[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

[The Capo]

Awesome, thank you.

I'm still trying to get this damned Olympic thing figured out. Hopefully all of the wonders don't take this much effort.

Although, with my luck they will be. After I get the Olympics to work then I'm probably going to move on to Leo's, which I think will add hammers, give points towards a Great Engineer, and cause -50% Unit Upgrade cost. Maybe like +6 culture or something too. I don't know.

 

[cybrxkhan]

For some reason it took me a long time to get all the buildings and wonders straight for WoL, but maybe that was just me.



Also, now that I'm about 80% or so finished with the original list of leaders you gave me, will there be any more afterwards? Like with your modules?

 

[The Capo]

I suppose I could give you the order they are coming in and which leaders will be present:

The Americas:

• Canada - Macdonald, and MacKenzie Lyon or whatever his name was.
• Brazil - Dom Pedro II
• Cuba - Jose Marti and Fidel Castro
• Mexico - Santa Anna and Benito Juarez (Father Hidalgo was in last time, and if Ekmek doesn't finish Juarez then he'll be in again)
• Argentina - Juan Peron, and San Martin
• Gran Colombia - Simon Bolivar, Hugo Chavez (I might remove Chavez)

Module Pack II:

• Hausa - Azuaza (I totally misspelled that) and Dan Fodio
• Congo - Afonso/Nimi and Mobutu
• Minoans - Minos and Satur
• Australia - Menzies and Curtin
• Iran - Shah Abbas, Ayatollah Khomeini, and Mahmoud Ahmedinejad (I might remove Mahmoud)
• Assyrians - Sennacherib, Ashurbanipal

Europe I:

• Austria - Franz Josef, Metternich
• Bulgaria - Stambolov
• Denmark - Christian IV, Margrete
• Finland - Urho Kekkonen
• Ireland - Brian Boru, Michael Collins'
• Switzerland - Dufour
• Ukraine - Yaroslav, and Yuschenko
• Papal States - Gregory and Leo, or whoever Ekmek made

Europe II:

• Italy - Medici, Mussolini, Garibaldi
• Lithuania - Mindaugas
• Poland - Lech Walesa, Casimir, Pilsudski (sp?)
• Romania - Vlad Tepes, Michael the Brave
• Scotland - Robert the Bruce, Mary Stuart
• Serbia - Dusan, Josip Broz Tito
• Sweden - Gustav Vasa, Gustav Adolph
• Belgium - Leopold

Module Pack III:

• Apache - Geronimo, Cochise
• Hittites - Suppilulima (sp?), Mursilis
• Haiti - Papa Doc Duvalier, Toussaint L'Ouverture
• Phillipenes - Ferdinand Marcos
• Puerto Rico - Jose Marin Munoz
• Siam - Ramkamheang and Mongkut

The Natives:

• Inuits - Nanuq (or something better)
• Tupi - Cunhambebe
• Arawak - That guy from Colonization
• Mapuche - Lazaro or whatever his name is, notice me getting a bit iffy now...
• Cherokee - ?
• Aborigines - I have no idea

Module Pack IV:

• Norway - Haakon and Gerhardsen
• South Africa - Mandela and Botha, maybe different, I have time to think
• Pakistan - Benazir Bhutto
• Indonesia - Suharto
• Berbers - Al-Kahina, that dude you made
• I have no idea who the sixth will be.

Enemies of Rome:

• Etruria - Lars Porsenna
• Thracians - Cersobleptes
• Dacians - I don't know
• Lombards - I forget how to spell it
• Goths - Alaric and Theodoric
• Parthians - I don't know

The Crusades:

• Kingdom of Jerusalem - Baldwin
• Mamlukes - there are a few out there
• Normans ?
• Moors - ?
• Knights Templar - Jacques de Molay
• I have no idea for the last one

Just For Fun:

• USSR - Lenin, Trotsky, Zukhov, (Stalin)
• Nazi Germany - (Hitler), Rommel
• Greek Myth/Atlantis - Poseidon, Zeus
• Amazons - Hyppotlia (I probably mangled that one)
• Vampires - Dracula
• Something else, probably.

Yeah at the end there they get a bit cloudy, and I might switch a few around here and there, but that is my general idea. The first four sets or so are set in stone though.

 

[The Capo]

Anyway, obviously that list can and probably will change quite a bit. But there's good news, I got that damned Hagenbeck/Olympics thing to work finally. Here's a screen shot:

All I have to do is remove the free horse resource and add two more happy (you think +4 happiness is too much for the Olympics?). There are a couple of things I don't like about it that I want to amend too. First there is no alert that the Olympics have started, I currently have it set to start at 1890, but unless you have the first city to get it (which I didn't) you don't know it started, nor do you know which city it is in if it is a foreign city. So I'd like to try and fix that if I can before the final release.

Anyway, now I can move on and start knocking out some of these other wonders. The next one I'm adding is Leonardo's Workshop. I'm basically trying to get all of the python ones out of the way first because they are a bit more difficult to add. I'd still like a few more suggestions and ideas for the wonders, particularly maybe a couple for the ancient age (I was thinking of Petra, maybe some type of bonus for desert tiles or something). And where shoudl Machu Picchu be?

EDIT: And while you're here, which button do you like better for Leonardo's Workshop? I don't like the button that comes with Tsentom's, it's black and white and I think these look better anyway.

 

[The Capo]

And this is what I figured I could use for Sun Tzu's War Academy. It is a little more high poly than normal, but it is only a wonder so only one will show up during the game anyway. I think it looks pretty good, and looks like some tricky war-plans could be developed there. I'm not exactly sure what to use as a button just yet though, a picture of Sun Tzu looks kinda odd, at least the ones I could find (it almost looks kinda like it should be an LH-button, or a button from HoTK if that makes sense), I could use the picture of the way the work really looks, on the wooden panels, but that might be confusing for some people and it might not look great as a button, then I was thinking of putting a generic Chinese warrior there. Not quite sure yet.

Thoughts?

 

[AbsintheRed]

It looks awesome!!
Altough Walter Hawkgood posted a lower polygoned one in Geomodder's thread.
I would still use this one if the big polycount is not an issue here...

Anyway, I'm glad that my idea for Olympics worked out well

 

[The Capo]

It looks awesome!!
Altough Walter Hawkgood posted a lower polygoned one in Geomodder's thread.
I would still use this one if the big polycount is not an issue here...

Anyway, I'm glad that my idea for Olympics worked out well

Well, I'm still going to use it because the one WH posted was too, I don't know, kinda lame in the sense that it doesn't say "wonder of the world" to me. What about the buttons for Leonardo's Workshop?

 

[AbsintheRed]

I prefer the first one. Everyone knows that image, so then it's obvious for everyone.

EDIT: I have some time now, so I will look around for wonders.
Just a quick check, whats your current plans for the new ones?

EDIT2: Machu Picchu can be Classical, and there is more room there if u add both KRC and STWA for medieval

 

[AbsintheRed]

Btw, I downloaded the first module pack.
First, the good news: I have all 6 civs and 8 leaders there, and they seems to be working, the game started with no problems, just some of the new ignoreable problems you mentioned

Second, the bad news (at least for me): You didn't include Matthias and/or Arpad for Hungary
And I think it would be cool to have Ruga too for the Huns, it's a really awesome LH with The_Coyote's small modificiations...

 

[The Capo]

Btw, I downloaded the first module pack.
First, the good news: I have all 6 civs and 8 leaders there, and they seems to be working, the game started with no problems, just some of the new ignoreable problems you mentioned

Second, the bad news (at least for me): You didn't include Matthias and/or Arpad for Hungary
And I think it would be cool to have Ruga too for the Huns, it's a really awesome LH with The_Coyote's small modificiations...

Hungary will get another leader, this is a playtest after all, I don't give it all up on the first date.

It is doubtful that I will add another leader to the Huns, but I will consider it. The reason being two-fold; one, Ruga looks too much like Genghis Khan for my tastes and two, the traits and personalities will be pretty similar anyway. I'll consider it though, it isn't the final release.

Leo's went in without a hitch. I liked the first button too, but I went with the second one for now (it's just the first thing I happened to click in the folder when I transferred it in), we'll see what everyone else thinks and I'll change it (I probably will anyway). The Sun Tzu's War Academy I'm adding is like an ancient Pentagon basically (+2 XP in all cities, 25% GG points in and outside borders, +4 culture, expires with military tradition), which is cool with me. But the way they have it right now it requires only Monarchy. I was thinking Monarchy and Literature would be more appropriate, what do you guys think?

I think I'm going to change the expiration tech from military tradition to Gunpowder though.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Monarchy and Literature would be more appropriate, in my opinion.

By the way, are you adding any new techs? Or just keeping them the same more or less?

 

[The Capo]

Monarchy and Literature would be more appropriate, in my opinion.

By the way, are you adding any new techs? Or just keeping them the same more or less?

I'm leaving the regular techs alone. I added NextWar, which adds some techs, and I will add a few to the future-era but that's it.

Okay, the next one I plan on adding after Sun Tzu's is Copernicus' Observatory. There are two options for this. First there is THIS ONE by GaiusOctavius. It gives (I assume the city) +100% science output, can turn two citizens into scientist (I think a free scientist would be better though in this case), and +4 culture.

Another option is THIS ONE, which is Tsentom's wonder. It uses python and creates different zodiac signs, or whatever, that give the wonder different bonuses. The idea is kind of cool if you think about it, but at the same time I'm a bit iffy. First of all, I have no idea what this has to do with Copernicus. Secondly, isn't the idea that astrology is at work here sort of COUNTER to the ideas of Copernicus anyway? It is a cool feature though.

Finally, I could probably come up with something myself. Maybe using Gaius Octavius' as a base. It could be +100% science output in the city, and then something like +1 beaker per Observatory and University or something like that. I'm not too sure. Or we could always ditch CO altogether. Thoughts?

 

[cybrxkhan]

^If you like the idea for Copernicus, you could just use the Choemsemounsgomae (or whatever it's spelled) wonder to have that effect.

Although the ideas of Copernicus didn't necessarily counter the ideas of astrology per se, so far as I know, since astrology was still practiced by many scientists of the day (since back then astrology and astronomy were more or less considered to be the same) well into the 1700s. But I do agree that I have no idea what the @#$% zodiac signs have to do with Copernicus.

 

[Edgecrusher]

A few more things I noted form my first playthrough.

Does BUG break multiplayer?
Just to test it out, I installed the mod on a second computer in my house and tried to setup a multiplayer game.
It appeared that each computer could not see each other while playing the mod, however multiplayer worked fine using unmodded Civ4,

Anyway, might be something others should look at.


Other than that, the game seemed to play fine. There were occasional lag times between turns, but nothing more then a couple of seconds.

1 Suggestion I have is in regards to the font file.

The attitude icons, I would change them to the following colors
Furious -- Red
Annoyed -- Orange
Cautions -- Yellow
Pleased -- Blue
Friendly -- Green

What this does is matches the "thread index" in the BUG military advisor, creating a consistant color scheme.

Red --> Severe --> Furious
Orange --> High --> Annoyed
Yellow --> Elevated --> Cautious
Blue -- Guarded --> Pleased
Green --> Low --> Friendly

Just a thought. I believe right now it goes
Red - Blue - Grey - Green - Yellow?

The last thing I would say is be careful with the Python, If I remember, all that code creates tremendous lag in the game. Especially for a multiplayer game.

 

[The Capo]

A few more things I noted form my first playthrough.

Does BUG break multiplayer?
Just to test it out, I installed the mod on a second computer in my house and tried to setup a multiplayer game.
It appeared that each computer could not see each other while playing the mod, however multiplayer worked fine using unmodded Civ4,

Anyway, might be something others should look at.


Other than that, the game seemed to play fine. There were occasional lag times between turns, but nothing more then a couple of seconds.

1 Suggestion I have is in regards to the font file.

The attitude icons, I would change them to the following colors
Furious -- Red
Annoyed -- Orange
Cautions -- Yellow
Pleased -- Blue
Friendly -- Green

What this does is matches the "thread index" in the BUG military advisor, creating a consistant color scheme.

Red --> Severe --> Furious
Orange --> High --> Annoyed
Yellow --> Elevated --> Cautious
Blue -- Guarded --> Pleased
Green --> Low --> Friendly

Just a thought. I believe right now it goes
Red - Blue - Grey - Green - Yellow?

The last thing I would say is be careful with the Python, If I remember, all that code creates tremendous lag in the game. Especially for a multiplayer game.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am not going to TOUCH BUG right now. You should probably make those suggestions in the BUG thread. And I really want to avoid adding too much python too. I don't know if BUG breaks MP games or not, never attempted to check, and probably should have because the first version of this mod was intended for MP games, this version is not intended for MP as much as the first one was (the first one, LITERALLY, was made to be played MP) but I'd still like the option. So if BUG does break MP I'm gonna have some words for whoever told me to use BUG... and it's somewhere in this thread...

 

[The Capo]

^If you like the idea for Copernicus, you could just use the Choemsemounsgomae (or whatever it's spelled) wonder to have that effect.

Although the ideas of Copernicus didn't necessarily counter the ideas of astrology per se, so far as I know, since astrology was still practiced by many scientists of the day (since back then astrology and astronomy were more or less considered to be the same) well into the 1700s. But I do agree that I have no idea what the @#$% zodiac signs have to do with Copernicus.

Well yeah, they're the same wonder basically. I don't really know if I like that type of wonder though. I don't see a reason why you should get a dfiferent benefit depending on the zodiac. I mean, how does that make any sense?

Maybe I'll take care of CERN after Sun Tzu then. I looked to see if there was any wonder movies for Sun Tzu's and there is not.

If anyone reading this has any capabilities when it comes to making wondermovies, or movies in general, or whatever (I have no idea where to begin on this myself), I would very very very much appreciate a Sun Tzu's Art of War wondermovie.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Well yeah, they're the same wonder basically. I don't really know if I like that type of wonder though. I don't see a reason why you should get a dfiferent benefit depending on the zodiac. I mean, how does that make any sense?

Maybe I'll take care of CERN after Sun Tzu then. I looked to see if there was any wonder movies for Sun Tzu's and there is not.

If anyone reading this has any capabilities when it comes to making wondermovies, or movies in general, or whatever (I have no idea where to begin on this myself), I would very very very much appreciate a Sun Tzu's Art of War wondermovie.

Well, I tend to be a bit lax when the benefits don't make sense. I mean in the normal game some of the bonuses don't make much sense, either, like the Pyramids allowing for all government civics (what the @#$% does that have to do with government form?), or Chichen Itza granting +25% city defense (Chichen Itza's a city... so I don't see the connection). So I consider it fine to have bonuses that are a bit iffy. However, it's your choice anyways.

As for wonder movies and movies in general, the person you should look for is Arian (I think that's how you spell it?). If I am the music man for now, he has been the movie man forever. He has a movie thread where you can request movies. See here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=277651

 

[IgorS]

Capo, looking at the list you made of the LHs in the modpacks, I think you should discuss with us before releasing any modpack which LHs, UUs and UBs will be there. I just noticed in that list many LHs were forgotten and not included. So, when time comes don't forget to consult us.

 

[The Capo]

Capo, looking at the list you made of the LHs in the modpacks, I think you should discuss with us before releasing any modpack which LHs, UUs and UBs will be there. I just noticed in that list many LHs were forgotten and not included. So, when time comes don't forget to consult us.

There are a lot of reasons why I don't have EVERY possible leader for a modular civ. The first is obvious, and that is that there isn't art or I do not intend on making art for them. I want to have high standards when it comes to art, so if I don't think an LH is that good, I won't add the leader to the civ. Second, sometimes leaders for a civ can get repetitive (I feel like there wouldn't be much difference between Ruga and Atilla in personality as far as Civ goes at least), and third, and I have said this before. I am not entirely interested in packing as much as I can in for my modular civs. I like then to have around one or two leaders each (some civs will get three, but not many). And I really want their traits and personalities to differ a lot if possible.

Having said all that, do I ever forget to consult you guys?

Anyway I got both Sun Tzu's and Leo's in and working (see attachments). I want to get CERN in next but I'm not entirely sure what it's effect should be, or what techs it should use. I think what I wanted to do was use a late-modern tech and maybe one tech from Next War so it kinda spans eras (even though CERN is older than that would be). Superconductor and something else perhaps.

I'm thinking of having it grant a free tech, and then one other effect. Sort of like a better Oracle. Ideas?

 

[IgorS]

There are a lot of reasons why I don't have EVERY possible leader for a modular civ. The first is obvious, and that is that there isn't art or I do not intend on making art for them. I want to have high standards when it comes to art, so if I don't think an LH is that good, I won't add the leader to the civ. Second, sometimes leaders for a civ can get repetitive (I feel like there wouldn't be much difference between Ruga and Atilla in personality as far as Civ goes at least), and third, and I have said this before. I am not entirely interested in packing as much as I can in for my modular civs. I like then to have around one or two leaders each (some civs will get three, but not many). And I really want their traits and personalities to differ a lot if possible.

I was actually thinking about LHs like Trudeau and Paul Kruger you didn't mention. Also, I remember you wanted to add Armenia as a civ. Anyway, we'll talk about it when it is modpack-time!