Bts "DUNE WARS" {Development Thread}

please don't add settlers and limit pop growth.

That would severely nerf philosophical and imperialistic.

I am best at doing specialist economy, so if you limit growth you are really going to ruin my enjoyment of the game. I like to starve pop down with specialists and such.
It's my game style.

I would leave specialists alone, i.e. don't change an engineer to whatever.
but change the names of the great people.

I don't like the idea of starting with a worker either-we want to make this game challenging.
If someone wants to start with a worker and setller etc.--they can always do advanced start on their own.
But it annoys me that there currently no scout unit at the start.

Everything with speed is mathematically correct and balance--if Adjica doesnt like Mahdi speed, he should play a faster speed or do advanced start-but don't change the whole balance of the game due to taste.
He has a point about having access to say Sand APC a little earlier. It took me a long time to get some apc just so I can transport my army to Harkonnen Island next to me. I could have used the hoover transport but it is really weak, slow, and doesnt carry that much units. Either , either buff hoover (hover) transport or make sand apc available earlier. Like I said, sand apc needs a movement buff, it's too slow. Give it +2 movement.

I also don't like the idea of limiting a unit to only cities that have that resource. The units are already expensive as it is.

It would be nice to have access to Thopters in the middle ages as opposed to the renaissance.

Perhaps also reduce the cost of early techs and add in some buildings.
Did you play the game when the balance was all messed up?
The techs were too cheap on the slowest speeds which led to your army being obsolete too fast.
The whole point of playing slower speeds is to extend the life of your army.
You played a game for 150 turns--on a slow speed that is nothing.
Either play a faster speed or go advanced start-don't ruin the whole balance of the game because
you were bored for 150 turns and quit after that. It's a slow speed-it's supposed to do that.
And the barbs should have kept you busy, unless you got lucky or turned barbs off.

Keldath, we need worms in this game. Since our friend Melinko has disappeared.--add worms as a barb unit as I said before.
Perhaps there should be two types of sandworm--one that roams -land-desert and another that roams sandsea.
Don't allow them to pillage as that would be annoying to fend off an invincable unit.
Make the worms like animals-they cant enter your borders. Make them slow-but really powerful -like 200 strength or some ridiculous number so you cant kill them. Cause collateral damage but cant kill--just like artillery.
 
Phonecian: I am playing the version that you can get by going through the OP. Also, I'm sure you mathamaticly balenced the mod to Perdition and back, but regardless of what speed you might play on, the start is really SLOW!!! I'm not sure you understand that. Every thing takes forever to build. Isn't Mahdi speed the equivelant of Normal? If its not normal, what is? Also, the whole reason I stuck with it is becasue I'm a Dune freak, anyone who has sort-of heard of Dune is going to be turned away by how slow it is. Even pre-BTS FFH wasn't this slow, and that was really SLOW. It was build warriors so as not to get screwed by the double strength Lizardmen and tech roughly 300 beakers with at most 2 unimproved cities.

I played until ~261:
-Is it intended for Soostone to be needed so much? Soostone is used for telepathic enhancement, not powering vehicles.
-Besides Colony Pod, we need an immediate limited unit that can explore deserts. IT would allow you to contact civs. Even though the Guild doesn't allow orbital sattalites, you would still be able to figure out where everyone else is.
-If you pop a warrior from a hut away from land, all he can do is sit there until you get a carryall
-Please rename Spice Plants. There are no Spice plants and it was confusing when I saw them, thinking I had lots of spice.
-Is it at all possible to build roads on desert?
-I checked WB on turn 261, no one had built another city, although the Harkonnen were teching well and the Corrinos and the BG were screwed on a small island with no nearby island.
-We really need a list of all desert-traversable ships so you can see which ones can without needing to trawl through the pedia. Also, what do you use to build spice harvesters if they occur on Desert and the worker cant enter desert?
 
Isn't Mahdi speed the equivelant of Normal?

....mahdi speed is the speed after marathon...hence it is slower than marathon...

I really hope you did not convince Keldath to change the game speed or cheapen the techs. Because if you did you hindered my hard work and the whole balance of the game.

NORMAL IS THE SPEED FOR NORMAL.

Here is a list of the speeds from fast to slow:

Fastest
Fast
Normal
Extended
Endurance
Grand
Marathon
Mahdi**
Eternity
Saga
------------------
I'm going to say this for the last time: THE SPEEDS ARE MATHEMATICALLY CORRECT. THE SPEED IS BALANCED. DO NOT CHANGE THE SPEEDS. DO NOT CHANGE COST OF TECHS.

Keldath, please do not raise barb percentage-the barbs are nuts as is. Please do not add settlers/workers etc.
That is what advanced start is for. Balance is more important than taste or preference.
 
Phonecian, I did not see normal as a speed option. I saw only Marathon to Saga. Lastly, Mathamatical Balence isnt perfect. Just because something is perfectly balenced mathamaticaly doesn't mean it will be in reality. Example: In core civ spearmen were designed to be just as effective as axemen. they weren't becasue the AI turtles so spearmen arent as effective at taking cities. Also, spearmen are a 'total hoser' while axemen are a 'partial hoser'. Becasue spearmen are so effective at what they do, you don't need as many of them to do the same job as many axemen. Firaxis wasn't sloppy in the beta testing completly, but when they saw how people played they had to make axemen weaker (vs Chariots). This may not be mathamaticly balenced, but is balenced player wise. There is a huge difference between math and reality.

I appreciate the work you did, but playability and fun trumps amount of work done.

Keldath, is it normal to see no barbs at all even in turn 261, or is no barbs a default option?
 
Dude, if you didn't see the difficulties you either weren't paying attention or you have an older version. Your complaining about a speed that is slower than marathon as being too slow.

Whatever-I think you just like to nit pick at anything whether it makes sense or not.

You make some valid points at times, but this isn't one of them.

I'm not gonna debate this matter any further with you -as you are obviously ignoring common sense.

About Barbs, you played a game at noble. Try playing a game at monarch like I did and see how nuts the barbs are.
On noble, barbs can either be a nuisance or not bother you at all. Even when I tried the game on Prince, the barbs seemed to be challenging.
Instead of recommending to ruin the balance of the game, turn raging barbs on.
I can't imagine how tough the barbs would be on monarch with raging barbs on-I would probably end up having to restart the game because I would be dead.
 
hey guys,
dont have much time to write,

1. i wont change the speeds for now, theres a diversity so that should cover it. perhaps ill add another for Ajidica and the proper properties.

2. dont worry, i wont do anything you guys wont approve.

3. dot worry about the scout pheo' i have a fix

4. about the worms - i have some ideas -just like you said - maybe making several types of it.

5. we might have a new member aboard :)

6.Ajidica, sosstoen is needed - vcause i chose a resource randomly that is a substiture for iron/copper in the vanilla - you have abother suggestion?

7. im not gonna change the great people properties - i just wanna give them dune names.


have a good day guys.
keep feedng me with bright ideas.

*****
edit:
hey guys,

i did somthing that will omprove start, i moved hovering to be a first tech and some other minor changes hat will be very good for the game start.


pheonician i now only see, that you changed the building names....but......not acording to the techs....for instance you got space ports tech, and space port can be built on sand worms...no logic there...i ll change them all along we the costs of each building according to its time.


******
edit:
ok, ive added all the unit buttons - theres 9 icon types - i gave each unit its unit combat catagory button, unless someone wnats to do a button for each unit...i like it this way - each units button is its combat catagory button, ive made 4 new ones by my own,
everything looks awesome - very dunish the oranges atlas :).

gonna do the entire button work of the mod now, buildings, promotions, and the rest.

if someone here can make me a terrain button atlas and a resource atlas it would be nice,
basically the resources can be some random icon, i really dont mind this.
it will save me time if someone does that.

after i finish with the art, ill reposition the buildings to its name sutible tech, than do the building models,
then all that will remain it balance and some testing and thats it for version 1.
 
I didn't realize that Mahdi was slower than marathon. On the screen where you choose the speed it was the middle one. Either normal got deleted or python is bombing. Phonician, if I am using an outdated version, than the front page link needs to be updated, becasue I'm not trawling through 24 pages trying to find the most recent patch.
Keldath: Perhaps just get rid of the soostone requirement? It is always annoying when many early units require a resource and you have to either go on a conquest with inferior units and hope your target has some, or WB some in.
Barbs: I know that there would be more on monarch, but seeing none at all even in the desert is a little strange.
 
Ajidica,

in the latest version - the num of turns is listed on each speed.

get rid of the soo req? you sure? wont that unbalance the mod a bit? many units will be availble?
even in vanilla - you need iron or copper to build axemans and swordsman right?
what do you think?

i forgot to tell you something Ajidica,

do not play with the dune maps........only continets or archipelago........thats probably why your having these issues - they are screwed maps im affraid...sorry for forgetting buddy.

thses is the last version i uplaoded :
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?njiezmdzgey

this is the sound addon - i think its working:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mv1zwhghz2m

the next version ill upload will be much more balanced and bettershaped with art,
it will take about a week or so,
its because i know you guys are testing, and i dont want you to waste your time testing on stuff that i know need to be fixed, so , ill do some work on the imprortant stuff that was not attended to till now.

guy...
plz help me with great peiople names..you dont want me to go and invent some silly stuff right?...
 
I'll try it out in a bit, I need to resolve a python/building issue in my mod first. Do you know where I can download the IDLE thing for python so I can make sure I didn't accidentlay break something?
 
What if soostone isn't needed to build the units (except for a few Bene Gesserit units, it can be obtained through a wonder) but if they have 'House Soldiers' resource in the city, the unit gets either a small bonus or removes the 'Arrakis Natives' promo which for all except fremen gives a negative? I recall that the Arrakeen levies weren't that great, so extrapolating I'm assuming that soldiers trained on a 'Civilized' planet is better trained and equiped than the Arrakeen trained soldiers.
 
The_J: Thanks. If I still have a python error after I run it through this, could you look it over to see where I messed up? If I still have the error I'll post in the other thread.
 
Ajidica,

mmm....

you have a good idea, but i cant d it all cause it req sdk work,

but, i can take the soo req, and replace it with one of the imported goods - can make a new one - for say...weapons...that produced by a certain building, that a city can build as a national wonder?

The_J,
hi,
how about the river lines that i sent you? have you tried it? the map it self wont work well i'm afraid.


******

hi guys,

heres an update:

ive finished adding all building+unit+great peaple buttons.
made some balance issues.

this is what i have left till we can call it version 1:

1. do building art models

2. do promotion buttons (from atlas)

3. change improvement buttons ( dont have any yet)

4. change terrain buttons (dont have yet)

5. change most civic names

6. change some bonus buttons (dont have any yet)

7. use the imported resources with building - i was thinking maybe make some of them to be preqeq for some unis)

8. balancing all values of units.

9. do some text issues of buildings

10. beaf up promotions and events.


thats it :)

if someone can help with any of those, plz do, i need an atlas of the missing buttons i listed above.



********
HEY GUYS,

i leant how to edit units, and i now can create some new ones - its so cool and fun,
ill create some really cool rovers and rollers :)
 
Hey,

5. we might have a new member aboard

Yes, I want to help. :)
Keldath asked me what I want to do first and I like to begin with doing xml work for building art models. Where I can get the buildings?

Some issues I noticed in current version:

- sound addon link in first post is broken
- sound addon archive in post 488 is corrupt (crc error)
- at least on my computer the graphics for main menu and leaderheads are messed up (see attachment)
- there are only 4 game speeds, starting with marathon (1200) and slower :)
 
hey koma,

- ill upload a new link in the next hours.

-the grphics corruption is at you end my friend - it seems that your grphic card needs a driver update - and then it will be fixed (hopefully).

- 4 speeds? then something must be wrong with the installation .

wait for my new link.

in the new version - all you need to do basically is to work with the buildingartinfo.xml + buildinginfo.xml.

the names of the buildings are mixed - say you have a harvester factory - and its art line is - art_def_buildingclass_market.

that needs a fix aswell - but not that important.

i found some nice buildings - fanatasy packs in the graphic forum of dwary, human and another one, also, you can dl models from the database, or use models from planetfall or mars mod.

ive began work on that acctually, but i decided to postpone it cause ihave to do somthing else with the buildings.

:)


****
try this link to the sounds:
http://uploading.com/files/Y3947SXZ/sound addon.exe.html

heres a link for version 0/35:
http://uploading.com/files/DOCQDR61/dune woc lite0.35.exe.html
 
The_J: Thanks. If I still have a python error after I run it through this, could you look it over to see where I messed up? If I still have the error I'll post in the other thread.

Fixed ;).

The_J,
hi,
how about the river lines that i sent you? have you tried it? the map it self wont work well i'm afraid.

Like already said in my thread: Tested it today, but i have to think of some other things.

i leant how to edit units, and i now can create some new ones - its so cool and fun,
ill create some really cool rovers and rollers :)

:cool: let's see, what you create.

Some issues I noticed in current version:

- sound addon link in first post is broken
- sound addon archive in post 488 is corrupt (crc error)
- at least on my computer the graphics for main menu and leaderheads are messed up (see attachment)

:hmm: i tried an older version (because i had some problems with uploading.com [fixed now]), and had the same problems.

- there are only 4 game speeds, starting with marathon (1200) and slower :)

I thought, that only 4 gamespeeds can be displayed, but i'm not sure atm.
 
The_J,


hummm...i see now -
you guys started a game through play now......

you shouldnt do that...only through custom game .....


as for the unit - ill upload a pic soon,

the_j,
do you happen to know how can i add a weapon effect to a unit??


hey guys check out my unit work :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8086536#post8086536
 
yo dudes,

here is my fixed Dune Mapscript. as a copy of Archipelago, you can choose Archipelago, tiny islands and snaky continents. All Ocean fields are replaced by desert :)

Have fun ^^

@keldath: great work over there !
 

Attachments

Vadus,
hi,


thanks for the work buddy,

but..

i think it doesnt work...it wont place desert instead of water, just creates a normal map - but only based on grass, no plains or tundra or snow...


*****
UPDATE:
i have optimized all the buildings,
they are all at the techs they are suppose to be placed, some costs might be hig/low, but thats the balance stage.

i need to add a few more buildings,

if koma, our new member , will do the building models, it will greatly save me some time, and then i can head to changing the civics.

i having fun with creating units, its so much fun, one hing is that i dont jnow how to add a weapon fire to the units, but i will learn, then, our mod will have some uniqe unit models :))
 
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