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Bug Reports and Discussion

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by Tholal, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. Tholal

    Tholal Emperor

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  2. Bad Player

    Bad Player Deity

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    I'm playing one city challenge, always war, raging barbarians, version maybe 2.7beta4 patch?

    Game crashes when the Infernals spawn (I do see some infernal units), I tried changing the tech to something else and the game doesn't crash. It also seems to spawn the infernals and declare war on me (NB always war is on) but then the Ljosalfar attack my unit then it crashes. NB if I don't research infernal pact and spawn the infernals, the Ljosalfar still attack my unit but the game continues.

    EDIT: Not crash - hangs but I waited for ages and nothing happened.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  3. Strigvir

    Strigvir Emperor

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    You are right, it does work, it's just the turn was taking much longer than normal to process. I mistook it for a similar hang-up I had in one of the beta versions (that time I've stared at the screen for good 5 minutes before killing the game).
     
  4. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    Is there a way to play the scenarios with MNAI? I think that Tholal mentioned in another thread that you could edit some file(s) to get them to work, but I wasn't quite able to acquire all of the arcane knowledge necessary to perform such a feat. Is it hard to do for someone with no modding experience?

    And having played unmodded FFH2 recently... the BLARING LOUD music that plays upon starting a new game seems to be something that FfH2media.exe adds to an originally silent intro? Who thought that that was a good idea?

    Oh, for... Well, at least in this case it doesn't say "all units", so it's actually technically not incorrect this time.

    My first time playing FFH2, I gave a Ljosalfar adept Air I, naively expecting the spell Fair Winds to, well, do what the Civilopedia says it does. The outright inaccuracies and frequent omissions in the Civilopedia definitely contributed to the game's learning curve. The version included in MNAI, along with BUG, is one of the most noticeable improvements to me (The civs' unique buildings are acknowledged as such!) but it's still far from perfect. That darned Fair Winds description is still a filthy lie, for instance... :p

    Are there general rules as to how a unit can gain an effect not listed as available to units of its category? There doesn't really seem to be any obvious rhyme or reason to it. And what even determines whether something gets listed under "Promotions" or "Effects"? "Promotions" seems to be for the promotions that units can gain by leveling up, but then shouldn't Medic II and Medic III be under "Effects"? (And, as such, shouldn't they have nothing listed under "Requires", as is the general case for effects?)

    The egregious AI deficiency that I remember from my earliest Fall From Heaven 2 games was civs leaving Orthus's Axe lying around in their territory as a Barbarian unit for me to collect as soon as I opened borders with them and sent a unit over. That and leaving tribal villages sitting right outside their borders without ever sending a scout over.

    Speaking of things that Open Borders shouldn't allow you to do... Does it still let you explore lairs and dungeons in the other civ's territory? Because it really seems like it shouldn't, any more than it should allow you to pillage their improvements. At the very least, Right of Passage agreements shouldn't allow for that; the whole advantage of them over Open Borders is supposed to be that the other party can't use their ability to move through your land to run around trashing stuff and starting trouble, right?

    I'm pretty sure that I saw it on flood plains far from anyone's territory in one game. In another, Yggdrasil was mislabeled "Seven Pines" with the actual Seven Pines seemingly nowhere on the map with All Unique Features turned on... Maybe the game tried to place both on the same tile? These may have both been the product of map regeneration, though, which I think has had issues for a while.

    Let me check... Okay, NOPE, started up several new games as the Elohim, and Letum Frigus seems to show up on incorrect terrain as often as not. Version is 2.7 Beta5. Save attached. Try startin' up some Elohim games yourself and see. Maybe check the other features to see if they're screwy too. If you can't duplicate this error in about a dozen tries in the current version, then it's probably something you fixed.

    Also... is there a way to get unique feature labels to appear OVER the blackness of unrevealed tiles, but also to not appear at all if the tile the feature is on is unrevealed? I think we can agree that that would be better.
     

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  5. Tholal

    Tholal Emperor

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    Sorry. I will only be investigating savegames from version 2.7 onwards. It's just not worth the time involved to try and chase down an issue with an older saved game that is incompatible with the current release.


    If you navigate to the scenario directory (under XML in the FFH Assets folder), and double-click on the scenario file, the game will load it up without issue. Not sure why scenarios dont work if you load them from the in-game menu. I'll write up an issue to track this.


    I see now. What you are complaining about is a generic spell description line that is used for any spell that adds promotions. I'll see about making that text clearer.

    'Effects' are just promotions and they should always be gated by allowable unit type. We don't list out all the possible effects under the units in the 'pedia because it would be a huge, ugly mess.

    Promotions classified as 'effects' (note: this naming is just for 'pedia organization), are ones with minLevel set to -1. This means that they cannot be selected as a result of a unit leveling up and include things such as special abilities, spell effects, and items.

    Medic I is listed as an 'effect' because it is only assigned as part of unit creation (it is never voluntarily chosen). Medic II, however, is listed under regular promotions because it can be selected on level-up (for units that already have Medic I).


    Neither of those issues should be occurring. Sometimes the AI wont pick up items immediately, but they will definitely check out all the villages they see.


    This has not been changed from the vanilla FFH. I think some of the mod-mods of MNAI might make this change.


    Still unable to replicate. I dont recall making any recent changes to this part of the code. What maps/mapscripts are you using?

    I thought it worked that way already?
     
  6. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    Understandable. I think I'll wait until you fix the deal-cancelling bug until I update though. Who knows, maybe Norton will somehow be okay with the new installer and I won't have to find a workaround.

    Is that something you fixed in the most recent release? I had to do that in unmodded FFH2 to get some scenarios to work -- as you note, starting them up in-game has problems -- but in MNAI it still just coughed up an error message and then froze if I clicked through. If you've at least restored that method of indirect access, that's good to hear!

    As is so often the case, the manual is more honest here. The manual, though incomplete and somewhat outdated, seems to be well above average at telling it like it is, so checking 'pedia entries against it isn't a bad idea. Some parts of it are quite nicely organized, too. Malfunctional links seem to be a common feature of the Civilopedia and the manual, sadly.

    Indeed, my advice to anyone who wants to improve the 'pedia would be

    1. Check out the manual linked above.
    2. Copy all of its good ideas.
    3. Fix links to go where they should.

    Well, several have no unit type listed under "Available To". Aeron's Chosen, Boarding, Bronze Weapons...

    Are all promotions (under "Effects" AND under "Promotions") restricted to the types of units listed IF there IS a list, UNLESS always granted to the specific type of unit at creation (e.g. Vampires starting with Body I and Death I)?

    No, wait, Raiders leaders are described as granting Commando to Arcane units, so leader traits must be another exception, unless either the Raiders or the Commando entry is wrong.

    See, this is the sort of rule of thumb I was looking for. Like, how do I even interpret this stuff, y'know? Is it like the babbling of the Overlords, and trying to understand will only drive me mad?

    How do you decide which ones get listed?

    ... No, it can't. An level 1 Acolyte with 2 XP, for example, cannot just promote to Medic II. Gaining access to units that have Medic II *at all*, not just for free, is part of the benefit of the Priesthood technology. Similarly, a non-high priest unit can't just promote to Medic III and thus become able to cast the spell Heal. It would be a pretty big change to the game if they could. I'm pretty sure only the Grigori get unlimited units with Medic III.

    Good to hear. I was just reminiscing there, mostly.

    Well, it doesn't seem in the spirit of Right of Passage agreements to me. I'd prefer to detach it from Open Borders, too, really; it does strike me as fairly analogous to pillaging in terms of costs and benefits, although obviously the details differ considerably. But in the meantime, maybe I should just use this as motivation to get over my lair exploration procrastination. Probably make the early game more interesting.

    Usually Erebus, but for the testing I just did... Fractal, maybe? I just clicked through at the beginning to get several starts, only selecting the Elohim civ and the All Unique Features option.

    I'm using Blue Marble for Fall From Heaven 2, which is not without issues. (It crashes the game when I turn the tile grid on.)

    Um, no. Maybe I'm not explaining this well enough? Try starting up another game as the Elohim, then clicking on Globe View. You can't see the text of the labels zoomed all the way out like that, right? The blackness of the surrounding tiles is in the way. They don't work like the labels you place yourself with Alt+S. They also block you from placing labels of your own. Maybe they could just be changed into labels of that sort? Then you could change them, e.g renaming "Guardian of Pristin Pass" to "former gargoyle lair" as a reminder that it was activated already.

    You can read them if you zoom in enough. You can also see part of a label on an unrevealed tile to the left or the right of a revealed tile, much like how you can see the edges of tiles you don't yet have visibility on.

    This is mostly an annoyance with the Elohim, since I can't see all of my free Unique Feature location info at a glance. Gotta zoom in and out repeatedly to see what's what.
     
  7. jackal1234

    jackal1234 Chieftain

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    not a bad idea to fix the pedia, but since the main focus is fixing the ai and squash game altering bugs, personally i'd say he's been doing great with limited time and vote for keep going in the same direction
     
  8. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    Yeah, that was kind of why I said "my advice to anyone who wants to improve the 'pedia". I'm not saying that Tholal should do it personally. But maybe someone working on that is reading this. Or maybe Tholal passes those sorts of requests along to other people whose work is incorporated in MNAI?

    I could try to figure out a better place to make those suggestions, but honestly I don't wanna bother. I'm generally pretty lazy. If I were really not lazy, I'd learn how to edit the Civilopedia myself and fix a bunch of stuff. But that would be a lot of work!

    Just got the new patch. The Unique Features seem to reliably appear on the correct terrain again. Although the Mirror of Heaven appeared on a PEAK tile, of all things, upon regenerating the map. So map regeneration is screwy, but what else is new? It might be best to just disable it if it's not possible to have it just start a new game with the same settings (which is how it should work in the first place but apparently doesn't).

    The scenarios do indeed appear to work again with the same workaround as unmodded FFH2. Goody!

    EDIT: Spoke too soon. Some of them (e.g The Fall of Cuantine and The Momus) work, but others (e.g. Against the Wall and Grand Menagerie) don't (even by clicking on the file). Hopefully the fix is the same for all of them and it's just a matter of applying it to all of the files...
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  9. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    Okay, this is something I noticed a while ago, and I probably should have mentioned it sooner... Work boats shouldn't be considered military production, should they? They're not military units. Like, not even a little; no more than workers are.

    It's starting to annoy me playing as the Grigori, where it's kind of a non-trivial early game impediment if I settle by seafood. But I think I first noticed it in a game where I saw a city stop growing while producing a work boat under Conquest. Food was being converted into production, you see. But, hey, at least that work boat got 2 XP!

    Not all that major an issue, but kiiiind of ridiculous.
     
  10. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    Winterborn units can still be damaged by blizzards when they are first built.

    With Show Enemy Moves and Show Friendly Moves both checked, Barbarian moves are still only shown, uh, sometimes? I don't even know what influences that, but I do know that my units wind up getting killed by Giant Spiders, Lizardmen, etc. in battles that I don't get to see unless I yank the camera over.


    Temples aren't granting a bonus happiness under the Religion civic.

    The game won't give me combat odds against Hidden Nationality animals as the Clan of Embers; presumably Hidden Nationality is interacting poorly with the Barbarian trait.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  11. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    The issue here is that units are created and placed on a tile first first, before any promotions are applied to them.

    In my modmod I get around this issue by changing the code to thus:

    Code:
    def onMoveBlizzard(pCaster, pPlot):
        bDamage = True
        iWinterborn = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_WINTERBORN')
        if pCaster.getRace() == iWinterborn:
            bDamage = False
        elif pCaster.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_WHITE_HAND'):
            if gc.getPlayer(pCaster.getOwner()).getStateReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_WHITE_HAND'):
                bDamage = False
        elif pCaster.getRace() == -1:
            if gc.getUnitInfo(pCaster.getUnitType()).getFreePromotions(iWinterborn):
                bDamage = False
            elif pCaster.isAlive():
                if not pCaster.isAnimal():
                    if gc.getCivilizationInfo(pCaster.getCivilizationType()).getDefaultRace() == iWinterborn:
                        if not isWorldUnitClass(pCaster.getUnitClassType()):
                            if pCaster.getDomainType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('DOMAIN_LAND'):
                                bDamage = False
        if bDamage:
            pCaster.doDamageNoCaster(10, 50, gc.getInfoTypeForString('DAMAGE_COLD'), False)
     
  12. Tholal

    Tholal Emperor

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    I am more than happy to accept Pull Requests from others - https://bitbucket.org/Tholal/more-naval-ai
    I also have no problem updating the text, but I don't spend time searching out issues in the 'pedia. Feel free to open issues on the repository when you do find things that need updating.

    It's all just text in an XML file.

    I have a ticket for this issue, though the last comment said I was unable to replicate - https://bitbucket.org/Tholal/more-naval-ai/issues/58/regenerate-map-and-ffh-specific-map-items


    They seem to be working for me (launching them outside of the game). I've started trying to figure out what's going on with the in-game scenario selection but the root cause is eluding me (see my thread on the subject)

    Fair enough. I can make that change.

    I think this is probably a race condition. The UI can't switch the view fast enough to keep up with all of the unit movement.

    Works for me. Savegame?

    Known issue - https://bitbucket.org/Tholal/more-naval-ai/issues/23/barbarianally-doesnt-get-display-odds-on


    Thanks for the code MC. I'll take a look.
     
  13. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    It's the initial autosave that's missing the Unique Feature labels, I've found.

    Ooh, neat!

    Huh. I'd have expected those options to work by waiting until the view changes to move the units. Or by recording the movements and then playing them back. Is this just something that BtS implements weirdly poorly?

    Attached. Save is from The Momus, but I used Worldbuilder to check that the issue isn't just with the scenario. As a bonus, I have selected a save in which something else weird is going on. Cevedes doesn't quite seem to fully appreciate that Furia has taken it from me!

    I later found that Cevedes and Dis were unable to build boats, including Work Boats, although they could produce Lighthouses and Sea Havens. Are some inland seas considered "too small" for ships, even though they're saltwater and allow for coastal buildings? Not being able to build Work Boats normally wouldn't be an issue with no resources for them to be used on, but for the Lanun it means that they can't build Pirate Coves there. But then, I suppose pirates keep to the ocean, mostly, so I guess that makes sense. It seems like this could be an issue on some land-heavy maps that don't have oceans, but only inland seas.

    I also noticed that declarations of war don't seem to remove civs from each others' territory, but I guess that that's an intended effect of that scenario's "always Open Borders" dealy? Interesting that everyone is effectively following Council of Esus in that regard, just like everyone effectively has infinite Chaos mana for free mutation purposes. (Units even mutate again when they're upgraded, for extra fun.)

    Another thing I noticed in that game was that one of Beeri Bawl's Dwarven Slingers had Shield of Faith and Withered, which seems like an indication that the AI still has a thing or two to learn about using spellcasters properly. If there's a Stonewarden to cast Shield of Faith, there's a Stonewarden to cast Cure Disease! C'mon, now, Beeri. You're supposed to be a magic-capable dwarf.

    Incidentally, is there a way to tell what promotions another civ's unit has besides squinting at tiny icons and then trying to find matching icons in the Civilopedia? It took me a while to figure out that Stoneskin was making an enemy unit so resistant to Tsunamis because the icon was blurred beyond recognition. It was only when I saw the same blur listed for one of my own units under the Military Advisor that I was able to investigate and figure out what the deal was.

    Is there a way to check which version I have? Is there a list of steps to follow to make sure it's installed properly?

    Ideally, you could just get odds against units you're at peace with. One might decide whether to declare war based on that calculation, after all, and not having to do all of the math yourself is just as much of a convenience then. (Also, being able to get defensive odds for if the enemy unit attacks yours would be great.)

    Kinda silly for that part of the game to pretend that you don't have the option to attack just because you're at peace right now, when moving into a peaceful unit's tile triggers a silly "Does this mean WAR?" popup. (And moving next to another civ's borders causes another silly popup asking if I want to declare war to come up repeatedly, requiring me to repeatedly say that I don't... because I'm supposedly moving into the other civ's territory... even if there's water or mountains blocking me from doing so, even if I wanted to... Yeesh, BtS.)
     

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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  14. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    I made a fresh copy of my old Fall From Heaven 2 folder and ran the 2.7 installer. Seems to have fixed my problem with the scenarios.

    The installer said "Version 2.7 patch requires More Naval AI to have been previously installed to work correctly." It seems to be fine, though. So did my previous installation somehow prepare something for the 2.7 patch even though I dumped the folder for a new copy, or was the installer just B.S.ing me for some reason by saying that? (B.S.ing the player every once in a while does seem to be a FFH and more general Civ 4 "thing", after all.) Maybe it should say that Fall From Heaven 2 needs to have been previously installed?

    Speaking of B.S., the Religion civic is working correctly; mousing over temples just gave some very misleading info. I guess I should have checked things even more carefully. Silly me, thinking that the three happy faces listed represented three different effects, meaning that temples give 1 happiness on their own.
     
  15. Tholal

    Tholal Emperor

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    Interesting.

    Unable to load your save. Is it from a previous version?

    I suspect that has something to do with the map. As long as the city is flagged as Coastal and is adjacent to water, you should be able to build ships.

    Scenarios often have weird setups and rules.

    That’s definitely an understatement! Spell casting is one of the more difficult AI adjustments IMO. I started poking around into this particular issue and it will take a bit of work to improve the AI choosing which add promotion/remove promotion spells to cast.

    Mouseover the civ flag in the upper left corner.

    Not really.

    Not sure I understand this situation. I have never seen a declare war popup result from moving in unoccupied friendly or neutral territory.

    That is correct. I think the misleading message comes from the installer because I am flagging MNAI install as a patch (which it is since it requires FFH to be already installed). I’ll see if the text can be easily corrected so that the message is less confusing.

    ??
     
  16. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    I don't think so, unless I installed the wrong patch by mistake at first... Anyway, it loads under v2.7 for me, unless "v2.7" is somehow coming up when I mouse over the flag without that being the version I'm running. Maybe try making a fresh copy of the FFH2 folder and installing over that? That's what I did, and it totally fixed some stuff!

    If that doesn't work... ugh, maybe we have different BtS patches? I thought that I have the last one, but I'm honestly not sure any more. I'm pretty sure that my copy of the game didn't include it, anyway, despite ostensibly being the "final release".

    Ah, more scenario oddness? Yeah, that would make sense.

    Given that we're talking about a whole extra system that Civ 4 wasn't designed to support, I suppose that that's only to be expected.

    ... See screenshot with annotation. I thought that that was all just the same info as in the Civilopedia entry, and given that everything except for that one misleading extra happy face at the top is exactly the same, can you really blame me for getting confused? It's nice to have BUG's "Actual:" calculations, but I didn't expect one actual effect to arbitrarily show up as though it were just an unconditional effect of the building, and then again as a conditional effect under the Religion civic.

    The thing is, I should know by now to double-check multiple sources to see whether they even agree with each other before concluding that something is working incorrectly. But I honestly thought that I had! But I guess that I must have only really checked the mouse-over info against the description of the Religion civic without very carefully comparing the mouse-over info to the Temple's Civilopedia entry to see whether they sneakily snuck in just one little thing in order to mess with me.

    *Sigh* .The mean game tricked me, Tholal. :p
     

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  17. Devils_Advocate

    Devils_Advocate Chieftain

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    Has anyone else noticed that Minister Koun takes the Infernal colors when he spawns, causing the Infernals to take the Mercurian colors and leaving the Mercurians with something close to the Elohim's colors? At least I think that's how I've seen it go, from memory, but it presumably depends on the order that they show up in, which is the issue. It might even be an issue if just the Mercurians are summoned before the Infernals, for all I know.

    Anyway, Koun needs a color scheme of his own. Maybe dark olive? Or a proper violet, since no one has that yet.
     
  18. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I'm surprised no one noticed it before now, but I just discovered that the game crashes when I select a worker before founding my first city.

    I first noticed this in my modmod, but just confirmed that it also occurs in base MNAI v2.71 with the debug DLL (but not the normal DLL).
     
    Imp. Knoedel likes this.
  19. Powerfinder

    Powerfinder Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if these are bugs, but:
    1. Industrious leaders build magical towers at 200% speed. +50% for national wonder and +50% for team wonder.
    2. "Open markets" resolution opens all trade routes, not only trade routes to overcouncil civilizations. All you need is a trade connection.
    3. With "revolutions" option on. Each rebel can cast a world spell. Specifically saw this with a "march of trees" and "wild hunt". It can be a problem with powerful spells like "Stasis".
    Version 2.71
     
  20. Tholal

    Tholal Emperor

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    Probably never noticed because players dont start with workers as part of base FFH. Also, it looks like this was some fallout from a recent change to prevent chopping production from being sent to settlements. Bug has been fixed and will be included in next release.

    1. Looks like a bug. It's due to the fact that Industrious leaders get bonuses for National Wonders and Team Wonders. Will be fixed for next release
    2. I'll look into it
    3. No, they cannot. Rebels are specifically barred from casting World Spells. If a civ created due to a rebellion has it's rebel status turned off (see RevEvents.py, setIsRebel( False ) for examples of how this can happen), then the civ can cast it's world spell. Same as if you started a game with multiple players from the same civ.
     

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