[BtS] Merged Mod

[Ninja2]

For everyones' information, I am watching closely the discussions in the Wolfshanze thread and the DCM thread. I will make a larger update, once Dale has ironed out his bugs, and Wolf has made a new update, which hopefully will adjust the presence of airunits, interception levels and add some new models.

I am also seriously considering adding an anti-tank gun unit, which will afford civs without access to the ressources for tanks some defense. I will also still consider adding a flak unit, again to allow the poorer civs a defending chance. These will basically be modelled on the machine gun, in that they can only defend, and will suffer penalties against units which they were not meant to fight. I haven't figured out what's best - make a generally weak unit, with large bonuses to fight their designated opposing unit, or a stronger unit with penalties against other units. However, rest assured that on both accounts, these units will not be uber-powerful, even against their natural adversaries. Graphically, the ones from Road to War will make do.

I have also already made a working mod to work with Wolf's 2.64. I have made some effort to balance the Wolf's airunits vis-a-vis Dale's airbombing missions, so that the more advanced aircraft, the more missions become available. No aircraft, however, are allowed all mission types. Otherwise, the Jet fighter would simply become THE best unit, and I want people to still need bombers. Furthermore, the light bomber and the jet fighter are now also lethal.

 

[Agent327]

, Ninja2! (I'll keep an eye on you.)

 

[arstal]

Given history, I'd combine the flak/anti-tank gun into one unit perhaps?

Keeping an eye on this mod.

 

[von Krysiak]

Combining AA and anti tank would make the unit a bit too strong as a multipurpose unit so I would vote against it - unless you can put your hands on model of German 88's then you could make average power unit with small bonus against tanks and AA. Best option would be to make low power AA machine gun with big bonus against planes (but low power so it wont deal too muvch dmg against other units) and then some kind of small caliber anti tank gun something along the lines of pak 38 - again low/average power with big bonus against tanks.
Both units should be slightly lower power than infantry to ensure that nations wont spam these units as a general all purpose defense unit...

 

[Ninja2]

The legendary 88 of Germany is NOT how I intend to model this. That unit would almost qualify as a Unique Unit in its own right!

I'm thinking more along the lines of having this AA unit able to inflict damage to some degree, but not outright kill airunits. I don't think there's much historical basis for ground based AA to completely halt a bombing raid, so I'm inclined to go with damage.

I haven't yet completely made up my mind on the AT. I'll have to look closely at the tech tree to see when it would be appropriate, if at all.

 

[von Krysiak]

The legendary 88 of Germany is NOT how I intend to model this. That unit would almost qualify as a Unique Unit in its own right!

I'm thinking more along the lines of having this AA unit able to inflict damage to some degree, but not outright kill airunits. I don't think there's much historical basis for ground based AA to completely halt a bombing raid, so I'm inclined to go with damage.

I haven't yet completely made up my mind on the AT. I'll have to look closely at the tech tree to see when it would be appropriate, if at all.

I totally agree - both units are meant as "poor versions" so they shouldn't be able to kill all their opponents. Now taking of anti tank unit I know we are limited by the models available (unless you have a modeler who could help us out) but we can go with either anti tank gun OR anti tank rifle which would be cool as well and maybe easier to model?

 

[Ninja2]

On the back of the debate in Wolf's thread, I went ahead and implemented the AT and the AA units. They are basically copies of the ones found in The Road to War official mod. Currently, they are both placed to be available with Artillery + Industrialism. I have not yet balanced them, so I don't know if they are "just right" yet when used in combat. The AA-Gun and AT-Gun upgrade to SAM Infantry and AT Infantry, respectively, just like Machineguns can also upgrade.

I also updated the rest of the mod to be in sync with Wolf's 2.65 version, however, I decided to remove the oil requirement for Airships again.

Now, the question is... does anyone want to play around with this yet to test the two new guns? What I need more than anything is some feed back on them to see if they are overpowered. I'll do some testing myself, but you know, the more the merrier... If anyone wants it, I can upload it tonight. You'll then need to upgrade to Wolf's 2.65 to get the .fpk file.

Last, I'm also still waiting on Dale's testing of his new dll. I need his source code to compile a new dll for my mod.

 

[von Krysiak]

Well if you upload the file I can do some testing over the weeknd, no time to play right now unfortunately

Anyways thanks for impleenting that - I think if balanced right it will add a lot to modern times warfare

 

[Ninja2]

Release!

0.40 has now been released. What's new:

* Compatible with Wolf's 2.65. Requires the Wolfshanze.fpk-file from that mod.
* Airships do not require Oil (like the vanilla game).
* The airmissions from DCM become available as airunits become more advanced.
* Two new units: Anti-Aircraft Gun and Anti-Tank Gun, borrowed from the Road to War mod. They are available with Artillery and Industrialism, and do not require any resources to build. Both units are defensive, but should not be much trouble for infantry or artillery to take out. They are intended to bite back against their natural adversaries, though! These units still need balancing, so please provide feedback! If they are too tough, I want to scale them back.

 

[Xenomorph]

I don't suppose you could include the source files for the SDK changes, could you? I'd like to include some other SDK mods (Pirates, Water Animals, J's Improved Cultural Borders, etc) to the mod.

 

[Ninja2]

I might have time to make a separate downoad of the source tonight, so it's coming. I also have Pirates on the slate down the road...

 

[Wolfshanze]

Just curious... what powers the Zeppelins' engines? Wheat... Corn... Coal?

 

[Ninja2]

You should really ask Firaxis that question...

Like I've tried to state a few times - some amount of resources must be assumed to exist in each civ, regardless of their access to that resource on any given turn. Think stockpiles, black market trading, I don't care how you abstract it. It's exactly the same as iron. Even if you cut off a civ's source of iron, damaged swordsmen are still able to regain their strength. Where DO they get the iron to replace the weapons?

It's the same as the helium they put in the zeppelins... just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there!

 

[Ninja2]

@ Xenomorph: Did you ever update Gedomon's Air Force Module?

EDIT: Here is the source for Merged Mod.

 

[arstal]

Problems with the AA unit

- I think it ties in to tanks, which isn't a great idea
- 40% interception rate is way too high

 

[Wolfshanze]

Personally, if I ever did a FLAK unit, I would give it 10%... 1 in 10 bombers being intercepted by ground fire is about what you're going to get (and that's generous). Turning back nearly half of all bomber attacks completely is simply ridiculous.

It's the "turning back" thing I don't like about AA interceptions... damaging is one thing, the stopped attack is too much, and 40% is incredibly high for FLAK.

I believe the actual % of USAAF planes hit during bombing runs over Germany by FLAK were probably more like 1 in 20.

 

[Agent327]

Personally, if I ever did a FLAK unit, I would give it 10%... 1 in 10 bombers being intercepted by ground fire is about what you're going to get (and that's generous). Turning back nearly half of all bomber attacks completely is simply ridiculous.

It's the "turning back" thing I don't like about AA interceptions... damaging is one thing, the stopped attack is too much, and 40% is incredibly high for FLAK.

I believe the actual % of USAAF planes hit during bombing runs over Germany by FLAK were probably more like 1 in 20.

Is that just a wild guess? The RAF turned to night bombing in WW II because of the high kill rate on their bombing runs. I reckon what did Nazi-Germany in was the sheer amount of bombers sent in on missions. (I'd agree that fighters 'd be more effective, but they lost air superiority around 1941-'42, taking in account all fronts.)

 

[Xenomorph]

@ Xenomorph: Did you ever update Gedomon's Air Force Module?

Yea, I managed to get that working with my mod. Thankfully, there wasn't a whole lot of SDK code to figure out and he had his changes nicely labeled, so it only took a couple of compile attempts.

 

[Ninja2]

Would you know how to change it so that bombers don't abort their missions if attacked by flak? Like the mod allows air missions to continue, if the interceptor is shot down?

 

[Ninja2]

Problems with the AA unit

- I think it ties in to tanks, which isn't a great idea

What? I don't understand...