madscientist
RPC Supergenius
After numerous meetings with Joao in my games, my suggestion is to kill the %$^$&** when you have the chance.
BTS Roleplaying Challenge: Sitting Bull
- Thread starter slobberinbear
- Start date
Tyrant Roger
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2006
- Messages
- 203
If you decide to go to war, you may find crossbowmen to be a powerful part of your attack force against his melee units with the promotions they will be getting.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
That's a great point, since I'll be ramping up with totem pole + barracks + vassalage + theocracy. That's a crossbow starting with 10xp. City Garrison I, Drill I, and three bonus promotions!
I think maces are better overall city attackers, but a few crossbows are always fun to throw in there.
I will be building a mixed stack of maces and catapults with a few spears/pikes, crossbows, longbows, and elephants thrown in. I am hoping to take him out in one big campaign, so I'll have to be ready for War Weariness and the loss of the luxury items Joao was trading me. I will probably need to pick up drama, too, so I can raise the culture slider as necessary.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Round 5, 1290 A.D. to 1680 A.D.
War is hell. Or, more appropriately, war weariness is hell. Let this round be an example to all you newbie world conquerors out there.
At the end of the last round, we were at a crossroads. Should the double-dealing, tree-chopping, territory-stealing, bug-eyed freak from Portugal live?
I think not.
"Why do we fight, Great Father?" the child asked.
"We are the protectors of Earth, young one," Chief Slobbering Bear replied. "Will the oak defend itself? Can the bird deflect the lead bullet of a musket? No. Without the Cawak Nation, there is no Earth."
"My mother thinks we should stay to ourselves, and let the whiteskins be."
"And what would happen when the whiteskins come to Cawak in tall ships with long rifles? Will they listen to you then? No, they will not. The Cawak must be strong. When we are strong, they will listen. Some of them may hear the Great Spirit's voice. Others are deaf. But all will hear it, now or in the great future. They will hear it."
--
It wasn't long after we sent our first Ocean Canoe out that we met someone else's Caravel ...
Financial Pacal is the head Buddhist. His holy city/capitol, Mutal, is the other wonder-heavy city in the world. He's also in second place, behind us. Something will have to be done to prevent him from winning. More on him later.
We had some interesting random events this round, too. First, we drew the "Classic Literature" quest: build 7 libraries.
Then we met Pacal's neighbor, good ol' FDR:
He had a tech trade ready, but his price was steep ...
Right after that, I met his neighbor, Julius.
... who offered me the exact same trade!
Now before I continue, I want to let you know that I don't do reloads. If I mess up, I try to take it like a man. So please feel my pain when I tell you that I accidentally accepted this turkey of a tech trade.
There was a silver lining, though ... he sure liked the balance of trade! So much so, he offered me another.
Soon thereafter, our Ocean Canoes linked up near the ice cap in Mayan waters. We had the circumnavigation bonus. Put that in your peace pipe, Pacal!
Another random event, one I hadn't seen. I took the option granting us some beakers ...
And it was finally time for war. We had 3 galleys and a caravel escort to ferry over 3+ loads of troops to Joao's territory. In Portugal War I, we determined to strike a straight path to Lisbon, through two other cities. The first to land were Ewe Friend and Snarling Boar, guarding the rock throwers ...
We were also researching Astronomy at this point, by the way, so that we could upgrade the galleys to Galleons and get some intercontinental trade going, now that I'd met nearly everyone.
Of course, right after I declared on Joao, Rome declares on the U.S. ... and they both ask me to join them against the other!
I turned them both down.
War is hell. Or, more appropriately, war weariness is hell. Let this round be an example to all you newbie world conquerors out there.
At the end of the last round, we were at a crossroads. Should the double-dealing, tree-chopping, territory-stealing, bug-eyed freak from Portugal live?
I think not.
"Why do we fight, Great Father?" the child asked.
"We are the protectors of Earth, young one," Chief Slobbering Bear replied. "Will the oak defend itself? Can the bird deflect the lead bullet of a musket? No. Without the Cawak Nation, there is no Earth."
"My mother thinks we should stay to ourselves, and let the whiteskins be."
"And what would happen when the whiteskins come to Cawak in tall ships with long rifles? Will they listen to you then? No, they will not. The Cawak must be strong. When we are strong, they will listen. Some of them may hear the Great Spirit's voice. Others are deaf. But all will hear it, now or in the great future. They will hear it."
--
It wasn't long after we sent our first Ocean Canoe out that we met someone else's Caravel ...
Financial Pacal is the head Buddhist. His holy city/capitol, Mutal, is the other wonder-heavy city in the world. He's also in second place, behind us. Something will have to be done to prevent him from winning. More on him later.
We had some interesting random events this round, too. First, we drew the "Classic Literature" quest: build 7 libraries.
Then we met Pacal's neighbor, good ol' FDR:
He had a tech trade ready, but his price was steep ...
Right after that, I met his neighbor, Julius.
... who offered me the exact same trade!
Now before I continue, I want to let you know that I don't do reloads. If I mess up, I try to take it like a man. So please feel my pain when I tell you that I accidentally accepted this turkey of a tech trade.
There was a silver lining, though ... he sure liked the balance of trade! So much so, he offered me another.
Soon thereafter, our Ocean Canoes linked up near the ice cap in Mayan waters. We had the circumnavigation bonus. Put that in your peace pipe, Pacal!
Another random event, one I hadn't seen. I took the option granting us some beakers ...
And it was finally time for war. We had 3 galleys and a caravel escort to ferry over 3+ loads of troops to Joao's territory. In Portugal War I, we determined to strike a straight path to Lisbon, through two other cities. The first to land were Ewe Friend and Snarling Boar, guarding the rock throwers ...
We were also researching Astronomy at this point, by the way, so that we could upgrade the galleys to Galleons and get some intercontinental trade going, now that I'd met nearly everyone.
Of course, right after I declared on Joao, Rome declares on the U.S. ... and they both ask me to join them against the other!
I turned them both down.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Round 5, Part 2
Back to the action in Portugal.
After easily taking the westernmost city, our stack (consisting mainly of catapults, macemen, swordsmen, and a few elephants at this point) advanced to Oporto, the Confucian holy city that was directly en route to Lisbon.
When Snarling Boar first saw her, he had to look closely to see that it was Ewe Friend atop the tusked beast, her warcries piercing the battlefield. He wasn't sure who was more afraid of her, the Portugese or the Cawak ...
We took Oporto. Not much of it was intact, but the shrine was good as gold.
The Cawak warriors stared at her on the short march to Lisbon. Most dared not speak to her, the naked, pregnant animal-rider. Knowing not her true name, they called her The Mother of Battle.
Yes, Ewe Friend became our first great general and was renamed as you see here. I gave her the leadership and tactics promotions, and combat II.
Lisbon fell quickly after our spy caused unrest and eliminated the cultural defenses for a turn ...
Not a bad capitol for a tree-chopper. Amusingly, Joao then poisoned the water supply in his own capitol, but since the city wouldn't come out of disorder for 10 turns, the effects would be gone by the time order was restored.
At this point, war weariness was starting to kick in, and I was losing money hand over fist as I was capturing (not razing) cities. I elected to try to take out Joao's city on the Byzantine continent with a small force. His two longbows held out. I was hoping that Joao would capitulate, since I took his capitol, but no dice. I settled for the peace treaty and a few hundred gold. I had taken three of his cities, including his holy city and capitol.
I took the tribute and war booty and upgraded all of my galleys to galleons and swordsmen to maces.
The timing was therefore perfect for a Great Artist. Huh? Oh yes. You see, the Cawak economy was strained. What we needed was a civilization-wide production boost ... a Golden Age!
Dancing Lizard got funky in Cawak, and the people rejoiced.
The golden age was great. As I had been building units in my main cities, the 10 turns of extra production allowed me to get out a lot of infrastructure buildings (especially commerce buildings) in a short time. It was also necessary to make sure I didn't fall too far behind in tech.
I also switched out of my war techs and back to Bureaucracy and Organized Religion to take advantage of the no-anarchy benefit of the golden age.
Towards the end of the golden age, I sent a spy back into Portugese territory.
I love running counterespionage missions. They are almost always successful, and they really reduce the success rate of your enemy's spy missions. You can usually thwart 2-3 spy missions, believe it or not, from one counterespionage success. And it's a cheap mission, too.
With one turn left on the Golden Age, I switched back to Vassalage and Theocracy and loaded my build queues with units again.
Next on the hitlist was Guimares, the new capitol. Declaring war again set my war weariness right back to where it was, but I had more units and they were all at full strength. Thus began Portugal War II.
I had a spy create unrest there, too. Why fight the cultural defenses if you don't have to? The city was ours.
I moved the majority of the stack to the southwest to take out the two cities in that direction, hoping Joao would capitulate after I had half of his territory and his good cities. Ewe/Mother stayed behind in Guimares, healing.
The warriors thought she was screaming from a war wound, but it was the screams of labor. The child was coming.
A confused shaman assisted her, and when she saw the boy, she saw the face of her true love, Black Feather.
She howled in joy and sadness. She had seen all. Her time was ended.
The shaman didn't notice the deadness in her eyes after she turned to leave the baby with him.
"What shall I name him?" the shaman asked.
But she had left.
The Portugese horseman ran from her, the mount terrified of the beast she rode. She chased him, falling behind but never losing sight.
She came over a ridge to find a company of horse archers. With a shout, arrows were loosed all about her. The great beast staggered, and she was thrown.
"I am coming, my love," she whispered, and she leapt upon the oncoming lance.
--
The Cawak, led by Snarling Boar, took the other two cities to the southwest of Lisbon and razed a tundra city to the south. Still, Joao would not surrender. War Weariness was getting completely out of hand, and Snarling Boar (now a great general himself) was in a very exposed position. So I sued for peace and got some more money.
Caesar had a trade for me ...
I accepted it, though with great reluctance. He is not anywhere near the top score, and he and Roosevelt have fought for millenia to a standstill. My hope is to convert Julius to the Way of the Spirit and break up the Buddha bloc.
If it wasn't for the war weariness, which was crushing (I was running 30% culture, the rest on commerce ...) I felt could have kept going against Joao. And in fact, after I made peace, I wondered whether I shouldn't have just pressed on. By the time the 10 turns were up, I had over 45 (!) troops in Guimares, including knights and trebuchets now, ready to pounce on Joao's remaining 5 or 6 cities.
When I finally launched Portugal War III, it was short and brutal. I took two more cities and he finally capitulated. I, the player, was having war weariness too at this point.
Forgive me if I don't post the screenies. Suffice it to say that the Cawak trebuchets, perfected by the Comanche war-shamans, obliterated Joao's defenses.
This is all that Joao has left now:
And the bigger map of Portugal:
Here we see the economic impact in BTS of having large overseas holdings. As Versailles is already built, I'll never be able to get maintenance down in Portugal without going to State Property.
Did I mention I had met the last civ? Turns out Mongolia is also in the game, and poor Genghis is isolated on his own small continent and hopelessly backward.
Here's the current relations screen, with Cawak and the Maya as the targets:
And finally, the map of the western hemisphere, as I know it. The Maya are at the top, then the U.S., then Rome, then poor Genghis at the bottom alone.
Back to the action in Portugal.
After easily taking the westernmost city, our stack (consisting mainly of catapults, macemen, swordsmen, and a few elephants at this point) advanced to Oporto, the Confucian holy city that was directly en route to Lisbon.
When Snarling Boar first saw her, he had to look closely to see that it was Ewe Friend atop the tusked beast, her warcries piercing the battlefield. He wasn't sure who was more afraid of her, the Portugese or the Cawak ...
We took Oporto. Not much of it was intact, but the shrine was good as gold.
The Cawak warriors stared at her on the short march to Lisbon. Most dared not speak to her, the naked, pregnant animal-rider. Knowing not her true name, they called her The Mother of Battle.
Yes, Ewe Friend became our first great general and was renamed as you see here. I gave her the leadership and tactics promotions, and combat II.
Lisbon fell quickly after our spy caused unrest and eliminated the cultural defenses for a turn ...
Not a bad capitol for a tree-chopper. Amusingly, Joao then poisoned the water supply in his own capitol, but since the city wouldn't come out of disorder for 10 turns, the effects would be gone by the time order was restored.
At this point, war weariness was starting to kick in, and I was losing money hand over fist as I was capturing (not razing) cities. I elected to try to take out Joao's city on the Byzantine continent with a small force. His two longbows held out. I was hoping that Joao would capitulate, since I took his capitol, but no dice. I settled for the peace treaty and a few hundred gold. I had taken three of his cities, including his holy city and capitol.
I took the tribute and war booty and upgraded all of my galleys to galleons and swordsmen to maces.
The timing was therefore perfect for a Great Artist. Huh? Oh yes. You see, the Cawak economy was strained. What we needed was a civilization-wide production boost ... a Golden Age!
Dancing Lizard got funky in Cawak, and the people rejoiced.
The golden age was great. As I had been building units in my main cities, the 10 turns of extra production allowed me to get out a lot of infrastructure buildings (especially commerce buildings) in a short time. It was also necessary to make sure I didn't fall too far behind in tech.
I also switched out of my war techs and back to Bureaucracy and Organized Religion to take advantage of the no-anarchy benefit of the golden age.
Towards the end of the golden age, I sent a spy back into Portugese territory.
I love running counterespionage missions. They are almost always successful, and they really reduce the success rate of your enemy's spy missions. You can usually thwart 2-3 spy missions, believe it or not, from one counterespionage success. And it's a cheap mission, too.
With one turn left on the Golden Age, I switched back to Vassalage and Theocracy and loaded my build queues with units again.
Next on the hitlist was Guimares, the new capitol. Declaring war again set my war weariness right back to where it was, but I had more units and they were all at full strength. Thus began Portugal War II.
I had a spy create unrest there, too. Why fight the cultural defenses if you don't have to? The city was ours.
I moved the majority of the stack to the southwest to take out the two cities in that direction, hoping Joao would capitulate after I had half of his territory and his good cities. Ewe/Mother stayed behind in Guimares, healing.
The warriors thought she was screaming from a war wound, but it was the screams of labor. The child was coming.
A confused shaman assisted her, and when she saw the boy, she saw the face of her true love, Black Feather.
She howled in joy and sadness. She had seen all. Her time was ended.
The shaman didn't notice the deadness in her eyes after she turned to leave the baby with him.
"What shall I name him?" the shaman asked.
But she had left.
The Portugese horseman ran from her, the mount terrified of the beast she rode. She chased him, falling behind but never losing sight.
She came over a ridge to find a company of horse archers. With a shout, arrows were loosed all about her. The great beast staggered, and she was thrown.
"I am coming, my love," she whispered, and she leapt upon the oncoming lance.
--
The Cawak, led by Snarling Boar, took the other two cities to the southwest of Lisbon and razed a tundra city to the south. Still, Joao would not surrender. War Weariness was getting completely out of hand, and Snarling Boar (now a great general himself) was in a very exposed position. So I sued for peace and got some more money.
Caesar had a trade for me ...
I accepted it, though with great reluctance. He is not anywhere near the top score, and he and Roosevelt have fought for millenia to a standstill. My hope is to convert Julius to the Way of the Spirit and break up the Buddha bloc.
If it wasn't for the war weariness, which was crushing (I was running 30% culture, the rest on commerce ...) I felt could have kept going against Joao. And in fact, after I made peace, I wondered whether I shouldn't have just pressed on. By the time the 10 turns were up, I had over 45 (!) troops in Guimares, including knights and trebuchets now, ready to pounce on Joao's remaining 5 or 6 cities.
When I finally launched Portugal War III, it was short and brutal. I took two more cities and he finally capitulated. I, the player, was having war weariness too at this point.
Forgive me if I don't post the screenies. Suffice it to say that the Cawak trebuchets, perfected by the Comanche war-shamans, obliterated Joao's defenses.This is all that Joao has left now:
And the bigger map of Portugal:
Here we see the economic impact in BTS of having large overseas holdings. As Versailles is already built, I'll never be able to get maintenance down in Portugal without going to State Property.
Did I mention I had met the last civ? Turns out Mongolia is also in the game, and poor Genghis is isolated on his own small continent and hopelessly backward.
Here's the current relations screen, with Cawak and the Maya as the targets:
And finally, the map of the western hemisphere, as I know it. The Maya are at the top, then the U.S., then Rome, then poor Genghis at the bottom alone.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Round 5 Recap:
Though the round was only a few hundred years, it was long in the playing. And I kept having the sneaking suspicion as I played that little Pacal was teching like a madman while I was slinging rocks at Joao.
At this point, though, I'm committed to Domination. I have no other way to win, other than a time victory, which is like kissing your sister as they say in hockey. Plus, I'm sure Pacal would be able to win by space or diplomacy by 2050.
The current plan is to ramp up the economy again, get city maintenance down, finish converting all of our cities to the Way of the Spirit, and convert Julius too (we have open borders). At that point we are likely to get dragged into a war with Julius against the U.S., which suits our purposes. We can also see if Genghis wants to tussle (I seem to have garnered "worst enemy" status somehow, again), or if he will be bowed by the Cawak's might.
Or we could just go after Pacal.
Though the round was only a few hundred years, it was long in the playing. And I kept having the sneaking suspicion as I played that little Pacal was teching like a madman while I was slinging rocks at Joao.
At this point, though, I'm committed to Domination. I have no other way to win, other than a time victory, which is like kissing your sister as they say in hockey. Plus, I'm sure Pacal would be able to win by space or diplomacy by 2050.
The current plan is to ramp up the economy again, get city maintenance down, finish converting all of our cities to the Way of the Spirit, and convert Julius too (we have open borders). At that point we are likely to get dragged into a war with Julius against the U.S., which suits our purposes. We can also see if Genghis wants to tussle (I seem to have garnered "worst enemy" status somehow, again), or if he will be bowed by the Cawak's might.
Or we could just go after Pacal.
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,231
Hm, I wonder if Genghis wouldn't be enough to get Domination... He is backward, and obviously needs guidance, 
to him for dealing with horses, now You need to teach him to respect other animals too
Is it too late for Forbidden Palace on Joao's former lands?
Also, altough it's obvious, build up cultural buildings in conquered cities, I know that with capitulation it's all better but still "we yearn to join our Motherland" can be problematic. So theatres,libraries, (cheap)universities. With high food-surplus cities You can hire couple artists to do that job as well.
to him for dealing with horses, now You need to teach him to respect other animals too Is it too late for Forbidden Palace on Joao's former lands?
Also, altough it's obvious, build up cultural buildings in conquered cities, I know that with capitulation it's all better but still "we yearn to join our Motherland" can be problematic. So theatres,libraries, (cheap)universities. With high food-surplus cities You can hire couple artists to do that job as well.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
I built the FP in Constantinople, thinking I could place Versailles in Lisbon, but the AI beat me to it. 
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
"And I kept having the sneaking suspicion as I played that little Pacal was teching like a madman while I was slinging rocks at Joao."
and while the other 2 in the BBloc were bickering ... not such a warm & fuzzy bunch they are after all!
"The current plan is to ramp up the economy again, get city maintenance down, finish converting all of our cities to the Way of the Spirit, and convert Julius too (we have open borders). At that point we are likely to get dragged into a war with Julius against the U.S., which suits our purposes."
"Or we could just go after Pacal."
you have OB with all 3 buddhists. you also control theApostolic Palace Spirit Council which can enforce rulings all over the globe. a lot of people see the AP only as a way to "give everybody one city of my religion, vote myself to victory" thing. i don't. i see it as a glorious opportunity to try to control timing and backup in wars. i stink at wars, you beat me hands paws down in that area.
if you think it's something that fits with the story and beliefs of your people, and would help you out in some circumstances, you could do stuff like:
a) spread the one true faith to JC, as planned. spread it to Pacal a bit to see if his eyes open. don't spread it to Roos yet at all. then when as we predict we get involved in a roman/US war, you'll get an option as AP-resident to hold a vote for all of the AP members to go to war with the infidels, since Roos isn't a member at all. that gets Pacal involved in the war whether he wants to be or not. might slow him down at teching, or it might get him extra cities/resources, a bit of risk/reward excitement to calculate.
b) reverse that, spread faith to JC and to Roos, not to Pacal. that gives the option of AP votes to "stop the fighting among brothers of the faith" when you need WW breaks in any wars with Roos, but not a vote to drag in Pacal. when Roos is taken care of, you go for Pacal (or he comes at you) and then you get the "war against infidels" option and can vote to bring in JC for backup vs Pacal. risk is that JC in that case gets nice cities/resources you might have wanted for yourself. if Pacal takes any cities with our religion, he's not an infidel any more so that vote option goes away/stop the fighting vote option comes back until he loses those cities.
i might be making no sense at all.
stuff like that has saved my candybutt more than once. but i need that sort of help 10,000% more than you do, and i don't play with an RP story that has to match these votes the council decides to hold either. i'm sure you'll use discretion there, and trust you to ignore this whole line of thinking if it violates what the Spirit Council is about
.
and while the other 2 in the BBloc were bickering ... not such a warm & fuzzy bunch they are after all!
"The current plan is to ramp up the economy again, get city maintenance down, finish converting all of our cities to the Way of the Spirit, and convert Julius too (we have open borders). At that point we are likely to get dragged into a war with Julius against the U.S., which suits our purposes."
"Or we could just go after Pacal."
you have OB with all 3 buddhists. you also control the
if you think it's something that fits with the story and beliefs of your people, and would help you out in some circumstances, you could do stuff like:
a) spread the one true faith to JC, as planned. spread it to Pacal a bit to see if his eyes open. don't spread it to Roos yet at all. then when as we predict we get involved in a roman/US war, you'll get an option as AP-resident to hold a vote for all of the AP members to go to war with the infidels, since Roos isn't a member at all. that gets Pacal involved in the war whether he wants to be or not. might slow him down at teching, or it might get him extra cities/resources, a bit of risk/reward excitement to calculate.
b) reverse that, spread faith to JC and to Roos, not to Pacal. that gives the option of AP votes to "stop the fighting among brothers of the faith" when you need WW breaks in any wars with Roos, but not a vote to drag in Pacal. when Roos is taken care of, you go for Pacal (or he comes at you) and then you get the "war against infidels" option and can vote to bring in JC for backup vs Pacal. risk is that JC in that case gets nice cities/resources you might have wanted for yourself. if Pacal takes any cities with our religion, he's not an infidel any more so that vote option goes away/stop the fighting vote option comes back until he loses those cities.
i might be making no sense at all.
stuff like that has saved my candybutt more than once. but i need that sort of help 10,000% more than you do, and i don't play with an RP story that has to match these votes the council decides to hold either. i'm sure you'll use discretion there, and trust you to ignore this whole line of thinking if it violates what the Spirit Council is about
.Indibil
Chieftain
This sounds like the right game to create a colony if I ever saw one.
Vassals usually love you (you start with a +10 relation modifier and can even further it by giving them techs and trading with them).
Vassals usually love you (you start with a +10 relation modifier and can even further it by giving them techs and trading with them).
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
It depends on what victory condition he wants to pursue.
The overseas maintenance surcharge has certainly made domination victories a little tougher to accomplish, like they weren't hard enough already. Creating colonies would just about rule out a domination win, since only 50% of their land and population will count towards the totals needed.
Diplomatic definitely becomes an option since your colonies will likely vote for you. Space Race? It really depends on whether you think you've got sufficient production capacity from your home continent or not. For Cultural, all you need is 9 cities, so that's a possibility as well. Though I think he might have to keep the former Byzantine land mass rather than liberating it to have enough cities.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Round 6: The End
Where we last left off, I had committed myself to a Domination victory. There would be no cheesy AP win, no backing away to a namby-pamby diplomatic UN victory. No, the Great Spirit is alive in the Cawak, and he is angry.
Time for the tree-choppers to pay!
Here is where we started the round, victory-wise. As you can see, we were a long way off from our condition, particularly the land requirement.
These are the civics I had at the start of the round:
Chief Slobbering Bear desired to show Julius the Way of the Spirit. As the Roman was the only whiteskin that hadn't been a heel, the Chief felt pretty good about loading up three missionaries of the way and sending them across the seas to Rome.
The entire game turned on that move, as it turned out.
I was at peace, which was actually quite nice. I got to raise my tech slider all the way (!) to 40%, which seemed astronomically high after my war-weariness nightmare of round 5. I was convinced that I was behind in technology, and in fact, I never did catch up. As you can see, Pacal (little Financial bugger) was running away with things, even though my empire was at least triple the size of his.
I did quite a few tech trades with Julius in this round. No wonder he liked me so much ...
So I had moved my giant stack from Portugal back to the Byzantine continent. I had eventually converted Julius to the Way of the Spirit and was planning on attacking Roosevelt shortly. He kept demanding this and that.
Anyway, from out of nowhere:
I had to laugh. I had just picked up rifling and upgraded many of the units. Genghis' suicide amphibious attack didn't work out too well. I counter-attacked and took one of his coastal cities.
That was enough for him. I stopped and took a treaty because Genghis immediately upgraded to better units, and I wanted to take him completely out with a massive attack.
This was also distressing. My two biggest rivals, were first and third in power, and me sandwiched in the middle. I knew Pacal's tech edge would haunt me.
But I perservered. My goal was in sight, the dream of the Cawak Nation ... Trees for everyone! Yes!
Ahhh yes. The national park. Specialists galore! I got to work immediately on that in Cawak. I ended up putting a forest preserve on every forest and jungle tile in the Cawak Nation by the end of the game. That made a lot of extra commerce: +2 per tile. Is it better than chopping and cottaging? No. But it was fun.
I made my final civics switch of the game:
This is what Cawak looked like with the National Park and all the forest preserves:
And Julius converted to Christianity. His attitude towards Pacal cooled considerably. I had broken the Buddha bloc!
I was then ready to go after Genghis. Ironically, he and FDR had just started a war, so the timing was great. He didn't look too thrilled.
The story of the Mongolian War: It's good to have a massive amount of Renaissance troops, supported by cannons, when fighting medieval forces:
The war pressed on. About halfway through, he got Rifling and things slowed down a little. But I learned my lesson from the Portugal Wars: speed matters. I pressed on. I ended up having quite a supply line from the Cawak nation, across Byzantium, and over the seas to Mongolia.
Here's the Mongolian capitol. Not bad. As Genghis attacked us first, and was a serious tree chopper (I think there were four or five trees left on his continent ... !), I didn't feel too bad about the outcome.
Meanwhile, Caesar was squeezing me dry on tech trades. I was having to give him two for one, essentially. Grrr.
The war pressed on ...
Where we last left off, I had committed myself to a Domination victory. There would be no cheesy AP win, no backing away to a namby-pamby diplomatic UN victory. No, the Great Spirit is alive in the Cawak, and he is angry.
Time for the tree-choppers to pay!
Here is where we started the round, victory-wise. As you can see, we were a long way off from our condition, particularly the land requirement.
These are the civics I had at the start of the round:
Chief Slobbering Bear desired to show Julius the Way of the Spirit. As the Roman was the only whiteskin that hadn't been a heel, the Chief felt pretty good about loading up three missionaries of the way and sending them across the seas to Rome.
The entire game turned on that move, as it turned out.
I was at peace, which was actually quite nice. I got to raise my tech slider all the way (!) to 40%, which seemed astronomically high after my war-weariness nightmare of round 5. I was convinced that I was behind in technology, and in fact, I never did catch up. As you can see, Pacal (little Financial bugger) was running away with things, even though my empire was at least triple the size of his.
I did quite a few tech trades with Julius in this round. No wonder he liked me so much ...
So I had moved my giant stack from Portugal back to the Byzantine continent. I had eventually converted Julius to the Way of the Spirit and was planning on attacking Roosevelt shortly. He kept demanding this and that.
Anyway, from out of nowhere:
I had to laugh. I had just picked up rifling and upgraded many of the units. Genghis' suicide amphibious attack didn't work out too well. I counter-attacked and took one of his coastal cities.
That was enough for him. I stopped and took a treaty because Genghis immediately upgraded to better units, and I wanted to take him completely out with a massive attack.
This was also distressing. My two biggest rivals, were first and third in power, and me sandwiched in the middle. I knew Pacal's tech edge would haunt me.
But I perservered. My goal was in sight, the dream of the Cawak Nation ... Trees for everyone! Yes!
Ahhh yes. The national park. Specialists galore! I got to work immediately on that in Cawak. I ended up putting a forest preserve on every forest and jungle tile in the Cawak Nation by the end of the game. That made a lot of extra commerce: +2 per tile. Is it better than chopping and cottaging? No. But it was fun.
I made my final civics switch of the game:
This is what Cawak looked like with the National Park and all the forest preserves:
And Julius converted to Christianity. His attitude towards Pacal cooled considerably. I had broken the Buddha bloc!
I was then ready to go after Genghis. Ironically, he and FDR had just started a war, so the timing was great. He didn't look too thrilled.
The story of the Mongolian War: It's good to have a massive amount of Renaissance troops, supported by cannons, when fighting medieval forces:
The war pressed on. About halfway through, he got Rifling and things slowed down a little. But I learned my lesson from the Portugal Wars: speed matters. I pressed on. I ended up having quite a supply line from the Cawak nation, across Byzantium, and over the seas to Mongolia.
Here's the Mongolian capitol. Not bad. As Genghis attacked us first, and was a serious tree chopper (I think there were four or five trees left on his continent ... !), I didn't feel too bad about the outcome.
Meanwhile, Caesar was squeezing me dry on tech trades. I was having to give him two for one, essentially. Grrr.
The war pressed on ...
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Round 6: The End, part 2
Genghis was defeated fairly quickly. This was his last outpost:
As he had no cities anywhere else, I decided to go ahead an conquer him completely rather than vassalize him. I needed all the land I could get if I was going to win Domination. It did take me about 12 turns more to conquer him, though, than it would have to vassalize him. Those were 12 more cash-strapped, war weary years. I was starting to worry about what I would find when I met up with Pacal.
The endgame was nigh upon us. Could I get enough land scraped together to win? Or would Pacal's superior technology stymie me while he launched a giant Mayan ball court into space? Here's where things stood:
I went back to my salad dressing homie.
The game was afoot!
It was then, and only then, that I realized my espionage was horribly misdirected. I still had everything on Joao for all these years! Gah!
Meanwhile, little Pacal was starting to flex his power rating:
Julius had taken Atlanta from FDR. It was time for the Cawak Nation to join the fray!
The American war was marked by three things: a steadfast war partnership with Julius, who actually contributed; naval superiority, though I still hadn't researched combustion; and victory not through better troops, but through more troops.
Julius and I wore him down and had taken about 2/3 of his cities. Julius ended up taking 2 total cities for himself; I had 5 or 6. Here's Washington. FDR, even though he's industrious, didn't get much done wonder-wise in this game. I wonder why?
Well we were marching through U.S. territory slowly but steadily. Roosevelt was on the ropes. It was time to deliver the knockout blow. And then look what happened:
Yep. FDR voluntarily became Pacal's vassal. Pacal then declared on me, Julius, and the ineffectual plastic surgery nightmare, Joao.
The final war was on!
Here's how it was lined up:
Notice Joao has inherited the "halo" position recently vacated by Genghis.
Pacal immediately took back Los Angeles and Boston, the runt. He was using Infantry, SAM infantry, anti-tank units, and artillery. I had just gotten Assembly line and was using Infantry/Rifles and Cannons. Eeeep!
Now that FDR had a sugar daddy, ending the war against him was going to be hard. And the FDR war weariness was starting to get out of hand. I had no way of researching to try to get Artillery, Transports, and Destroyers as long as I was at war with the U.S. But neither Pacal or FDR would take peace. I knew it was a matter of time before my galleons were sunk by Pacal's destroyers, which I expected every turn.
The only way to solve this dilemma was to conquer FDR completely and end the majority of the war weariness. He had three cities left. I took the two coastal cities and then pressed to his last bastion:
My war weariness plummeted the next turn. Could I now take the fight to Pacal, outclassed in tech but supported by Julius?
Um, no.
Pacal had Combustion, and his Destroyers and transports soon appeared on the map. My galleons and frigates were forced to go into port or be sunk. My troop-ferrying operation ground to a halt.
I needed to take a break from the war. I sought peace, but he wanted tribute:
As you will recall, the Cawak Nation does not pay tribute. So the war continued, unfortunately.
Here is Pacal's territory and the edge of our "line":
I decided he may be more amenable to a cease fire with no tribute if I killed some of his units and lowered his rating. After a couple of turns of hunting down some of his stray units, he was willing to take a break:
You're not the only one with a migraine, pal.
I was tantalizingly close to victory:
Could we take advantage of the respite to win the game?
Stay tuned!
Genghis was defeated fairly quickly. This was his last outpost:
As he had no cities anywhere else, I decided to go ahead an conquer him completely rather than vassalize him. I needed all the land I could get if I was going to win Domination. It did take me about 12 turns more to conquer him, though, than it would have to vassalize him. Those were 12 more cash-strapped, war weary years. I was starting to worry about what I would find when I met up with Pacal.
The endgame was nigh upon us. Could I get enough land scraped together to win? Or would Pacal's superior technology stymie me while he launched a giant Mayan ball court into space? Here's where things stood:
I went back to my salad dressing homie.
The game was afoot!
It was then, and only then, that I realized my espionage was horribly misdirected. I still had everything on Joao for all these years! Gah!
Meanwhile, little Pacal was starting to flex his power rating:
Julius had taken Atlanta from FDR. It was time for the Cawak Nation to join the fray!
The American war was marked by three things: a steadfast war partnership with Julius, who actually contributed; naval superiority, though I still hadn't researched combustion; and victory not through better troops, but through more troops.
Julius and I wore him down and had taken about 2/3 of his cities. Julius ended up taking 2 total cities for himself; I had 5 or 6. Here's Washington. FDR, even though he's industrious, didn't get much done wonder-wise in this game. I wonder why?
Well we were marching through U.S. territory slowly but steadily. Roosevelt was on the ropes. It was time to deliver the knockout blow. And then look what happened:
Yep. FDR voluntarily became Pacal's vassal. Pacal then declared on me, Julius, and the ineffectual plastic surgery nightmare, Joao.
The final war was on!
Here's how it was lined up:
Notice Joao has inherited the "halo" position recently vacated by Genghis.
Pacal immediately took back Los Angeles and Boston, the runt. He was using Infantry, SAM infantry, anti-tank units, and artillery. I had just gotten Assembly line and was using Infantry/Rifles and Cannons. Eeeep!
Now that FDR had a sugar daddy, ending the war against him was going to be hard. And the FDR war weariness was starting to get out of hand. I had no way of researching to try to get Artillery, Transports, and Destroyers as long as I was at war with the U.S. But neither Pacal or FDR would take peace. I knew it was a matter of time before my galleons were sunk by Pacal's destroyers, which I expected every turn.
The only way to solve this dilemma was to conquer FDR completely and end the majority of the war weariness. He had three cities left. I took the two coastal cities and then pressed to his last bastion:
My war weariness plummeted the next turn. Could I now take the fight to Pacal, outclassed in tech but supported by Julius?
Um, no.
Pacal had Combustion, and his Destroyers and transports soon appeared on the map. My galleons and frigates were forced to go into port or be sunk. My troop-ferrying operation ground to a halt.
I needed to take a break from the war. I sought peace, but he wanted tribute:
As you will recall, the Cawak Nation does not pay tribute. So the war continued, unfortunately.
Here is Pacal's territory and the edge of our "line":
I decided he may be more amenable to a cease fire with no tribute if I killed some of his units and lowered his rating. After a couple of turns of hunting down some of his stray units, he was willing to take a break:
You're not the only one with a migraine, pal.
I was tantalizingly close to victory:
Could we take advantage of the respite to win the game?
Stay tuned!
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Round 6: the End, (really)
The 10 turns off were a godsend. We shipped across about 20 more troops, unmolested, into the former U.S. We were also getting some production out of the Mongolian cities too, believe it or not. We were also able to get Artillery and Combusion researched.
I was about two turns away from redeclaring on Pacal when Julius beat me to it:
How could I say no? Look at that prayerful face! The Spirit is within him!
We went to take back Boston. I sent a couple of spies in for counterespionage and just to look in his cities a bit. The Maya still had a tech edge on me, but I was outproducing him heavily.
We got another great general, by the way. Thunder Ram, Comanche war-shaman, was attached to an artillery unit. I thought it would be fun to have a GG artillery. Good stuff.
We were also able to establish naval superiority on Pacal's east coast, which was key. He was no longer able to interdict my supply lines, as you can see:
During one comical juncture of the Mayan War, Julius was bribed for peace by Pacal. I found myself suddenly stalemated against Pacal. Eventually, the AP saved me ... I was able to force through a resolution to war against the Maya, and Julius was back in.
Above is another bit of "fun with AI war allies" -- Julius ended up capturing two of Pacal's cities, after I had knocked them down to one or two units. It was so frustrating, I had to grab a Fresca.
Snarling Boar had been promoted to an Infantryman by now. He had Combat VI, Drill I, Leadership, and Tactics. He and Thunder Ram nearly bought it, but they actually survived to the end...
After some consolidation of forces, we marched on Mutal, ready to put an end to the Maya capitol. Pacal was spent.
Nice capitol, too.
The Cawak Nation was victorious! The Great Spirit will flow through the Earth! Humanity will live in harmony with nature once again!
The 10 turns off were a godsend. We shipped across about 20 more troops, unmolested, into the former U.S. We were also getting some production out of the Mongolian cities too, believe it or not. We were also able to get Artillery and Combusion researched.
I was about two turns away from redeclaring on Pacal when Julius beat me to it:
How could I say no? Look at that prayerful face! The Spirit is within him!
We went to take back Boston. I sent a couple of spies in for counterespionage and just to look in his cities a bit. The Maya still had a tech edge on me, but I was outproducing him heavily.
We got another great general, by the way. Thunder Ram, Comanche war-shaman, was attached to an artillery unit. I thought it would be fun to have a GG artillery. Good stuff.
We were also able to establish naval superiority on Pacal's east coast, which was key. He was no longer able to interdict my supply lines, as you can see:
During one comical juncture of the Mayan War, Julius was bribed for peace by Pacal. I found myself suddenly stalemated against Pacal. Eventually, the AP saved me ... I was able to force through a resolution to war against the Maya, and Julius was back in.
Above is another bit of "fun with AI war allies" -- Julius ended up capturing two of Pacal's cities, after I had knocked them down to one or two units. It was so frustrating, I had to grab a Fresca.
Snarling Boar had been promoted to an Infantryman by now. He had Combat VI, Drill I, Leadership, and Tactics. He and Thunder Ram nearly bought it, but they actually survived to the end...
After some consolidation of forces, we marched on Mutal, ready to put an end to the Maya capitol. Pacal was spent.
Nice capitol, too.
The Cawak Nation was victorious! The Great Spirit will flow through the Earth! Humanity will live in harmony with nature once again!
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
Some Final Thoughts
It was a hard-fought win. At several junctures I thought the Cawak would lose, but we pulled it out.
Some observations:
War Weariness: If you're a warmonger, you have to pay major attention to this. If you don't win your wars quickly, bad things happen.
Domination Victory: because you have to control such a huge portion of land, you can't raze your enemy targets. This in turn sets up mammoth maintenance costs. Since I couldn't take State Property (under the RP rules, I was committed to Environmentalism), I had no way out but to have about half of my conquered cities building Wealth just to breakeven. Combined with having to use the culture slider heavily to deal with War Weariness, my research rate tumbled.
Overall Strategy: I think I did well until the Portugese war. If I did it over again, I would have kept researching to Rifling and then gone after Joao with Rifles. I think I would have defeated him more quickly and been in a better position techwise vis a vis Pacal.
Hurrying/Sloppiness: I can't tell you how many times I missed something stupid or hit the wrong keystroke at the wrong time (pressing E for explore, instead of W for wait, comes to mind ... arrgh!). As the game wore on, it became something of a test of endurance to finish it, and I know my play suffered for it.
I welcome any other critiques or comments.
I'll be making a final "RP" post, epilogue style, tomorrow. Now, I'm just too tired.
I want to thank everyone who posted for their advice and comments. This thread has been very involving, and because of the time and effort required, I respect Sisiutil now more than ever for his dedication and commitment.
It was a hard-fought win. At several junctures I thought the Cawak would lose, but we pulled it out.
Some observations:
War Weariness: If you're a warmonger, you have to pay major attention to this. If you don't win your wars quickly, bad things happen.
Domination Victory: because you have to control such a huge portion of land, you can't raze your enemy targets. This in turn sets up mammoth maintenance costs. Since I couldn't take State Property (under the RP rules, I was committed to Environmentalism), I had no way out but to have about half of my conquered cities building Wealth just to breakeven. Combined with having to use the culture slider heavily to deal with War Weariness, my research rate tumbled.
Overall Strategy: I think I did well until the Portugese war. If I did it over again, I would have kept researching to Rifling and then gone after Joao with Rifles. I think I would have defeated him more quickly and been in a better position techwise vis a vis Pacal.
Hurrying/Sloppiness: I can't tell you how many times I missed something stupid or hit the wrong keystroke at the wrong time (pressing E for explore, instead of W for wait, comes to mind ... arrgh!). As the game wore on, it became something of a test of endurance to finish it, and I know my play suffered for it.
I welcome any other critiques or comments.
I'll be making a final "RP" post, epilogue style, tomorrow. Now, I'm just too tired.
I want to thank everyone who posted for their advice and comments. This thread has been very involving, and because of the time and effort required, I respect Sisiutil now more than ever for his dedication and commitment.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Congratulations on a hard-earned victory while staying within the RP guidelines you set for yourself. 
As I said earlier, for a bunch o' granola-lovin' tree huggers, the Cawak turned out to be awfully bloodthirsty. Guess it's proof you can't blame everything on red meat.
Pacal is not only quite the little tech fiend, he's also a wonder-whore despite lacking the Industrious trait. I took Mutal in a recent off-line game and it was chock full of wonders as well.
So who's next for the RP challenge? If you want to stick with BTS leaders, what about Lincoln? Obviously he can't ever run Slavery; has to adopt Emancipaton as soon as it's available (and maybe Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Free Market, and/or Free Religion too...); and can't ever allow a city to secede from the union, not through culture or conquest. Among other things, I'm sure. The preferred victory condition would be space race--first to Alpha Centauri, er, the moon! (Though I suppose that would apply more if Kennedy was in the game.)
As I said earlier, for a bunch o' granola-lovin' tree huggers, the Cawak turned out to be awfully bloodthirsty. Guess it's proof you can't blame everything on red meat. Pacal is not only quite the little tech fiend, he's also a wonder-whore despite lacking the Industrious trait. I took Mutal in a recent off-line game and it was chock full of wonders as well.
So who's next for the RP challenge? If you want to stick with BTS leaders, what about Lincoln? Obviously he can't ever run Slavery; has to adopt Emancipaton as soon as it's available (and maybe Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Free Market, and/or Free Religion too...); and can't ever allow a city to secede from the union, not through culture or conquest. Among other things, I'm sure. The preferred victory condition would be space race--first to Alpha Centauri, er, the moon! (Though I suppose that would apply more if Kennedy was in the game.)
Fjortisbarn
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 10
Congratulations on a hard-earned victory while staying within the RP guidelines you set for yourself.
Pacal is not only quite the little tech fiend, he's also a wonder-whore despite lacking the Industrious trait. I took Mutal in a recent off-line game and it was chock full of wonders as well.
So who's next for the RP challenge? If you want to stick with BTS leaders, what about Lincoln? Obviously he can't ever run Slavery; has to adopt Emancipaton as soon as it's available (and maybe Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Free Market, and/or Free Religion too...); and can't ever allow a city to secede from the union, not through culture or conquest. Among other things, I'm sure. The preferred victory condition would be space race--first to Alpha Centauri, er, the moon! (Though I suppose that would apply more if Kennedy was in the game.)
Wouldn't it be even funnier to play as Stalin? I mean, Slavery, Police State and State Property, as well as the "Not one step backwards!"-idea, throwing loads and loads of obsolete troops against the other capitalist civilizations, and never retreat?
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,231
Nice game, thanks for dynamic progress and no cheating. True gamer's spirit.
As for WW I've noticed that from Industrial times it hits really, really hard. Also in conquered cities You have "we yearn to join our Motherland" problem, well unless one manage to eradicate whole nation (I'd add some negative diplo bonuses for mass genocide like that...). So yeah, war-mongering is not a piece of cake
Heh, heh. Cool, but not Stalin please. Take Pete or Cathryn Janeway, not him.
As for WW I've noticed that from Industrial times it hits really, really hard. Also in conquered cities You have "we yearn to join our Motherland" problem, well unless one manage to eradicate whole nation (I'd add some negative diplo bonuses for mass genocide like that...). So yeah, war-mongering is not a piece of cake
Wouldn't it be even funnier to play as Stalin? I mean, Slavery, Police State and State Property, as well as the "Not one step backwards!"-idea, throwing loads and loads of obsolete troops against the other capitalist civilizations, and never retreat?
Heh, heh. Cool, but not Stalin please. Take Pete or Cathryn Janeway, not him.
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