Buildings with Trade Routes Tags Discussion

From the suggestions on the first page, I would cap the gold for international port at a higher value for foreign cities than for domestic. Not for gameplay reasons, but just because it's named "international" wich sounds to me as if the main income should come from external sources.

On the other hand, the paved roads sounds more like an interal thing, so I would count domestic cities here.
Hmmmm. A valid point about the international port. I will look into it. I think paved roads could be argued effectively both ways, so I will leave it for now, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Will it be stated in the city screen to how many cities it is connected? Would be very important to have.

Yep.

One more thing about the Great Lighthouse replacing the lighthouse: Does this work?
Can a wonder replace a normal building? If yes, does any other wonder do this?
What happens if the GL becomes obsolete?

Does it work, sure. Can a wonder replace a normal building, sure. I am not aware of any other wonders that do.

Well now, obsoleting is an effect I didn't consider. The lighthouse never goes obsolete. The Great Lighthouse goes obsolete at Corporation. It seems either we would have to make the lighthouse obsolete at Corporation as well, or separate the two from replacing each other again.

I lean towards obsoleting the lighthouse since they are obsolete in RL now.
 
To be perfectly honest, there are other techs that I wouldn't mind cutting out. The Meteorology techs would not be very high on my list of techs to include if I was building a tech tree from scratch, although I think Weather Lore is pretty neat and Weather Control is fantastic for the Transhuman Era.
:(
I wrote those. I'm a Meteorologist, after all.

As far as the rest of this discussion goes, I've been kind of following it without it setting off any alarm bells in my head. I think it's because for me, it boils down to "some numbers go in, commerce comes out". If we can keep the numbers close, or even bring them down somewhat, then whatever approach you want to use should be fine.

Yay. That the rebalancing of a large mechanic is not worrying you is a good sign.

I also do want to say that I did put some large bonuses on late-game buildings to account for several older buildings that they are replacing, as I want to never hurt players for upgrading their buildings. For example, Hypermarket is now the end of a building pyramid. Bazaar and Market are both replaced by Shopping District, so Shopping District inherits both of those buildings' bonuses along with its original bonuses. Grocer upgrades to Supermarket, so Supermarket copies all of Grocer's bonuses in addition to its own. Finally, Hypermarket is a replacement for both Supermarket and Shopping District, so Hypermarket has to inherit all the bonuses from Bazaar-Market-Grocer-Shopping District-Supermarket. That is where the +100% gold came from.

Ok. I kinda suspected that with Hypermarket, which is why I left the 100% gold bonus alone. I did change the Shopping District down to 33%.
 
I lean to obsoleting lighthouses, but if there's another bldg that take up commerce in every water tile I think we should be ok.
 
I lean to obsoleting lighthouses, but if there's another bldg that take up commerce in every water tile I think we should be ok.

What about a tech instead? Like maybe Radar could obsolete lighthouses, and give +1 :commerce: on all water tiles? :)
 
What about a tech instead? Like maybe Radar could obsolete lighthouses, and give +1 :commerce: on all water tiles? :)

Hm. That makes sense if there is no radar station building.
However, if there is radar station building, then obsolete lighthouses and Great Lighthouse few columns later and do what you suggested, give commerce to all water tiles.
How does that work?

EDIT: Ok, I checked. There're radar stations in the game.
 
I think I like the idea of a tech better, but I'll let Vokarya comment.
 
Something more genaral:

I would suggest that all (well, maybe most) trade related buildings should in the end give more yield from external connections compared to internal ones.

Gameplay rationale being, that this would benefit a peaceful gamestyle (which goes well with trade). On the other hand, an all conquering civilsation should not gain additional benefits - it`s allready gotten all the land, but at the expense of good tarde opportunities.


As for the lighthouse, I would just leave things as they are. As I see it, there would be a whole new situation created (a wonder supercedes a building) for very small gain. We could find other wonders that replace buildings too - Edinbourough castle and Hijamitingy Castle vs normal ones, for example, but why? This mod has so much going on, keep unnessecary complications out.

Same for obsoleting the lighthouse while at the same time replacing the effect with a tech - besides a tiny bit of immersion, what would be gained?
 
:(
I wrote those. I'm a Meteorologist, after all.

I'm just concerned about the viability of the Meteorology techs from the perspective of giving them adequate content. I think it's very important that we get techs that reach the "two-trick" threshold, or they become more filler than anything else. This is why I'm pushing content for techs that are below this threshold; not only the one-trick techs, but the 1.5's (which is currently a small chunk of the total, and includes a lot of fundamental techs that I'm not about to axe) and a couple others that I think need some help.

If Meteorology is not optional, then that opens things up. I had the same feelings about tying anything to the Advanced Economy techs.

Ok. I kinda suspected that with Hypermarket, which is why I left the 100% gold bonus alone. I did change the Shopping District down to 33%.

But Bazaar is +15% gold and Market is +20%. I think Shopping District needs to be at least +40% so it doesn't cause a drop-off. That's also why it had other commerce bonuses, because it was replacing Bazaar and Market. I can guess I can wait until we see the final results.
 
I'm just concerned about the viability of the Meteorology techs from the perspective of giving them adequate content. I think it's very important that we get techs that reach the "two-trick" threshold, or they become more filler than anything else. This is why I'm pushing content for techs that are below this threshold; not only the one-trick techs, but the 1.5's (which is currently a small chunk of the total, and includes a lot of fundamental techs that I'm not about to axe) and a couple others that I think need some help.

If there is not enough content, you can drop that tech. I'll just be sad. :p

But Bazaar is +15% gold and Market is +20%. I think Shopping District needs to be at least +40% so it doesn't cause a drop-off. That's also why it had other commerce bonuses, because it was replacing Bazaar and Market. I can guess I can wait until we see the final results.

Ok, as I mentioned, I didn't realize that. IMO, set it at +50%. You can go ahead and fix that for me. ;)
 
What I think we should do with Lighthouse is this: add an extra +1 commerce from water tiles to Seaport and International Port, then let them replace Lighthouse. I think at a certain point, any lighthouse needed would be built as a matter of course when building port facilities. We could do this with only International Port if you think Lighthouses are still viable during the Renaissance and Industrial eras.
 
What I think we should do with Lighthouse is this: add an extra +1 commerce from water tiles to Seaport and International Port, then let them replace Lighthouse. I think at a certain point, any lighthouse needed would be built as a matter of course when building port facilities. We could do this with only International Port if you think Lighthouses are still viable during the Renaissance and Industrial eras.

Seaport and International Port do provide a +1 commerce to water tiles already!

I think it's a good plan.
 
Seaport and International Port do provide a +1 commerce to water tiles already!

I think it's a good plan.

Seaport doesn't, but International Port does (at least not with whatever build I currently have, you may have changed it); that's why I said additional. We give Seaport +1 commerce from water tiles, and increase International Port to +2 commerce/tile.
 
I did change seaport, the change was listed in the building list.

One additional sounds ok to me.
 
Lighthouse changes sound good.

A genera question to the "connectedness". As I understand it, it is just a yes/no check if there is a possible route between two cities.
So, if I keep a small vassal with (just the numbers from the suggested buildings above) 30 backwater cities somewhere in the tundra, all my cities would get full value from their trade related buildings?
 
I think that the game is currently geare dvery much toward expansionism. There is nothing holding you back from expanding (exept if you restrict yourself for some roleplaying reasons or otherwise). But for efficiency, its always better to have more cities. The only mechanic (revolutions aside) holding you back is city upkeep, but thats nowhere enough.
I am not saying that this is a bad thing ( I do love to expand), but it would also be nice to have a feasable alternative. So what if we make the new trade buildings like this:
+ 1 :commerce: per connected domestic city (max 5 :commerce: )
+ 1 :commerce: per 3 (scaled for map size, 3 is standard) connected foreign cities of civ 1 (max 5 :commerce: )
+ 1 :commerce: per 3 (scaled for map size, 3 is standard) connected foreign cities of civ 2 (max 5 :commerce: )
+ 1 :commerce: per 3 (scaled for map size, 3 is standard) connected foreign cities of civ 3 (max 5 :commerce: )
...
+ 1 :commerce: per 3 (scaled for map size, 3 is standard) connected foreign cities of civ N (max 5 :commerce: )


N could be diffent from building to building, and be affected by wonders, civics, techs...

On the negative side, we would need a new algorithm that would select and sort your trade partners, but that sounds doable for me.

On the plus side, it would counterbalance warmongering.


One more thing came to my mind: In the very early game, the first trade routes between your cities are dearly needed to increase your income a tiny bit, since alternatives are few. If they fall away, we need to compensate. How about add something like + 1 :commerce: per connected domestic city (max 5 :commerce: ) to the palace?
 
Lighthouse changes sound good.

A genera question to the "connectedness". As I understand it, it is just a yes/no check if there is a possible route between two cities.
So, if I keep a small vassal with (just the numbers from the suggested buildings above) 30 backwater cities somewhere in the tundra, all my cities would get full value from their trade related buildings?

Only domestic trade related buildings. Not foreign ones.

I think that the game is currently geare dvery much toward expansionism. There is nothing holding you back from expanding (exept if you restrict yourself for some roleplaying reasons or otherwise). But for efficiency, its always better to have more cities. The only mechanic (revolutions aside) holding you back is city upkeep, but thats nowhere enough.

I agree city upkeep is fairly low and the game is geared towards expansionism. I want to make it possible to play with a smaller civilization and plan on re-balancing some of the civics to do so.

One more thing came to my mind: In the very early game, the first trade routes between your cities are dearly needed to increase your income a tiny bit, since alternatives are few. If they fall away, we need to compensate. How about add something like + 1 :commerce: per connected domestic city (max 5 :commerce: ) to the palace?

Some early buildings like the wheelwright now give commerce if you are connected to the capital.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13350053 said:
When I look at the city screen, only domestic connected cities are shown, not foreign ones. Is this intentional?

Yes. Hover over the "trade" icon, it says it only shows "Domestic" cities. Foreign ones would just take up too much space.
 
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