[BTS] The History of Three Kingdoms

[AnotherPacifist]

Did the pedia say so? I hope not. Yuan Shao is Yuan Shu's half-brother, not half-cousin (there isn't such a thing as a half-cousin, since whatever you define as a half-cousin may still be called a cousin in European culture, I think).

The two Yuans have the same father, with Yuan Shao being older but his mother is a concubine, and Yuan Shu is younger and son of the wife. That explains partly why they hate each other: Shao thinks he is older, but Shu thinks he has the proper bloodline. And of course, they are from one of the most powerful and influential families of the time.

My bad. I meant half brother, since Yuan Shao was actually the adopted (not biological) son of Yuan Shu's father's brother, i.e. their uncle. So technically they are cousins, but in fact they are brothers. Does half-brother/cousin sound OK? (I was trying to buy into their family disputes by denigrating them as half) From Wikipedia:

Yuan Shao was an offspring of the Minister of Agriculture Yuan Feng (袁&#36898, and an elder half-brother of Yuan Feng's son, Yuan Shu, both were great-grandson of Yuan An, as recorded by the Book of Wei (魏&#26360 by Wang Chen (王&#27784. Yuan Shao's mother was originally a maid in Yuan Feng's house, and since Yuan Feng lacked male offspring, the birth of Yuan Shao elevated his mother's status from a maid to a concubine. The Records of Three Kingdoms claimed that Yuan Shao was elder cousin to Yuan Shu. The reason for this was that Yuan Feng's older brother also lacked any male offsprings so Yuan Shao was adopted by Yuan Feng's older brother as his son. This adoption infuriated Yuan Shu, because despite also being a concubine's son, the younger Yuan Shu had a mother originally with higher status. The adoption of Yuan Shao by their elder uncle meant that Yuan Shao had become the eldest son of the clan, and would enjoy all the privileges associated with being the eldest. In their disputes in the later years, Yuan Shu would use the Yuan Shao's mother as an excuse to claim that Yuan Shao was really not a true son of the Yuan family, which inevitably would infuriate Yuan Shao. Yuan Shao was also a childhood friend of his future rival, Cao Cao.

Speaking of Cao Cao, he got decimated by Yuan Shao in my game right before I won.

 

[CaoHong]

Sorry for the repost but I don't want my problem to get lost in a sea of replies

...after finally installing the thing it seems that the Sanguo maps and scenarios are not showing up on the menu. I attempted the earlier advice of selecting the maps straight from the folder but this brought up a 'which program would you like to use to open this file window.'

I definitley have the mod loaded and the icons have changed (like the Red Hare busy icon), yet the scenario and maps still do not show.

 

[xxhe]

If it shows "which program would you like to use to open this file window" to all the maps you choose. I think the reason may be that you haven't installed your civ program correctly, so the related information was not existed in regedit.

 

[CaoHong]

That would be odd, as I downloaded, updated and installed the program through Steam, which seems to have put the Civ files in the MyGames folder.

 

[xxhe]

the Sanguo Mod folder should be put in your Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods folder. Maybe you put it in a wrong folder?

 

[CaoHong]

the Sanguo Mod folder should be put in your Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods folder. Maybe you put it in a wrong folder?

That must be the problem then because Steam does not put the game files in a folder called Firaxis Games. I tried putting the game files into a Firaxis Games folder myself and it still did not work and actually wouldn't find mod at all.

I guess you cant use the mod if you have the game fromSteam =/

 

[xxhe]

That must be the problem then because Steam does not put the game files in a folder called Firaxis Games. I tried putting the game files into a Firaxis Games folder myself and it still did not work and actually wouldn't find mod at all.

I guess you cant use the mod if you have the game fromSteam =/

Ah...In fact you dont need to have the Firaxis Games folder to run this MOD. Sorry that my words may be confusing.
What I mean is that you need to put Sanguo mod in the Beyond the Sword\Mods folder. The default folder is Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods folder. However, if you install your civ in some other folders, you should put the mod in the corresponding Beyond the Sword\Mods folder in the path of your civ game. Hope it clarifies

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I suggest going into the Program Files folder in your C: drive and going into te folder for Firaxis Games there.

 

[CaoHong]

yeah, Steam keeps the files in a very convoluted series of folders which I found and placed the mod into, I also found an installation in the My Games folder, so i thought sod it and I've uninstalled Steam (and civ4) and I'm in the process of reinstalling everything now.

I was probably putting the folder into the wrong installation. But that would not explain why it allowed me to load the mod in the first place, as if it was in the wrong installation, it shouldn't have found the mod at all and not just being unable to find the china map.

I'll see what happens when I reinstall everything. Thanks for all the help and patience

 

[Jack Russel]

Excuse me... but i tried to download this Mod about 7 times and in all of them some files came corrupted

 

[xxhe]

Sometimes older version winrar cannot unzip zip files, I dont know why, but using 7z to unzip zip files should have no problem.

 

[CaoHong]

FINALLY!

I have the mod working. The reinstall/install and some mental file reorganaisation was succesful!

Ill post my thoughts on the gameplay a little later on...been playing for six hours >.>

 

[Gudinsdiv]

One the first games I ever played on a console was RTK for Nintendo--the first one! Still one of the best strategy wargames I've played. In fact, I only got a Playstation 2 so I could play the newest version of RTK. Have even dug up the books at the Ocean County Librbary and what a great read.

That aside, I had wondered what it would take to craft a MOD for Civ 4.

Not on speed, acid, or any creative combination thereof could have brought this outta me.

AWESOME.
Thanks for an outstanding MOD and just plain brilliant re-working of the game to allow the proper perspective, balance, and drama of this era.

 

[Gun Urra]

Yes, you are correct, all the leaderheads are from KOEI's ROTK 11, just as we have openly stated in the first post. They are really great.

Did you get permission from Koei to redistribute their art?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Shu is so defensible after Zhang Lu is vassalized or eliminated: there are only 4 chokepoints to defend and elephants are indestructible against horses. Zhuge Liang should have just turtled in Shu forever.

I never realized why Liu Zhang is so powerful in early game until now, it's because he's got the irrigation system wonder early on which gives him free great engineers. Chengdu had no less than 9 wonders if I remember right. Being spiritual is also very powerful in economy/foreign relations and whipping those wonders out before Cao Cao.

Liu Zhang also has the Incan power of being able to use mountains for 1 food and 2 hammers.

Spoiler :

 

[CaoHong]

Ive had a chance to play around with the mod now and I think is absolutely amazing. It adds a whole new dimension to civ and the inherent difficulty level presented by which civilization you choose means it has considerable replayability.

I wanted to ask if you were considering adding more scenarios to show the development of China throughout the period? For instance, (and this is just an example) a scenario with Ma Chao (who at one point owned more land than Liu Bei ever did) as a civ and other key stages like that, much like the Dynasty Wariors: Empires series does. This could culminate in the final show down between Shu, Wu and Wei as the only playable civs. Indeed, you could do a number of Shu Wu and Wei scenarios based on different times.

More pre-made scenario options would make this mod fantastic.

I do have a question though. How the hell do you go about Vassalising? Is it something that just appears on the diplomacy screen when its avaailable? =/

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Vassalizing needs Laws of Wei. (It took me a while looking it up, playing Sun Ce when my happiness was in the dumps after I killed all my immediate neighbors)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I hate to say this but now that I've played Sun Ce, the AI is just bungling Sun Ce's advantages. Just using my starting units I killed Liu Yao, Yan Baihu and Wang Lang with just the loss of 2 catapults and a swordsman. From then it was basically biding my time in peace until I can vassalize Yuan Shu, and I got 3 voluntary vassals. Built almost all the wonders except for Zheng's Library, Tianlu Library and Jianchu Temple (to which Cao beat me by 3 moves).

Could have gone conquest also--by the time I started culturing I was the only one with Princedoms and could probably have gotten knights way before Cao Cao, who decided to war on Yuan Shao instead, so stabbing him in the back was definitely possible.

Too bad emperor (ironically the equivalent of universal suffrage) wasn't an option ("cannot be researched"), since I had close to 12000 gold at the end and spent it on buying a tech from Zhang Lu.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

How about some unique historical victories? Might make civs like Shan Yue more playable.
For example:
Liu Bei:
1. Vassalize or control Liu Zhang and Liu Biao
2. Spread Revival to 75% of population
3. Rescue the emperor and put him in your capital

Cao Cao:
1. Vassalize/control everybody in the north
2. Sink 30 ships (unlike Red Cliff where he lost all his navy)
3. Control 40% of land

Yan Baihu:
1. Survive until 205
2. Control Wang Lang's area
3. Capture any of Sun Ce's cities

Ma Teng:
1. Have 10 horse sources available to your capital
2. Capture Chang An
3. Eliminate Han Sui OR form a defensive pact with him

Zhang Lu:
1. Spread Religion to 75% of all cities
2. Capture Cheng Du by 211
3. Control or vassalize Ma Teng (actually Ma Chao)

 

[stmartin]

Thanks AP. Well, doing that kind of research is partly my job

Let's hear from the team on what they think. I am equally eager to hear about their comments on Hu Bao Qi (tiger and panther calvary).

There is a Mounted unit called Tiger Rider in the mod. And Cao Cao already has 2 UUs and 2 UBs. Consider all that, Tiger and panther rider may not be a necessity. Of course, if there's a really interesting idea about the unit that brings good gameplay, then it's still possible.

Playing the mod will make one's already good ideas even better, I think.

Hey guys

This is an awesome mod.

I just ran it for some time, but there are too many civs for my poor old computer to handle. Is there a scenario with fewer civs by any chance?

Yes, there's a smaller map under development. Also, some steps have been taken to accelerate the mod. Hopefully in the next release you will feel much better.

Great mod, a lot of work behind clearly. One single remark: the last 1/3 of the game is just tooooooooooooo long and not intersting at all: fight a long and sure fight to reach the land domination limit: I had it palyin Yuan Shao (the yellow guy up north with the huge map) and had it again playing Sun Ce in the smaller map.
I'm maybe going to try it on a random map

Play a higher difficulty or play a weaker faction will help, but to solve late game stagnancy problem we need some really bright idea.

Did you get permission from Koei to redistribute their art?

Not exactly, before introducing artworks from KOEI into this mod, we thought copyright might be a problem. So we checked the Japanese copyright law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_copyright_law) to make sure that we are not infringing someone’s copyright. We found that non-profit reproduction of artwork is in the exception list, as it stated: “Non-profit performance: Works can be performed or exhibited freely if the performer is not remunerated, and the audience is not charged an admission fee.” And as it required that “If one of the above exceptions to reproduce a work publicly is used, the person reproducing the work must cite its source” We clearly stated the source of leaderhead art and give full credits to KOEI.

Since we are not lawyer, our action was based upon the resource of Japanese law we could find. If the wiki is wrong or you know some other Japanese laws forbid what we do, please tell me, and we’ll use other pictures instead. Thanks.

Ive had a chance to play around with the mod now and I think is absolutely amazing. It adds a whole new dimension to civ and the inherent difficulty level presented by which civilization you choose means it has considerable replayability.

I wanted to ask if you were considering adding more scenarios to show the development of China throughout the period? For instance, (and this is just an example) a scenario with Ma Chao (who at one point owned more land than Liu Bei ever did) as a civ and other key stages like that, much like the Dynasty Wariors: Empires series does. This could culminate in the final show down between Shu, Wu and Wei as the only playable civs. Indeed, you could do a number of Shu Wu and Wei scenarios based on different times.

More pre-made scenario options would make this mod fantastic.

More scenarios are a good direction. But Rome is not built in a day, so do the Three Kingdoms. Patience, my friend.

How about some unique historical victories? Might make civs like Shan Yue more playable.

En...Yeah, it makes this mod brother of RFC, which is a good thing

RFC has one map. For now this mod has 2, and soon will be 3 or more.

RFC has 2 scenarios. For now this mod has 1, but eventually will be quite a few.

Also, this mod will have some historical events and would-be events. And this mod is a random-map based mod.

All these factors must be taken into account when deciding to include something like historical victory. Apparently it's a bit more complex to implement it in our mod than in RFC.

The best thing about historical victory is to encourage player to play in some refreshing new way. Can we achieve similar effect via some other route?