DJMGator13
Still breathing
Sounds good.
Bugs3 - The Sid Virgin Sacrifice
- Thread starter Sir Bugsy
- Start date
grs said:
No, the MA was run out.. looking back it seems like I played 11 turns (played turn 7 twice
) sorry about that.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Well played team. The good Doctor is up. Gator is on deck.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Sounds great!
Domination or Space?
Got it.
Domination or Space?
Got it.
grs
nameless one
I did not do a space victory for a long time ... sounds tempting ... but lets wrap it up first before deciding.
Persia was getting strong during my turns btw.. they have kicked everyone off their home island, and its pretty much fully railroaded.
However they have weak culture, and since fascist, they had still not managed to get cultural expansions in the old dutch towns in northern parts.
This was btw first time I have seen AIs starve/poprush down towns with foreign citizens.. Amsterdam dropped from size 12 to size 2 in the turns from it was captured (it has improved tiles to stay at size 5 without culture expansion, was was not all due to lack of food)
However they have weak culture, and since fascist, they had still not managed to get cultural expansions in the old dutch towns in northern parts.
This was btw first time I have seen AIs starve/poprush down towns with foreign citizens.. Amsterdam dropped from size 12 to size 2 in the turns from it was captured (it has improved tiles to stay at size 5 without culture expansion, was was not all due to lack of food)
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I suppose we'll just follow our nose on this one. We are SID virgins after all.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Sorry, I don't feel like I could pay the needed attention for this game today after finishing CotM7 for about 7 hours 
... Civ-overdose.
I can play this tomorrow, but if someone who's weekend is some more hours wants to jump in now, please feel free to do so.
... Civ-overdose.I can play this tomorrow, but if someone who's weekend is some more hours wants to jump in now, please feel free to do so.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
The pace of this game has been restrained. Play it out Doc.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
First, the save
France, 1380AD
Some useless facts:
- More than 50% of our total culture comes from Orleans; in fact, Orleans is top city #2 (behind Persepolis)
- We are power leader by a wider margin
- We are ahead of Persia in score by 50%
Not bad for virgins
Switch the former Aztec core to Temples; those cities all have Aquaducts, were better off building Settlers from cities without.
Go through all cities and hire a bunch of Civil Engineers.
Maybe this is completely
, but since were building Factories everywhere for the next time, I dont see us going to war against Portugal, so I trade for Cooperation with SciMeth+Iron+Saltpatre+WM+83gpt. Get Nationalism from Dutch for RP+SciMeth+Saltpetre+Dyes+Incense+WM.
The reason is I wanted to see if Espionage is around (it is not!), and dont want to trade AT before Hoovers is safe (that is, 4 turns to go).
Enter.
IBT:
Our units in Roman territory get the boot.
ToE done; pick Espionage and Fascism
.
Orleans ToE-> Stock Exchange.
Turn 1: 1385AD
Hoover due in 12 in Paris.
Ouch, 126gpt unit support, need to work on this. Start Espionage with some Scientists; dont know if we want to increase our research capacity.
Turn 2: 1390AD
Dutch show up with Sanitation; get it for Cooperation.
Turn 3: 1395AD
Workers work.
IBT:
Caesar offers MPP+RoP; decline.
Turn 4: 1400AD
Zzzz..
IBT:
Dutch offer MPP+RoP, no.
Orleans Stock Exchange->Hospital
Turn 5: 1405AD
Found New Rouen.
IBT:
:Rotfl:
Egypt declares on Rome Cleo really begs for Marines.
Turn 6: 1410AD
Persia and Rome have Espionage.
Turn 7: 1415AD
Rome does have Infantry now
Turn 8: 1420AD
Ok, with 5 turns left for Hoovers I trade AT around; even if Persia demands Electronics, they should not be able to beat us. If they do, you know whom to blame.
Get Communism, Refining and small change from Persia. We have Oil under Grenoble [dance].
Get Espionage, 1680gp and a Worker from Rome.
Neither Persia nor Rome have any Oil. Dutch have several.
Get Ironclads and small change from Portugal.
Demo and some gold from Dutch. Simply dont want the AI to trade it around, so I sell it below Market price.
No AI has any Tech of interest.
Upgrade some Cannons on the Roman island, and spent a few coins to finish basic builds there.
IBT:
Our people want to build the Intelligence Agency. Maybe we should
.
Orleans Hospital->Granary
Turn 9: 1425AD
Nothing special.
(Played only 9 since Gyathaar played 11)
NOTES:
*All tiles around the Roman/Aztec border and most tiles on the ex-Portuguese island have been chopped.
*IA is crucial; in Orleans after the Granary.
*Try to grow any town with a Duct to city-size, unit support hurts.
*Dont trade Refining to the Dutch, they have several sources.
*New Chartres has a pretty high flip risk, station no Armies there.
IMHO we should prolly go against Rome again asap, they have 2 Luxes and oodles of useful wonders (Magellans, Sistine, Smiths). Rome is still at war with Portugal, and since theyre Fascist, the borders of the former Portuguese cities cannot expand; that should help us. And, once New Rouens borders expand, well have Rome in Artillery range.
Oh, and we are now ahead of Portugal in score. And the Power graph looks nice:
France, 1380AD
Some useless facts:
- More than 50% of our total culture comes from Orleans; in fact, Orleans is top city #2 (behind Persepolis)
- We are power leader by a wider margin
- We are ahead of Persia in score by 50%
Not bad for virgins
Switch the former Aztec core to Temples; those cities all have Aquaducts, were better off building Settlers from cities without.
Go through all cities and hire a bunch of Civil Engineers.
Maybe this is completely
, but since were building Factories everywhere for the next time, I dont see us going to war against Portugal, so I trade for Cooperation with SciMeth+Iron+Saltpatre+WM+83gpt. Get Nationalism from Dutch for RP+SciMeth+Saltpetre+Dyes+Incense+WM.The reason is I wanted to see if Espionage is around (it is not!), and dont want to trade AT before Hoovers is safe (that is, 4 turns to go).
Enter.
IBT:
Our units in Roman territory get the boot.
ToE done; pick Espionage and Fascism
. Orleans ToE-> Stock Exchange.
Turn 1: 1385AD
Hoover due in 12 in Paris.
Ouch, 126gpt unit support, need to work on this. Start Espionage with some Scientists; dont know if we want to increase our research capacity.
Turn 2: 1390AD
Dutch show up with Sanitation; get it for Cooperation.
Turn 3: 1395AD
Workers work.
IBT:
Caesar offers MPP+RoP; decline.
Turn 4: 1400AD
Zzzz..
IBT:
Dutch offer MPP+RoP, no.
Orleans Stock Exchange->Hospital
Turn 5: 1405AD
Found New Rouen.
IBT:
:Rotfl:
Egypt declares on Rome Cleo really begs for Marines.
Turn 6: 1410AD
Persia and Rome have Espionage.
Turn 7: 1415AD
Rome does have Infantry now
Turn 8: 1420AD
Ok, with 5 turns left for Hoovers I trade AT around; even if Persia demands Electronics, they should not be able to beat us. If they do, you know whom to blame.
Get Communism, Refining and small change from Persia. We have Oil under Grenoble [dance].
Get Espionage, 1680gp and a Worker from Rome.
Neither Persia nor Rome have any Oil. Dutch have several.
Get Ironclads and small change from Portugal.
Demo and some gold from Dutch. Simply dont want the AI to trade it around, so I sell it below Market price.
No AI has any Tech of interest.
Upgrade some Cannons on the Roman island, and spent a few coins to finish basic builds there.
IBT:
Our people want to build the Intelligence Agency. Maybe we should
.Orleans Hospital->Granary
Turn 9: 1425AD
Nothing special.
(Played only 9 since Gyathaar played 11)
NOTES:
*All tiles around the Roman/Aztec border and most tiles on the ex-Portuguese island have been chopped.
*IA is crucial; in Orleans after the Granary.
*Try to grow any town with a Duct to city-size, unit support hurts.
*Dont trade Refining to the Dutch, they have several sources.
*New Chartres has a pretty high flip risk, station no Armies there.
IMHO we should prolly go against Rome again asap, they have 2 Luxes and oodles of useful wonders (Magellans, Sistine, Smiths). Rome is still at war with Portugal, and since theyre Fascist, the borders of the former Portuguese cities cannot expand; that should help us. And, once New Rouens borders expand, well have Rome in Artillery range.
Oh, and we are now ahead of Portugal in score. And the Power graph looks nice:
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Not sure that I can get to this before I go out of town for the holiday. If I haven't posted by noon tomorrow, take it as a skip.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Sorry but I ran out of time. Please swap or skip. I'll be back in town Sunday night so I could play then.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I copy down all of Doc's advice and downlown the save. Gator, you can I can swap.
allin1joe
Prince
lurker's comment: Now that you have communism, will you be switching gov't? I haven't looked at your save, so I don't know how badly corruption is hurting your cities. I've always just immediately switched to Communism, especially if I was going to be doing a lot of fighting, just to get all of my cities productive.
Sorry for the question in an SG, but I couldn't resist Great job so far!
Sorry for the question in an SG, but I couldn't resist
Great job so far!
grs
nameless one
In my book communism is something for large empires, something which we do not have and will not become before the game is over, simply because of the map we chose. You have a point in that we are not reasearching ourselves anyways till now and steal our techs, so commie would help. I did not have the save for some turns, but from the time I had it last I would not risk an 6-8 turn anarchy now.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
We're doing pretty well in Republic. We do have a strong core, and the former Portuguese island is not completely corrupt. We have 3 native Luxes, and when we take out the Roman core (which shouldn't be too difficult, there are only 3 cities including Rome itself left, and the recently captured Portuguese core), we will have 2 more.
The main reason why we don't research atm is simply that it is not necessary - we have the Tech lead
. We still have Electronics as monopoly, and the AI is only up Fascism.
Being able to cash (smart)-rush is worth a lot. And, since we have Hoover on our starting landmass, a communal Gov should indeed hurt our overall production. And we're not going to fight any prolonged wars, we can muster a decent Blitz force against Rome (we have nice stacks of Cavs and even a good number of Cannons, with 4000+gp in the Bank to upgrade them all; we only need sufficient Infantry supply).
Conclusion: While Communism is a good Gov in general, here it would be a completely wrong choice.
The main reason why we don't research atm is simply that it is not necessary - we have the Tech lead
. We still have Electronics as monopoly, and the AI is only up Fascism.Being able to cash (smart)-rush is worth a lot. And, since we have Hoover on our starting landmass, a communal Gov should indeed hurt our overall production. And we're not going to fight any prolonged wars, we can muster a decent Blitz force against Rome (we have nice stacks of Cavs and even a good number of Cannons, with 4000+gp in the Bank to upgrade them all; we only need sufficient Infantry supply).
Conclusion: While Communism is a good Gov in general, here it would be a completely wrong choice.
plarq
Crazy forever
Lurker's Comment: DocT's excellent analyzing.My 2 SGs(Emp,Mon) end up with Communist Domination,but on higher levels,aggression and Domination are very slow,and we cannot afford 5t Anarchy in IA unless neccesary(Heavy WW,for example),even we have to revolt,Monarchy always seems to be a better choice.See LK75,Mic5.
Conclusion:We choose Communism if we can win in such situation,and revolt to improve empire building.In difficult situations,Monarchy and Republic seem more useful,we need to cash rush important things in some cities.
Edit:Communism makes stealing techs much better.It has Vet spy,given you build CIA.But it still hurts you if you need to rush something.
Conclusion:We choose Communism if we can win in such situation,and revolt to improve empire building.In difficult situations,Monarchy and Republic seem more useful,we need to cash rush important things in some cities.
Edit:Communism makes stealing techs much better.It has Vet spy,given you build CIA.But it still hurts you if you need to rush something.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I'm back in town.
Thanks for the swap Bugs. If you haven't started yet I could probably grab it tonight. Or I can wait either way is fine.
Thanks for the swap Bugs. If you haven't started yet I could probably grab it tonight. Or I can wait either way is fine.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Pre-flight 1425 AD - I cut and paste Docs passdown. We are doing very well tech-wise. Who cares if everyone else has Fascism or Free Artistry. Hurry a few temples around Rome. Rename Rheims to New Reims.
Early Rome pulls Persia into Its war with Portugal. Start the IA in Orleans. Found New Amiens west of Rome.
Middle Build Hoovers. Our new temples around Rome expand our boarders. Found a very aggressive New Cherbourg trying to tick Caesar off and Rome loses their source of horses. Spend 1200G upgrading cannon.
Late - The IA is built in Orleans. I try to plant a spy on each of the next three turns, but Caesar doesnt bite. Two aggressive cities, New Poitiers and New Toulouse are founded. Since we have twice as much power as Portugal, I ask Henry to move his troops. And he does. I upgrade the last of our cannons.
After Action - Ive been ferrying units from Besancon to New Reims, then from New Avingon to New Amiens. We have one turn left on the peace treaty with Caesar. Next player gets to go to war. We have 24 artillery pieces, six cavalry armies and a lot of other stuff ready to take on Rome. Rome and Persia are up steel. Here is the situation:
Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs3,_1475_AD.SAV
Gator is up
GRS is on deck
Early Rome pulls Persia into Its war with Portugal. Start the IA in Orleans. Found New Amiens west of Rome.
Middle Build Hoovers. Our new temples around Rome expand our boarders. Found a very aggressive New Cherbourg trying to tick Caesar off and Rome loses their source of horses. Spend 1200G upgrading cannon.
Late - The IA is built in Orleans. I try to plant a spy on each of the next three turns, but Caesar doesnt bite. Two aggressive cities, New Poitiers and New Toulouse are founded. Since we have twice as much power as Portugal, I ask Henry to move his troops. And he does. I upgrade the last of our cannons.
After Action - Ive been ferrying units from Besancon to New Reims, then from New Avingon to New Amiens. We have one turn left on the peace treaty with Caesar. Next player gets to go to war. We have 24 artillery pieces, six cavalry armies and a lot of other stuff ready to take on Rome. Rome and Persia are up steel. Here is the situation:
Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs3,_1475_AD.SAV
Gator is up
GRS is on deck
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