BTS FALLACY - Charlemagne has NEVER ruled the Holy Roman Empire !

[Spearthrower]

You are totally right cbrxkhan - of course they didnt call themselves the Celts! I dont think that's an issue..... even with modern day nations and ethnic groups, the adjective we use in English (or any other language) is not the name they call themselves.

Nor does calling them all "Celts" imply any ethnic unity.... culture does not require people to have the same genes to share it! This is the crux of this issue and in fact of this thread - anachronous thought! It is really hard to fully imagine what Europe would have been like with no political/ethnic borders, but tiny chiefdoms littered across from atlantic to the middle east. Just as it is hard for people who have been educated to believe that Charlemagne was French to accept that this is an anachronistic and totally untenable concept (especially given that the Franks originated in modern day Germany) that speaks more of nationalistic education systems than of historical reality. HRE is a political entity, not an ethnic one.

What's in a name? A rose by any other name may welll smell as sweet.... but there'll always be people who argue that it doesn't because it's not a "rose".

 

[Saim]

The Ancient Kingdom of Macedon was Greek, Not slavic like it is now. I think.

Correct me if i'm wrong. Always up for a history lesson.

It was neither. It became assimilated into the Greek ethnicity though.

 

[TheLastOne36]

then what was it before that happened?

*GAH ALIENS!!!!! *

 

[cybrxkhan]

VANILLA FALLACY - QIN SHI HUANG NEVER RULED CHINA!!! HE RULED THE QIN DYNAYSTY!!!!

1/2

we're supposed to be arguing about Charly or HRE or something here, aren't we...

 

[Draknith]

From what I thought, Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emporer. Pope Leo III in 800 AD crowned Charlemagne Emporer after his help on Christmas Day 799 AD. Legitimizing his rule over the former Roman Empire.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

From what I thought, Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emporer. Pope Leo III in 800 AD crowned Charlemagne Emporer after his help on Christmas Day 799 AD. Legitimizing his rule over the former Roman Empire.

Charlemagne was not known as the HRE rather crowned an emperor of the frankish kingdom by the pope, saying Charlemagne was a HRE is saying the Roman empire is Italy.

 

[uppi]

Charlemagne was not known as the HRE rather crowned an emperor of the frankish kingdom by the pope, saying Charlemagne was a HRE is saying the Roman empire is Italy.

Charlemagne was not crowned "emperor of the frankish kingdom" or somthing like that, he was crowned "Imperator Romanorum" or Roman Emperor like all later Holy Roman Emperors

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Charlemagne was not crowned "emperor of the frankish kingdom" or somthing like that, he was crowned "Imperator Romanorum" or Roman Emperor like all later Holy Roman Emperors

Regardless of whether he was or not, the kingdom he ruled was not known as the HRE, secondly if he really was a roman emperor why didn't he rule from Rome?

 

[cybrxkhan]

well, he was designated the ruler of the "Western Empire", a sucessor, more rather, but he was just some Germanic barbarian, at least to the only real "Romans" left, the Byzantiots.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Besides the Western Roman Empire was France Italy and Spain. Not really germany is it?

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

well, he was designated the ruler of the "Western Empire", a sucessor, more rather, but he was just some Germanic barbarian, at least to the only real "Romans" left, the Byzantiots.

In my view I wouldn't consider him a HRE nor successor unless a roman emperor passed it on to him.

 

[cybrxkhan]

man, I just love all of these threads the HRE inspires. you're amazing, Firaxis. maybe you'll even interest newspapers and news magazines...

TIME front cover (with picture of Charlemagne behind):

Contreversy: Is Computer Game-Maker Trying to Ruin the Gaming Business?

 

[cybrxkhan]

In my view I wouldn't consider him a HRE nor successor unless a roman emperor passed it on to him.

well, i just stated a fact, but i do agree though he was recognized by the pope, I don't recognize him as a real sucessor.

 

[TheLastOne36]

well they certainly ruined a Video Game Community.

Also what's the reaction to HRE in other Civ cites?

Crosspost by the pho guy

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

well they certainly ruined a Video Game Community.

Also what's the reaction to HRE in other Civ cites?

Crosspost by the pho guy

Unless the other gaming sites are retards and idiots I would say other sites have at least a few protestors.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Seeing as the biggest community for civ is burning up in hell, i can't imagine how other sites are doing... Lack of moderators, etc...

 

[uppi]

Regardless of whether he was or not, the kingdom he ruled was not known as the HRE, secondly if he really was a roman emperor why didn't he rule from Rome?

Why does a roman emperor have to rule from Rome? There were a few real Roman Emperors, who did not rule from Rome. Rome was in Charlemagne's territory, however. This was not true for most of his successors.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Why does a roman emperor have to rule from Rome? There were a few real Roman Emperors, who did not rule from Rome. Rome was in Charlemagne's territory, however. This was not true for most of his successors.

As long as they are roman they don't have to rule from Rome...

 

[cybrxkhan]

well, the last Western Roman capital was Ravenna, actually, although the symbolic center was still Rome...

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I saw only one anti-HRE thread on Apolyton. I guess they're more civilized.