BTS Roleplaying Challenge: Sitting Bull

[KMadCandy]

"We are currently researching Philosophy. I am very interested in Angkor Wat (sp), but not terribly interested in founding another religion; I may wait to get finish it until someone else does."

i am with you there. particularly with the Buddhist Bloc we think is out there, if somebody else, anybody else but best one of them that didn't found buddhism, founds Taoism, that could stir up some discontent. i often (try to) hold off on discovering a tech that'll found a religion until somebody else gets the holy city exactly for that reason.

the wonders screen does hold some good news i wasn't counting on ... buddhism and judaism were founded by different civs. the shrines are both built, and they're in two different cities founded in 4000 BC, yay! isabella so often gets both that i half-figured even the first one to monotheism was in the BBloc.

"I imagine we'll also colonize the new continent once the marketplaces are finished in our gold cities, Pueblo and Comanche."
"2. What to do with Joao? At this point, he's been peaceful and reasonable. I am tempted to convert him to the Way and lock him in as a long-term friend. Or I could start a brief war with him (if justified in RP) with the goal of making him our vassal."

i grouped those two together because of who Joao is. i love to play as him, and i kind of make a face when i meet him. he's super-colonizer. expansive/imperialistic, fast workers, fast settlers, and his carrack UU can hold 2 units, and any type of land unit, including settlers/workers/military, and can go thru rival territory. bottom line, even if you have closed borders due to some disagreement, if he wants to settle the coast on your lands, once he has optics he can do it even without declaring war. you want to be able to afford cities before you build a ton of them of course, just something to keep in mind.

edit: constantinople is also a "gold city" too. it'll be earning gold from that false-spirit shrine even when your slider is at 0%, and i'm tempted enough by filthy lucre that i'd build a market there too *giggle*.

"I am hopeful that one of the Buddhists will open borders and allow me to spread a little Way of the Spirit."

it can happen. i met a HUGE buddhist bloc in a recent game, isabella the founder. shaka had buddhism in all of his cities when i met him, full-fledged member of their club. i was conf and didn't want him looking at me as a target, so i put a lot of effort into it and he converted to conf and stayed there, we hit friendly and stayed there, and isabella became his worst enemy . i love it when a plan comes together!

pondering: you of course won't change religion if anybody asks you to, that's ridiculous. when hinduism first spread to Cawak, the shaman were incensed about the false spirits of men. was that anger about the presence of the religion, or about the message "hinduism has spread in your lands would you like to adopt it?" if the first, that's fine, and don't open the box, it contains heathen ideas! if the second,

Spoiler :

spreading hinduism to our cities that need happiness (when we have time and hammers for missionaries) will not only give them the option to build a temple, it'll add gold to the shrine that our brave warriors earned for us. all without requiring us to follow that faith. i can rationalize it by not spreading it to any other civs who might get confused by false gods, but hubby calls me the queen of rationalization and unlike a lot of his nicknames for me, that one i kind of agree with!

 

[Guardian_PL]

Very nice style Slobberinbear, like it a lot, shame it's Prince but with such handicaps gameplay is completely different. Heh, food economy in it's grace

All seems to be in place, AP helps with hammers (and no-bonus-hammers on other continent), watch Your economy, Optics, Caravels, You obviously know the drill

Now
How the hell You have such beautiful background on Your Research screen????

 

[Whitefire]

The stories are good, but you could cut back on the number of screenshots. Pick the ones that illustrate the story or drive the plot, there's no need to see the hang time of a fallen warrior.

*goes back to lurking in this thread*

 

[TRJS]

The stories are good, but you could cut back on the number of screenshots. Pick the ones that illustrate the story or drive the plot, there's no need to see the hang time of a fallen warrior.

Maybe once as it is quite amusing.

 

[slobberinbear]

Very nice style Slobberinbear, like it a lot, shame it's Prince but with such handicaps gameplay is completely different. Heh, food economy in it's grace

Thanks!

I wasn't sure what difficulty to play the game on -- I didn't know how to value the handicap -- how much it would hurt to not chop or whip. I figured it was worth a difficulty level, and I'm a Monarch player on a good day.

As it turned out, not chopping has only really affected two of my cities, Cawak and Illionois. In exchange for giving up the wood chopping hammers and more hammers from mining forested hills, I get more health and free up my workers for other stuff. I still think it's a handicap, though.

Not whipping is another story. Comanche and Illinois would have made great whipping cities, as each has 2 bonus food resources.

Put together, I'd say not chopping/whipping cost me about 1000 in the B.C. period.

All seems to be in place, AP helps with hammers (and no-bonus-hammers on other continent), watch Your economy, Optics, Caravels, You obviously know the drill

I know what to do as far as that goes. But I'm looking for help with the Grand Strategy. I guess we'll figure it out after we meet everyone and get the lay of the land.

Now How the hell You have such beautiful background on Your Research screen????

I installed the Blue Marble pack, which is in the Mods section here on CFC. It installs automatically when I load the game, so it's not like a normal mod in that respect. It overrides the standard background in the Epic Campaign and Final Frontier mods, but not the rest of the BTS Content, AFAIK. I like it, but you should know that it's incompatible with multiplayer at this time.

The stories are good, but you could cut back on the number of screenshots. Pick the ones that illustrate the story or drive the plot, there's no need to see the hang time of a fallen warrior.

Maybe once as it is quite amusing.

Fair enough. As I was posting the round I realized I was posting 50+ images. Reviewing it, I see what you mean: it's a lot to get through visually. Perhaps a word is worth a thousand pictures.

 

[slobberinbear]

Short term plans:

In Cawak, i'm going to get out the National Epic for more Philosophical/Wonderspam GPP goodness, then build Ocean Canoes (caravels) when they are available.

In Pueblo, the holy city, I'm thinking about cranking out Christian missionaries, both for my cities and Joao's.

Comanche needs to finish its marketplace. Did I mention that Iron was found in Comanche? That city has five great resources in its BFC. What a motherlode. I am tempted to switch to Caste System and run a bunch of scientists here, but I'm not sure Caste System fits with the Native American ethos. The idea of being born into a certain caste that determines your role in society ... hmm ... could we rework it in the spirit of the game? I suppose we could say that the Caste System is really a Spirit Destiny, granted a child when he/she is born. Gotta love predetermination.

Illinois, my production city, would be a great place from which to crank out settlers and garrison units, and also just units for the sake of preparedness and power rating.

I am likely going to build the Moai Statues in Tlingit (the northwest city with the copper and whales). I think it's the only way that city will ever be able to contribute.

Constantinople is a coastal wealth city with four bonus food tiles and is a holy city too. I'll build a lighthouse, market, and library there and may just build Wealth or Research, depending on the slider and the city's multipliers.

Research-wise, I'm putting Philosophy on the shelf for now (until the AI gets it, anyway) and focusing on getting Calendar and Optics. Getting Compass along the way will give some bonus income and health for some of my cities, too. And of course, metal casting/forges will be handy both for the production and happy bonuses, as I will have both gold and gems online in the near future. Civil Service is another tech I think I want pretty soon -- not just for Bureaucracy, either (though bonus hammers at Cawak would be great). The irrigation ability will come in handy at certain cities.

Last point: Do you think it's worth it to build Christian Spirit monasteries? Now that we have the AP, they may become more attractive (+2 hammers each), and will give me a way to make missionaries if we swap into Pacifism, say. We could also try to get the University of Sankore for the bonus beakers for religious buildings to add to the effect. Of course, the monasteries' benefits disappear later at Scientific Method, so the question is whether the boost for ~200 turns is worth it.

 

[Guardian_PL]

Thanks for Blue Marble, I'll try it tonight, I can't connect through Direct IP connection with my friend anyway (looks like there's something wrong with router settings/ports, but it's nearly impossible to check if it's me or him ), so I play singleplayer now.

I see no problem with Caste System. After all You need warriors, shamans, tutors... And shaman can be a sage (scientist), a trickster, mage (artist), I don't see problem with merchant caste either (many tribes, many cities, growing need for communication with smoke signals i.e. "we need fish")
All looks nice, thumbs up, I'm waiting for an update

PS. Monasteries with AP is a nice stuff, if You're running OR You'll build them in no time, and with Sangkore it will be a nice boost to both science and production. Besides who said that You won't manage to build Spiral Minaret?

 

[Scaphism]

The stories are great, don't cut back on those. I'm fine with the pictures, but I also like having something interesting to see when I get to work.

Moai Statues/Tlingit - I don't know where else I'd put the Moai Statues right now, but I thought you were trying to focus on making your good cities great instead of the mediocre ones...less mediocre.

When did you build the Statue of Zeus? You mentioned you were interested in it before your post and then in the wrap up you mentioned it was done.

Constantinople - as I've heard here many times, wealth/science that you build with hammers does not go through any multipliers. Maybe you knew that, hopefully it helps someone else out at least.

I don't have a lot of directional guidance to give - I tend to lost track of priorities around AD 1000 in many of my games. Plus we just don't know enough about the rest of the world to make any educated decisions right now.

I rarely go for a Cultural Victory but from what I gather here, now is a good time to consider if it's a route you want to take. If it is, you want to make Music a priority and get to work on the Sistine Chapel.

 

[slobberinbear]

The stories are great, don't cut back on those. I'm fine with the pictures, but I also like having something interesting to see when I get to work.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am finding that giving my units names and personalities helps me slow down and enjoy the game more -- which has the effect of greatly improving my play.

I will try to exercise restraint on the voluminous images, though, for my sake and yours.

Moai Statues/Tlingit - I don't know where else I'd put the Moai Statues right now, but I thought you were trying to focus on making your good cities great instead of the mediocre ones...less mediocre.

Good point. I may end up putting it in Constantinople, then. This would dovetail nicely with my plan to put the Forbidden Palace there. It would really make it a nice second capitol.

When did you build the Statue of Zeus? You mentioned you were interested in it before your post and then in the wrap up you mentioned it was done.

Was it round 2? I can't remember. I had the ivory hooked up and it finished pretty quickly.

Constantinople - as I've heard here many times, wealth/science that you build with hammers does not go through any multipliers. Maybe you knew that, hopefully it helps someone else out at least.

Actually, I had forgotten; thank you for the reminder. One more reason I suppose for Constantinople to be a hybrid city.

I rarely go for a Cultural Victory but from what I gather here, now is a good time to consider if it's a route you want to take. If it is, you want to make Music a priority and get to work on the Sistine Chapel.

I have played round 4, and let's just say I have another victory condition in mind. I'll post it later today, after I finish making IRL.

 

[phurph]

Constantinople - as I've heard here many times, wealth/science that you build with hammers does not go through any multipliers. Maybe you knew that, hopefully it helps someone else out at least.

Does building wealth/science receive hammer multipliers?

 

[Firewind]

Yes, it does - but the overflow from the last build is wasted. I found this to be quite helpful in a Broken Star game - with science turned down to Zero I could still research Future Tech in twenty-ish turns with just three cities building research, each of them with a forge, factory, and power, and one of them being my capital in Bureaucracy.

But that's besides the point. ;.; </derail>

 

[slobberinbear]

We started the round needing to (1) finish settling the Cawak homeland and the former Byzantine continent, (2) complete some key technologies, and (3) come to a conclusion on what to do about Joao.

The round ended up finishing relatively quickly (for me, anyway). We are now at a major decision point. More on that later, though.

Well, it was the Cawak Nation vs. the Portly Geese for the final peaceful colonization phase of the game. As the round started, Joao had 6 or 7 cities; the Cawak had 8. Who would win the land grab? Would the two nations of different faiths remain friendly?

It all started off very rosy. Joao was willing to part with two resources I needed:

He kept the same look the whole time. I wonder whether he received enough attention as a child.

The plan was to create settlers out of Illinois while improving my economy in my other cities by growing the cities, spreading the Way of the Spirit and building markets and courthouses. The strain of settlement on the economy was significant, but our slider never dropped below 40% and our beakers/turn never dropped.

A good example of growth and culture improving the economy: at the end of round 3, Constantinople had not had its first border pop and was working relatively poor squares adjacent to the city tile. Look at the difference after growth to size 5 and a border pop:

As some of you suggested, the city info screen is an easier way to see how we were doing. Here's the screen in 1030:

As you can see, Pueblo is making the most money (holy city) and Comanche is making the most beakers (from commerce and 2 scientists). Notice how Constantinople, though 6 pop smaller than those two cities, is still producing very well.

Note to newer players: this is what happens when you capture a capitol. You get a city that is really good.

Cawak then produced another great prophet. The odds were slightly higher for an engineer, but what the heck. The prophet, a Portugese follower of the Way, made Pueblo his permanent residence so that he could learn more of the Great Spirit and return to his homeland to spread the faith. The shamans were pleased, though put off by the strange mannerisms and bugging eyes of the race.

About this time I pulled the trigger on Caste System. I decided that it was within our Ethos to have children born with a certain aspect of the Great Spirit, a guardian spirit that would guide them through their life's journeys. Besides, Comanche was finally large enough and had enough food to run more than 2 scientists.

We got busy with the settling. I was getting paranoid that Joao's Imperialistic trait would start to kick into high gear.

The first site was the sugar-heavy location to the soutwest of Constantinople. I settled it to the south of the ruined Byzantine city.

Turns out we are doing well culturally, too. Maybe that is a victory option ...

The ruins of the Byzantine city yielded immediate research results:

We also founded the city to the east of Cawak, finally. I had pre-improved many of the tiles, so it was productive out of the gate:

And that's about when I noticed the first Portugese city on our new continent ...

 

[LiberiGlacialis]

Ouch. The little RExer got near the the spot you wanted first. And it looks like he'll get the horses as well. Drive him into the sea? No, you are "friends" with him, and you got those trades as well....Hmmmm....

 

[phurph]

I see you're researching CS. Does Bureau fit into your RP bounds? If you do adopt it, consider moving your capital to Comanche or Constantinople soon. Constantinople has lots to build right now though

I imagine this move will incense the elders, but hey, this isn't the ancient era anymore. They need to get with the times!

 

[Guardian_PL]

Again nothing to add, all goes well. Bureaucracy+Capital move... Yup. And Casinos (Theatres? Colliseums?) = modern approach

Now, I wanted to add that Blue Marble mod is reeeaaally NICE! I mean, surely it's a matter of taste but to me changes are huuge. It's an official NASA Project mod for Firaxis, that incorporates a lot from photographs taken by orbital telescopes
Plus, leaderheads are slightly moded, skin colour mostly, ladies look more smoothly while Survy is not monstrous-like anymore. Heh, Darius has moustache!
Terrain looks different, but very attractive to me. I loove tundra forests next to river, they look awesome...

 

[slobberinbear]

So we had to hurry to get our other cities down. Joao was on the move.

Research was progressing, even though the slider was coming down due to increased city maintenance. But the techs just kept on comin'.

Civil Service was next. I went ahead and made the switch to Bureaucracy. The Chief needed some administrators to help manage the growing Cawak nation:

The impact at Cawak was significant. As another civ had founded Taoism, I had gone back and picked up Philosophy and started building Angkor Wat, yet another stone wonder, in Cawak. Unfortunately, it had to wait until I had finished the National Epic there. I could have started it about 10 turns sooner in Pueblo, but I decided to try to build it in Cawak to keep the GPPs there growing.

The expansion race was nearly over, but through it all, Joao and I had remained peaceful with open borders and two resource trades. Surely, he wanted to be buddies, right?

Right?

The Chief shook his head sadly. Another arrogant whiteskin.

Let this be lesson #2 for new players. Why, you ask did Joao suddenly get uppity on me, when we had more positive modifiers than negatives? Here's why:

The power rating is one of the biggest measurements the AI civs take of your civilization. Once he overtook me, his obnoxious personality took over. Forgotten was the gift of Mathematics I'd given him and the centuries of peaceful trading. He was going to throw it all away for one silly tech.

That's what a slipping power rating does to you diplomatically. Turn your attention away from military too long, and this is what happens.

More bad news ... we missed Angkor Wat.

Lesson #3 for newbies: build the Wonder as soon as you are able. Had I built the darned thing in Pueblo right away, it would have completed before the AI built it. This was the proverbial bird in the hand that I let get away.

It was even stupider when you consider that I don't have chopping or whipping to rush a project; I knew better than to delay it.

We did get some positive news, though: the scientists in Comanche were making great progress on new warcraft for our braves. So much so, that one of them decided to found a War School for greater learning:

And, towards the end of the round, we managed to grab the last decent city site:

The peaceful expansion was over. What would follow?

The Comanche war-shaman placed the metal garments and weapons before Snarling Boar.

"I wear this?" he asked, pointing at the armor dubiously.

"Yes, Warleader. The metal will turn away a blade. And the weapon's power will crush bones."

He tried it on. It was heavy and he looked ridiculous. The war-shaman attached Snarling Boar's headdress to the helmet. Tassels of dyed leather hung from the shoulders and leggings of the mail. The weapon, too, was heavy, but he liked its feel. He whirled it around his head, sending the shaman ducking for cover.

"I like this war-club."

In other news, we finished the last goal tech of the round: Optics. As a bonus, this also let us hook up the whales finally.

Chief Slobbering Bear, faced with the decision of building another wonder or getting some ships out immediately had the canoe carvers working overtime to get out a few sailed Ocean Canoes to explore the high seas.

His was not the only decision to be made ...

She wandered alone for months, knowing. She saw it in the faces of the animals as she passed, in the way the dogs sniffed the air as she passed. It could not be denied. She was carrying his child.

The child was not the only thing gestating inside of her -- for also growing was a rage. A fury that the only man who'd ever loved her died at the hands of the southerners.

She strode through the countryside near Illinois lands. She saw the herd of beasts, and knew what must be done.

Her way with the beasts was legendary among the Cawak. The quiet calm of her youth was gone along with Black Feather. Weeks later, she emerged from the steppes, riding the beast, clad only in a loincloth, her naked, pregnant body painted in black and white warpaint.

She headed south to the straits.

 

[KMadCandy]

Does building wealth/science receive hammer multipliers?

Yes, it does - but the overflow from the last build is wasted.

But that's besides the point. ;.; </derail>

continued derailing ... the overflow is actually held in reserve for the next real build, not wasted. this is really handy for when you want to use the overflow for something you can't build yet, like your next tech will let you start a wonder. finish making something with a big chunk of overflow, then build wealth or science until you can start the wonder, and the overflow comes back . there may be a time limit on that, but surely it wouldn't be less than the 10-turn decay on building units.

 

[slobberinbear]

We are now faced with a decision or two. What victory condition to pursue, and how to do it.

1. War with Joao? We have RP justification for invasion: he has made a demand for tribute, settled in our territory, and worships false gods.

If we do war with him, we have a slight tech advantage. He has feudalism for longbows but no other medieval warfare techs. He is a long way from macemen, lacking Civil Service and Machinery (he's ages from Machinery, too ... hasn't even learned Metal Casting yet). So with a few rock-throwers and tribal mace warriors, Joao can be had.

Taking Joao out is even more attractive since he hasn't met anyone else yet either and hasn't gotten his UU Caravel yet. We can conquer him with no diplomatic penalties whatsoever. This will set the stage for us to pursue a domination victory. One more long war after Joao may win us the game.

I think we should go ahead and go after him, but let me hear your thoughts!

2. Research: If we go to war with Joao, I will want to get the remaining medieval war techs (Feudalism (uber Longbows with totem pole+protective+theology+vassalage), Engineering (trebs/pikes), and Guilds (knights). I would also want Divine Right so I could build Versailles in Lisbon and the Spiral Minaret back home in Cawak.

If we don't go to war with Joao, then it seems to me we are commiting to a cultural victory. We would need to pick up drama, music, and take the liberalism path ASAP.

My leaning, again, is Domination, since we have the tech edge and a half of our necessary forces already built.

 

[Sisiutil]

For a bunch of tree-huggers, the Cawak are turning out to be quite war-like.

 

[mice]

If it were me playing I'd have a hard time making this decision. Jao could be a sticky wicket, but the rewards would be great, and you could go for a cultural victory after taking him.

I'd set the capital to making galleys and triremes because your biggest obstacle is getting units there pronto as they are built. The other cities making 20+ hammers/turn should build catapults and maces asap, especially catapults.

I wouldnt wait around too long, but I'd only declare with ten or so catapults in boats.

His iron is right by a good landing point, Braganza, so you might be lucky and deprive him of knights,pikes,crossbows. Then the war will go well.

Braganza,Oporto,Lisbon, break out the pipe.