[BTS] The History of Three Kingdoms
- Thread starter stmartin
- Start date
Ambreville
Deity
I had played this mod about a year ago, and eventually removed it because the AI's turn sequence was too darn slow on my (low end) computer. I'm delighted to see this has been fixed in a great way! At least the turns are completed in a reasonably timely manner, which makes the game so much more enjoyable.
Massive kudos here!
I really liked a lot of the game features and the consistent design theme. Here are a few issues I have (not everyone will agree with me -- that's okay, I'm just posting my two-cents' worth. I'm not looking for an argument.)
1. There ought to be an optional version for non-Chinese-speaking gamers. In particular, it would translate the names of the leaders/factions into English. I normally would not support this approach, because it is cool to have the original Chinese names, BUT the learning curve is a real problem with this many Civs in play at the beginning of the game. To a non-Chinese speaker, the names are horrendously confusing.
2. The system of the war leaders/legions and their special promotions is very good. You might want to double-check the text that appears when mousing-over their promotions. A number of them are poorly written and hard to understand. Some of the tech names seemed pretty clumsy. Please don't take this the wrong way--IIRC these kinds of problems were far more common in the last version I played, so it looks like a definite effort was made in that area. Thanks!
3. Although the AI turn cycle moves along very nicely now, the game does bog down quite a bit in the long run. Part of this I think is because of the mounting slugfest trying to demolish one stack of doom after the next. There ought to be some way of limiting the number of units on the board, or the sizes of the stacks (good luck here!) This is nuts.
4. I had a problem with the heavy crossbowmen, in that they were nearly impossible destroy. Again, this required massive numbers of siege weapons sacrificed in order to kill off a few units. I didn't like that. It slows the game flow a lot. Have you considered using ranged bombardment rather than forcing the player to actually hurl the siege machines at cities in suicide attacks? This might help in that the player wouldn't have to constantly rebuild mountains of siege machines all the time.
5. Just a thought here--why not give light cavalry a base move of 3, and heavy cavalry and armored chariots a base move of 2? It would make the light cavalry more useful without busting the game balance.
6. It might also be a good idea to allow sacrificing patriarchs/holy men/missionaries to reduce the length of unrest in conquered cities. This would accelerate the game flow a bit. (???)
All in all, great mod, guys! Thanks for the new version.
Massive kudos here!
I really liked a lot of the game features and the consistent design theme. Here are a few issues I have (not everyone will agree with me -- that's okay, I'm just posting my two-cents' worth. I'm not looking for an argument.)
1. There ought to be an optional version for non-Chinese-speaking gamers. In particular, it would translate the names of the leaders/factions into English. I normally would not support this approach, because it is cool to have the original Chinese names, BUT the learning curve is a real problem with this many Civs in play at the beginning of the game. To a non-Chinese speaker, the names are horrendously confusing.
2. The system of the war leaders/legions and their special promotions is very good. You might want to double-check the text that appears when mousing-over their promotions. A number of them are poorly written and hard to understand. Some of the tech names seemed pretty clumsy. Please don't take this the wrong way--IIRC these kinds of problems were far more common in the last version I played, so it looks like a definite effort was made in that area. Thanks!
3. Although the AI turn cycle moves along very nicely now, the game does bog down quite a bit in the long run. Part of this I think is because of the mounting slugfest trying to demolish one stack of doom after the next. There ought to be some way of limiting the number of units on the board, or the sizes of the stacks (good luck here!) This is nuts.
4. I had a problem with the heavy crossbowmen, in that they were nearly impossible destroy. Again, this required massive numbers of siege weapons sacrificed in order to kill off a few units. I didn't like that. It slows the game flow a lot. Have you considered using ranged bombardment rather than forcing the player to actually hurl the siege machines at cities in suicide attacks? This might help in that the player wouldn't have to constantly rebuild mountains of siege machines all the time.
5. Just a thought here--why not give light cavalry a base move of 3, and heavy cavalry and armored chariots a base move of 2? It would make the light cavalry more useful without busting the game balance.
6. It might also be a good idea to allow sacrificing patriarchs/holy men/missionaries to reduce the length of unrest in conquered cities. This would accelerate the game flow a bit. (???)
All in all, great mod, guys! Thanks for the new version.
Quetz
The Tallest Lilliputian
The legion system is bloody brilliant.
UNIT 666
One of Many
The mod is bloody brilliant.
I had played this mod about a year ago, and eventually removed it because the AI's turn sequence was too darn slow on my (low end) computer. I'm delighted to see this has been fixed in a great way! At least the turns are completed in a reasonably timely manner, which makes the game so much more enjoyable.
Massive kudos here!
THANKS!
Good point, other player has suggested this not long ago, just haven't got a hand to do something yet. I think in scoreboard put leaderhead button right beside leader name would help.
Please give a hint as to which promotion texts are confusing since I can't tell which are, because it's me who wrote them.
In the next development cycle I'll consider these carefully, see what's the best way. Playtesting will answer lots of question.
This is a cool idea, I suggest try to mod it in XML, set its moves to 3 and try a game to see how it works out.
May be reduce the general length of unrest in a good move.
BRILLIANT!
darkedone02
The Suggestor
i don't know if you fixed this bug or not, but sometimes my culture build sometimes completes when it not suppose to. can you fix this minor bug?
What do you mean by 'culture build sometimes completes when it not suppose to'?
darkedone02
The Suggestor
you know that after you research the "state monoply" in your game, that you can build wealth, as 50% of your
turns to 
, well that culture build that turns 50% to 
continues to complete sometimes when it not suppose to.
Ambreville
Deity
Please give a hint as to which promotion texts are confusing since I can't tell which are, because it's me who wrote them.
Okay, I'll see what I can do.
Five turns per missionary sounds good.
Yeah!
Another issue.
When different legions are stacked together, it's hard to tell which unit goes with which hero. I'm not sure how to make that more practical. Color-coding the little symbols on the upper left of the unit icons? Sounds like tough work.
Is there any plan to give the spy an ability to assassinate heroes? I would make it hard in general, except inside cities. This could tie into the espionage mechanics. Getting caught in the act should cause a massive diplo penalty.
The comments I made in my earlier post concerned the scenario with the map of China. I reran the game with a standard-sized random map, and it was much easier, obviously.
I agree with you this need work. The practical way in my opinion would be put 'number' on the legion unit's portrait.
No, there's no plan to add this feature in recent future. But it's a really cool idea!
Thanks. Have you updated to patch C? If you did, please attach a save right before the CTD occurs.
Ambreville
Deity
One more thing.
When I upgrade a hero's level, say for example his melee level, it does not always allow an extra melee unit to join the hero's legion. Is this not the way it's supposed to work?
When I upgrade a hero's level, say for example his melee level, it does not always allow an extra melee unit to join the hero's legion. Is this not the way it's supposed to work?
It should always allow another legion member to join... however, due to some slight bug, it may be impossible until the next turn or until the core troop has healed completely. If that is the case though, you'll notice a few other things such as not being able to change core troop ect.
It occasionally happens to me, but if nothing get's better after a few turns, but disband the legion and reform it.
Ambreville
Deity
That sounds right. This problem usually gets lost in the confusion of multiple legions and their leaders stacked together. Once in a while, I stop and go down the entire list of heroes, painstakingly verifying if some have "mysteriously" gained an extra slot in their legions. Your explanation clarifies why this is happening. If the new slot doesn't work immediately, I usually forget that I once added the promotion, since I get hopelessly mixed up with the heroes' names!
If the extra bit of detail can be added, such as numbering the legions (I suppose chronologically) and then sorting the unit icons accordingly (and not in order of attack strength), it would greatly help keeping track of things.
Another bit of weirdness on this issue happened to me when allocating units to a legion. Depending on the unit type, the total number of units allowable in the legion varies. For example, if I select an archer, only one slot is available, total (no other choices). If I remove the archer and select a melee unit instead, it then appears I can select one more of the latter. So I can have either one archer OR two melee units. Hmmm. That didn't look right.
davidlallen
Deity
Well, that is due to the hero's ratings. If your hero has a C rating in melee but a D rating in archery, this is exactly the right behavior. If he has A in both, then you could have either four archers or four meleee. It is difficult to see what the ratings are in the current hover help, but you can see it in the hero screen. Shift-F7, then hover the mouse over all the icons till you find the right name.
Ambreville
Deity
@ StMartin
I went ahead and wrote down some suggestions on how to translate promotions (for the tooltip help). Hope this helps.
Those of you who don't want to ruin their pleasure of discovering the mod during play, don't go further.
I went ahead and wrote down some suggestions on how to translate promotions (for the tooltip help). Hope this helps.
Those of you who don't want to ruin their pleasure of discovering the mod during play, don't go further.
Spoiler :
I 'deliberately' added those constraints... Well if you think they are bugs then they may be annoying, so I should double check them.
That sounds right. This problem usually gets lost in the confusion of multiple legions and their leaders stacked together. Once in a while, I stop and go down the entire list of heroes, painstakingly verifying if some have "mysteriously" gained an extra slot in their legions. Your explanation clarifies why this is happening. If the new slot doesn't work immediately, I usually forget that I once added the promotion, since I get hopelessly mixed up with the heroes' names!
If the extra bit of detail can be added, such as numbering the legions (I suppose chronologically) and then sorting the unit icons accordingly (and not in order of attack strength), it would greatly help keeping track of things.
I have already done some interface modifications, including adding leaderhead button in scoreboard, add hero portrait button in individual unit hover info, and I plan to add numbering to plot list's legion unit button, as well as group units in plot list according to legions.
Awesome! I will open a new thread in the development forum so we can discuss this in more detail.
The really crazy names are funny, but I don't really think the current promotions names need to be changed. Most of them tend to convey what the promotion does effectively, and to the point. I also see you're looking in the xml file, where all the promotion names are diffent than in play, so that might clear up some confusion.
I think your tooltip changes are very good though, they all seem to remove any awkwardness without over-lengthening the whole thing!
@ stmartin, the injured legion contraits work very well... the only thing that can even be considered near a bug is the inability to add another legion member to an injured legion.
I think your tooltip changes are very good though, they all seem to remove any awkwardness without over-lengthening the whole thing!
@ stmartin, the injured legion contraits work very well... the only thing that can even be considered near a bug is the inability to add another legion member to an injured legion.
Ambreville
Deity
@StMartin
I went back and checked the actual promo names appearing in the Civilopedia. They are different of course (and somewhat better and the rather terse XML tags). In scrolling through however, I couldn't help but have the feeling these names lacked a je ne sais quoi of dramatic flair! This explains why I was suggesting different titles that were, in my humble opinion, more comical and colorful. It's just a matter of personal preference--no harm done here, or meant.
By the way, I couldn't locate the XML file that controls the actual names of the all these promotions. Which one is it please?
I stumbled through the descriptions of the Beliefs. Pardon me if I am misunderstanding that system, but it looked like they didn't do anything different. In other words, they all provide the same Prestige Bonus--no special effect that is unique for picking one Official State Belief vs. another. Was there one I missed?
@ Kenjister
Back to Commander Promotions. I understand the way commander levels work isn't a bug after all. Thanks for the explanation. This remains however somewhat confusing and annoying. It seems to me that if I have a hero with the ability to command three melee units, as an example, I would then never knowingly add an archer level, because then that Legion can either have three melee units OR one single archer! Looks like a waste of a promotion, I think. Why is there such a limitation? It seems to me that a Legion shouldn't necessarily be limited to a single type of unit--why not allow a Legion that has one archer, one melee, and one cavalry? Arguably, commanders are usually better at mastering the tactics of one single type of troop. If this is the reasoning behind the limitation, in that case I think you may need an extra promotion that allows a hero to command different types of units within the same Legion. Make sense?
The other solution might be otherwise to determine what sort of commander this is when he initially joins the game. So for example, if you decide Hero X is a Sea Lord, then all other categories are eliminated (they just aren't offered when the Hero gains a new promotion). With this approach, you'd have to allow the hero the potential of commanding up to four units in his chosen branch. In my opinion, this would be simpler (less micromanagement and confusion).
