Britain is leaving the EU

[Arakhor]

There'll be crumpets over the white cliffs of Dover, tomorrow, when Britain is free...

 

[Manfred Belheim]

In (very vaguely) related news, the noted scholar and ecclesiastic Alcuin of York died today in AD 804. He's not particularly well-known, but he was famously quoted as saying, And do not listen to those who keep saying, 'The voice of the people is the voice of God', because the tumult of the crowd is always close to madness.

Who'd have thought he'd be on to something, 1200 years beforehand?

One could interpret that either way really. I mean.. they don't call them reMOANers for nothing

 

[EvaDK]

Except the EU can't quite know what "business as usual" with a post-Brexit Britain will mean, of what such a British "thing" will be.

By the looks of the Daily Mail, to which PM May clings like a damsel in distress (or at least her policy is to take her cues from it, and never, ever do anything out of line in relation to it), this could mean declaring everyone in Europe a Nazi and tossing crumpets at them from the white cliffs of Dover.

This is just me guessing out of my behind, so to speak, but I reckon that the EU27 will simply 'move on' from a Post-Brexit (and Post-Theresa May) scenario and wait for cooler heads to be elected into Government in the UK. People with realistic approaches to a future UK-EU relationship. When that happens, the EU will be happy to take up talks again with the British.

 

[Arakhor]

One could interpret that either way really. I mean.. they don't call them reMOANers for nothing

The second part, certainly, but the first part is unambiguous about what he's railing against. It's particularly appropriate in these days of resurgent populism and the Government piously claiming to be fulfilling "the will of the people".

 

[Hrothbern]

You can't blame a cleric for wanting to enhance the power of the church, but who knows? Maybe it wasn't intended to do that. Lots of seemingly good ideas turn out to have unforeseen consequences.

smile and agree

Charles the Great wanted very much to develop his people with schooling and everything and Alcuin was his architect and counselor for the Carolingian Renaissance.
Many good intentions

 

[Hrothbern]

The second part, certainly, but the first part is unambiguous about what he's railing against. It's particularly appropriate in these days of resurgent populism and the Government piously claiming to be fulfilling "the will of the people".

The will of the people

In the romantic period in Germany, the nation building period of Europe, it originated as "Das gesunde Volksempfinden"
literally translated: the healthy people feeling"
Meaning the apparent authentic feeling of the people of the nation.

It became one of the key instruments of the Nazi party in her early period
Quoting the Italian fascist Mussolini and the Dutch fascist Mussert: "debating with arguments was for liberals and not needed anymore: the people had spoken"

It was I think very fitting that Hitler called his empire the Third Reich, the Third Holy Empire.
He had the Divine Right, not of God but of the People.

And by that... we are back at the statement of Alcuin from 800: "And do not listen to those who keep saying, 'The voice of the people is the voice of God', because the tumult of the crowd is always close to madness".

 

[Thorgalaeg]

So he thought God was crazy. Nobody burnt him at the stake like Stephen Fry?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

The second part, certainly, but the first part is unambiguous about what he's railing against. It's particularly appropriate in these days of resurgent populism and the Government piously claiming to be fulfilling "the will of the people".

I'd say the first part too. Remoaners* may well be saying "actually the voice of those people is not God", but at the same time they're clearly trying to assert their own voice as that of God** in their place, so the first part applies to them just as much. Or at the very least you're saying the government shouldn't listen to them either. In which case you're just saying there shouldn't have been a referendum I suppose.

But I don't see how there's anything pious about holding a referendum and then abiding by the majority vote.

* just using this term for brevity and simplicity
** ditto

 

[Verbose]

So he thought God was crazy. Nobody burnt him at the stake like Stephen Fry?

More like he didn't think god spoke through popular opinion. So a little less barmy than that.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Ah, didnt read it correctly.

 

[Arakhor]

.But I don't see how there's anything pious about holding a referendum and then abiding by the majority vote.

You may have missed the hundred or so times May or her cronies invoked the will of the people to justify absolutely any stance on Europe, without ever bothering to actually refer to the people (or their representatives the MPs) until they were forced to by law.

If May actually asked the country "stay or leave with no deal because that's better than seeming to be dictated to by Europe", you can guarantee that we wouldn't be doing the whole Brexit thing now.

 

[Takhisis]

I can't tell whether Thorgalaeg's comment about the EU lasting for a thousand years is yet another fit of compliance with Godwyn's law or not.