a good name.
The problem with "general" is that it might be for navies.

For the other great people there are 4 options.
Golden age, tech, super-specialist, and other.
The others are:
Great Merchant, giving a trade route and gold
Engineer, giving wonder rushing
Phrophet, building religion specific wonder
Scientist, creating acadamy
Artist, culture bomb.

Both an army and a building would be too much.
One of them is good though.

 

[gradenko_2000]

The problem with putting armies together at this point is the sheer overpowered traits it would posses. Stack a Maceman, a Longbowman and a Pikeman together and you've got a 20+ strength unit running around with first strike and bonuses against three types of units. And that's just for the base unit - promotions are going to make it into a mega-tank with the ability to roll-over cities like a fat kid goes through cake.

 

[slothman]

Maybe it wouldn't have all the advantages.
Maybe only the smallest bonus for all the units.
If you have a 25% for one and a 50% for another then the army only get 25%.
In civ3 it was done by using the lowest speed to find the net speed.

Even if no armies a super-barracks might be good.
Gives like 8 XP to each unit.

Or possibly decreasing cost for military units in that city.

 

[Kavatar]

The problem with putting armies together at this point is the sheer overpowered traits it would posses. Stack a Maceman, a Longbowman and a Pikeman together and you've got a 20+ strength unit running around with first strike and bonuses against three types of units. And that's just for the base unit - promotions are going to make it into a mega-tank with the ability to roll-over cities like a fat kid goes through cake.

I agree, the concept of armies - or at least how they were implemented in Civ 3 - isn't really compatible with the new battle system. They were already overpowering enough in Civ 3, and I don't think "teaching" the AI how to use them would help all that much.

 

[Pie-es-Tasty]

I really hated the armies in Civ III. I would have much rather put that great leader into building a wonder. The thing was, units couldn't be taken out of them, so they quickly became useless. I would rather have 2 modern units than an army full of obsolete ones. Plus with the new combat system, the armies would be unstoppable behemoths, like gradenko said.

 

[Jecrell]

Armies were rediculously overpowered in Civ III. I don't really see the point in bringing back the concept.

Although I'd agree with a "Great General" that you can attach to a single troop and will give a particular set of bonuses to that troop. That would be nice. Like two-three free promotions and the general leading the troop.

 

[slothman]

I still like the idea when the Great Soldier can stand with the troops and increase their power.
Basically all units on the same tile would get a upgrade in effective strength.
Or just a simple way where it could distribute like 100 XP to the various units in the city.
You could decide what gets what though.
Maybe give a longbowman 20 XP and a tank 80.
I don't know what are good values though.
100 XP might be too much or too little.

 

[Acceptable_Loss]

I was not a fan of armies in civ 3 and I'm glad they're not in civ 4
As has already been stated armies were very overpowered. If you were warring an opponent and one of you was lucky and gained an army you got an extreme advantage
Civ 4 has a much better combat system in the experience system. It never made sence that you needed a military leader to biuld armies. An army is really just an organized group of units which can be represented in civ 4 by a group of experienced units.