[BtS MOD] Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0

[Pendragon65]

Yes AAA did cause Casulties but most of RAF Bomber Command & US 8th Airforce loses (moreso The Mighty 8th) were caused by German fighters. Long range Mustangs and lack of fuel grounded the luftwaffe & AAA was not able to protect the German citys or fuel producing plants. Air Supremacy guaranteed D-Day,Falaise,Ardenne & Rhine crossing No German Luftwaffe no chance.Very Nasty fighting though for everybody.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Crap, I forgot something. Dresden would have been a better example because the almost the entire city was leveled in a small number of raids.

I don't like to use Dresden as an example because Dresden wasn't really defended at all... in-fact, most of the AAA that was supposed to guard Dresden had been moved to Berlin.

Berlin is a PERFECT example for my point, because it was the most heavily protected city with AAA... and still the city was completely leveled.

Guess Hitler should have put more fighters in the air... oh... but the Allies destroyed his oil supply, so he couldn't... just like in Civ4 games!

 

[arstal]

I did check the merged mods- I think those units are a bad idea now.
Way too powerful for my taste. The anti-tank gun isn't that bad though.

That said, airpower is more powerful in that game due to the air bombing missions (That's one thing I would add to your mod from the Merged Mod- with the focus on airpower surprised you haven't thought about adding it yet)

 

[Wolfshanze]

I did check the merged mods- I think those units are a bad idea now.
Way too powerful for my taste.

Yeah well, we all know where I stand on that.

That said, airpower is more powerful in that game due to the air bombing missions (That's one thing I would add to your mod from the Merged Mod- with the focus on airpower surprised you haven't thought about adding it yet)

It's not that I haven't thought of it... I do like THAT aspect of Dale's Mod (don't like what he did with ground units though)... however, I believe it's a DLL change that is required, which I can't do... and if I do a simple swap-out, if I'm not mistaken, I'd lose the 40-civ capability (along with the prefered nuclear fallout options) which Dale's DLL doesn't support. I like playing on big 40-civ maps!

 

[Xenomorph]

If I could make AAA that damages but doesn't turn back bombers, I'd do it... but as it is in Civ4 game mechanics, an intercept by AAA would turn back the attack... I don't like that.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to contact one of the resident python coders to see if they could do that for you.

It's not that I haven't thought of it... I do like THAT aspect of Dale's Mod (don't like what he did with ground units though)... however, I believe it's a DLL change that is required, which I can't do... and if I do a simple swap-out, if I'm not mistaken, I'd lose the 40-civ capability (along with the prefered nuclear fallout options) which Dale's DLL doesn't support. I like playing on big 40-civ maps!

Tell me what ones you want incorporated, and I can see if I can put them in. I've already combined your mod, Diversica, Dale's Combat Mod, Pirates! Mod, Water Animals Mod, JKP's events, several new civs, and quite a few of GIR's python Wonders.

 

[Tlalynet]

That depends on the mapscript, and, what, there are several hundred mapscripts out there by now.

Well said. I was refering to the default mapscripts, but I havent played all the user map scripts or even all the ones that come in the custom game options. A low oil mapscript would have a very scary late game, it might be interseting to look for one.

Sorry Wolf, I havent been reading the civilopedia since I first downloaded the mod (pre air superiority) I'll check it more often now.

 

[Ninja2]

I did check the merged mods- I think those units are a bad idea now.
Way too powerful for my taste. The anti-tank gun isn't that bad though.

That said, airpower is more powerful in that game due to the air bombing missions (That's one thing I would add to your mod from the Merged Mod- with the focus on airpower surprised you haven't thought about adding it yet)

Any ideas on how the AA could be modified? And I hope you don't mind if we debated that in the Merged Mod thread instead of here? I'm sure Wolf and the other readers of this thread would appreciate that as well.

 

[Ninja2]

Wolf, did you ever check out this airforce mod? I think there might be something to inspire you in it.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Xenomorph/all... I'll be out most of today, but I might take you up on the merging thing... I like some aspects of Dale's (mostly the Air Bombing), but not all (mostly the ground options... blech!).

I'll PM you when I have more time.

 

[Kilroywashere]

One thing i've noticed, since you've allowed cavalry to upgrade to tanks, the Stable should become obsolete earlier; right now you can build all sorts of tanks but no cavalry and the Stable can still be built. It obsoletes at advanced flight, which is when Gunships pop up, but it should obsolete at combustion or industrialism, as this is when tanks show up.

 

[Kilroywashere]

I don't like to use Dresden as an example because Dresden wasn't really defended at all... in-fact, most of the AAA that was supposed to guard Dresden had been moved to Berlin.

Berlin is a PERFECT example for my point, because it was the most heavily protected city with AAA... and still the city was completely leveled.

Guess Hitler should have put more fighters in the air... oh... but the Allies destroyed his oil supply, so he couldn't... just like in Civ4 games!

Alright fine. Besides it's a moot point to argue anyway, I probably shouldn't of even corrected myself because then everyone gets hung up on a technicality.

The point I was trying to make with the post was about Submarines. They show up at the wrong time and you can't use them in an historically accurate way! They were designed to be commerce raiders and were in use during WW1. Right now all they do is a bonus versus transports, can only be seen by destroyers and show up with WW2 ships, when they should be able to attack anyone who is stupid enough to send an unescorted vessel out in the ocean and be able to be built when dreadnoughts show up.

 

[arstal]

It sounds like in the Merged Mod thread, Dale has made it in RtW that the flak guns don't stop air missions.

If I was to make a suggestion

Flak guns- 10% interception chance (A little higher then history, but a tweak for playability)
Do not stop air missions unless they destroy the aircraft
Have a chance of being destroyed themselves when they intercept.
Fairly cheap
Get a bonus vs tanks (El Alamein 88s)

 

[Milly]

]To represent the costly-ness(?) of Synthesizing Oil, how about making the (theoretical) refinery building 1) cost ALOT to build and 2) cause -100% gold in the city its built in until an alternate source of oil is aquired. Also, I am *not* implying your gonna make a refinery building, but I personally think that it might solve this problem.

There's already something like that... it's called Standard Oil. ^^;

 

[Wolfshanze]

The point I was trying to make with the post was about Submarines. They show up at the wrong time and you can't use them in an historically accurate way! They were designed to be commerce raiders and were in use during WW1. Right now all they do is a bonus versus transports, can only be seen by destroyers and show up with WW2 ships, when they should be able to attack anyone who is stupid enough to send an unescorted vessel out in the ocean and be able to be built when dreadnoughts show up.

Wow... you just COMPLETELY IGNORED MY ANSWER which showed the error of your ways about submarines... I refuse to discuss this anymore, as I completely answered your question in post #620 and you are still spouting errors and wrong assumptions about when submarines are available in my mod. Please either read my responses, or actually look when something is available in-game before making completely false assumptions and telling me subs are only available at a certain time when they are in-fact clearly available MUCH EARLIER then you state.

 

[Pendragon65]

Hi Wolfie Ref post 615 New Cool Thing, Its not Chuck Norris

 

[Wolfshanze]

Hi Wolfie Ref post 615 New Cool Thing, Its not Chuck Norris

Nope... in referance to post 615... it's definately not Chuck Norris.

 

[Wodan]

WWI units in the Wolfshanze Mod are unlocked with Assembly Line+Artillery for the most part.... WWII Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers require Electricity+Combustion+Assembly Line+Artillery... meaning they come after most WWI units unlock... Subs need only Electricity+Combustion... they do NOT need Assembly Line or Artillery, so can in-fact be built BEFORE WWI units can (I know this because in my current game, I have Electricity and Assembly Line, but no Artillery... so I can build
Pre-Dreadnoughts and Subs, but not Dreadnoughts or Heavy Cruisers.

Trust me... I've got this all figured out guys!

Sorry for asking stupid questions but I don't have the game loaded (actually I've got something else running for work so I can't load the game right now...).

So, WWI units: AL+Artillery
Subs: Electricity + Combustion

So, to get WWI units AND subs, you need AL+Artillery+Electricity+Combustion, right?

Which would = WWII units.

Also, don't subs need oil? So you de facto need Combustion as well?

Wodan

 

[Wolfshanze]

Wodan... not sure what you're fishing for, but I'll play along...

So, WWI units: Assembly Line (AL)+Artillery
Subs: Electricity + Combustion

Yes... note you can very easily build subs before ever getting any WWI units, or conversely, you could build WWI units without ever getting subs... but yes, it's fairly flexible... when I refer to WWI-units, I generally refer to "Infantry, Dreadnoughts and WWI Tanks"... WWI planes have slightly differant requirements, but usually come-along the same time-frame (unless you're very focused on a particular research path).

So, to get WWI units AND subs, you need AL+Artillery+Electricity+Combustion, right?

Yep.

Which would = WWII units.

Nope... not at all... most WWII units require Artillery+Radio+Industrialism (WWII units being Marines, Battleships & WWII tanks)

Also, don't subs need oil? So you de facto need Combustion as well?

Yeah, Combustion is a pre-req for a ton of units, from Pre-Dreadnoughts and subs up to and including both WWI and WWII units... remember that Combustion unlocks oil production.

When I say "WWI units need this or that", I'm generally refering to what needs they have beyond subs... they DO require Combustion, but I thought that was a given, considering Kilroy's complaint that Subs were WWII units only, and not available at, during or before WWI units, which they in-fact, are.

Trust me folks... I spent a TON of time going over the tech requirements for during and between WWI and WWII.

Most WWI and WWII units actually require three or more techs... Early Tanks and Dreadnoughts for instance, require Combustion, Assembly Line and Artillery... WWI planes require Flight (which itself requires Physics + Combustion)... Subs require only Combustion + Electricity... which could come before, after, or at the same time as WWI units. It all depends on what you research first.

Most WWII units require Artillery, Combustion, Radio and Industrialism... the latter two both coming down the tech tree from any WWI requirement... WWII aircraft require Air Superiority (after Flight) plus Radio.

I only have two units that I consider "between war" units, and that's Heavy Cruisers and Destroyers... but it is possible to get them at the same time as WWI unit if you put-off Assembly Line till last.... but WWII Battleships, Tanks, Aircraft and Marines all require the WWI techs that you simply MUST have before progressing to WWII... there's simply no-way of getting WWII tanks, battleships, marines or aircraft without first having access to WWI tanks dreadnoughts, infantry or aircraft first.

Guys... I went over this with a fine tooth comb... everyone who questions the tech tree isn't even looking at it.

 

[Wodan]

Wodan... not sure what you're fishing for, but I'll play along...

Not fishing for anything, really. You just referred to your earlier post and I was curious but then it didn't make sense / I had questions.

Yes... note you can very easily build subs before ever getting any WWI units, or conversely, you could build WWI units without ever getting subs... but yes, it's fairly flexible... when I refer to WWI-units, I generally refer to "Infantry, Dreadnoughts and WWI Tanks"... WWI planes have slightly differant requirements, but usually come-along the same time-frame (unless you're very focused on a particular research path).

Understood. The land and air units, though, aren't really relevant to the sub question.

Nope... not at all... most WWII units require Artillery+Radio+Industrialism (WWII units being Marines, Battleships & WWII tanks)

Oh, okay. Well that's what confused me, then. You said, "WWII Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers require Electricity+Combustion+Assembly Line+Artillery"

But to build subs and WWI-era ships you need those exact same techs. So those techs would cause most of those WWI-era ships to be obsoleted by either Destroyers or Heavy Cruisers. That's where the disjoint happens... where I got confused.

I guess the question boils down to "what's the tech path that allows you to build subs and WWI-era ships before you get Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers?"

Trust me folks... I spent a TON of time going over the tech requirements for during and between WWI and WWII.

Oh I wasn't complaining. But thanks for the explanation.

Wodan

 

[Wolfshanze]

I guess the question boils down to "what's the tech path that allows you to build subs and WWI-era ships before you get Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers?"

Now i'm away from home, so I can't double-check... you can DEFINATELY build subs before any WWI ships... that I know... I'd have to double-check exactly what requirements are for Destroyers and Cruisers, because they are differant then the bulk of WWII units... which includes tanks, marines and battleships.

I tried to place modern Destroyers and Heavy Cruisers between the war... because... well, because that's when they started showing up.

I can bump the Destroyer/Cruiser back to Radio if that's not already a requirement, because most WWII units require radio... as I'm away from home, I don't want to make assumptions (I always double-check before I say something about tech requirements).

I will double check that though... now that it's said that way, I understand the question being asked... to me, I consider the "WWI" or "WWII" units lumped-in with the big ships... Dreadnoughts for WWI and Battleships for WWII... destroyers and heavy cruisers I tried to squeeze between the wars for historical reasons.