[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[Tlalynet]

50% is the current in game withdraw chance for a sub, it gets up to 80 with flanking. I usually keep a stack as raiders, though making them transport targeting monsters would be great and terrible. At very least it would require a complex mechanic with destroyers. I'm reasonably happy with how they are now, but they do tend to die a little too much for me to use them with confidence. A possible 100% withdraw chance (With flanking II) would make them very usefull, but still not overpowered cause they would be terrible on defence compared to Destroyers.

As it sits you can get 110% withdraw if you put a GG on a sub, there is no use for the extra 10% though.

For realalism I dont know, it seems like there are a lot of capable advisors for that here, its part of what makes this thread so interesting. It also makes Wolfs Civilopedia interesting too.

 

[Chuggi]

I don't like the guys with the american shields...

 

[Wolfshanze]

Well, I'll do something with subs in the next update... probably a combo of increased evasion and a transport combat bonus.

 

[von Krysiak]

I like the idea of Subs having ability to pick transport ships out of the stack - just like Khmer ballista elephants do with cavalry! It would be a big bonus enough to start building them!
Increasing their retreat chance would add a lot as well so it is a not a bad idea.

 

[Wolfshanze]

The Wolfshanze Mod has all new units tested individually, and since I usually play as Germany, they're double-checked in my mod!

As for any changes, I'm not sure what version the Merged Mod is using as a base, but the v2.6 Wolfshanze Mod only introduced one German model (the Pre-Dreadnought SMS Brandenburg), and since v2.6 the only addition/change to Germany came with v2.63... the Knight and Heavy Foot Soldier (Maul) were changed in XML/DDS... mostly because the old German units were switched for use by Austria.

 

[arstal]

I like the idea of Subs having ability to pick transport ships out of the stack - just like Khmer ballista elephants do with cavalry! It would be a big bonus enough to start building them!
Increasing their retreat chance would add a lot as well so it is a not a bad idea.

That would be overpowered unless Destroyers could intercept subs.

 

[von Krysiak]

That would be overpowered unless Destroyers could intercept subs.

Well thats what I meant of course that Destroyers could intercept subs.
Also a little cool feature would be if you could base your Airships off your ships (even if that means only from the carriers or so) to provide additional anti sub detection. Finally airships would do what they were meant to do in the first place

 

[Wolfshanze]

It would actually be easy to allow airships to be based off ships... it would only take a minor XML tweak... having said that, I don't have any plans of doing so in the future, but it could be done on any users end who wanted to do so.

Any change I make to subs would most likely be minor and straight-forward... nothing earth shattering or major-league changes. I'm mostly thinking a bump-up of evasion and maybe an anti-transport bonus.

 

[Ninja2]

How about a penalty to capital ships when fighting subs?

 

[von Krysiak]

Yeah that would be another good option to give a penalty to everything except for destroyers and maybe heavy cruisers, and destroyer escorts?

Well no matter which option you go for I bet new changes will be well received

 

[Wolfshanze]

How about a penalty to capital ships when fighting subs?

Sub combat is something I probably need to research more... can a capital ship engage a sub? I know a sub can fire on anything it likes, but what can attack a sub? I never seem to see the AI with subs, so I have little experience in fighting subs, only in using them myself.

Like I said... I have to put more thought into sub use... I don't really want to stray too much from default Civ4, but a tweak here or there is certainly not out of line for me.

I also have no idea when I'd do this... I'm still waiting on certain models too which are out of my control.

 

[arstal]

You said in the other post, that you were planning to add Poland. Here's the question- if you can't have 35 Civs, who would you get rid of?

Candidates to me:
Sumeria or Babylon (wasn't Babylon just the evolution of Sumeria)

 

[Wodan]

Sub combat is something I probably need to research more... can a capital ship engage a sub? I know a sub can fire on anything it likes, but what can attack a sub?

In the game: Anything. You just have to have a destroyer (or something) nearby to be able to see the sub to attack it. That's how it currently works, anyway. Nobody said it makes much sense. See above about the "lack of antisub weapons" ideas.

In real life: There's no reason a capital ship couldn't have a ton of antisub weapons, but they usually don't because they're built to fry bigger fish. Xeno's post (below) is accurate, IMO.

Wodan

 

[Xenomorph]

That would be overpowered unless Destroyers could intercept subs.

Check my post on the subject.

Sub combat is something I probably need to research more... can a capital ship engage a sub? I know a sub can fire on anything it likes, but what can attack a sub? I never seem to see the AI with subs, so I have little experience in fighting subs, only in using them myself.

Battleships tend to have poor combat ability against subs because they generally lack the weapons (torpedoes, depth charges) and maneuverability to deal with subs. This is why they (almost) always escorted by corvettes and destroyers, who's job is to keep and ear out for subs. ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) helicopters are also heavily used, and are one of the best weapons against submarines. Working in pairs and using both sonar buoys and MAD equipment make them nasty and would make any sub commander think twice about approaching a large convoy protected by several of them.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Anything. You just have to have a destroyer (or something) nearby to be able to see the sub to attack it.

That's how it currently works, anyway. Nobody said it makes much sense. See above about the "lack of antisub weapons" ideas.

Wodan

If anything can attack a sub, it might make some sense to give subs a "+50% Defense against all waterborn vessels"... then give destroyer types a +50% attack vs subs" or something like that. saves the trouble of doing a "-50% attack vs sub" for 20 vessels in the game!

Mind you, the numbers I'm tossing about (50% or whatever) are just placeholders... I'm not sure of actual percentages I would use yet... but it's a thought.

 

[Tlalynet]

The AI built a tonne of subs in my last marathon game. They used them pretty well, I didnt know where my ships where diapearing too untill my own sub stack got close (I didnt have a destroyer there)

 

[Kilroywashere]

THANK YOU!!! I love your mod!
I still think some non-transport ships should have the ability to carry a single land unit but THIS MOD IS AMAZING!! it has everything that the original game lacked. I also like that you've changed some of the annoying tech gaps like airships being built when your still using frigates and musketmen, and Anti tanks being built before tanks.

 

[Kilroywashere]

The Airships USS Akron and USS Makron were both based off of cruisers and destroyers, and since a airship doesn't really have to land it would make sense to be able to carry them on any number of ships. or you could make it a promotion for a ship to be able to carry one, though this might be harder.

 

[GeneralMatt]

On the Sub thing, how about using the mechanic that the Cavalry uses when attacking stacks in addition to the Withdrawal. If a Sub survives and attack (Wins or withdraws) it damages the transports in the stack..

 

[Tlalynet]

General Matt's suggestion is very good, they wont autokill a transport, but a few of them will kill your transports making them very very dangerous.