Bulgarian mod

[svetg]

I like Konnik too, but there is a small problem. Currently it's exactly the same as Mongol Keshik. I'd like to make it unique somehow. What changes would make it unique and not overpowered but still playable and preffered?

 

[fing0lfin]

I can't help with this I haven't really played civ4...

 

[greentea]

I guess this discussion is dead, but how about increased withdrawal chance instead of first strike/ignore terrain? Fits historically, as well .

 

[BG_Zero]

I am sorry ,but i dont like.This is unforgivable,we dont have nothing commonly with Russia.Our lenguage is completely diferent from russian lenguage.Its annoying to hear russian speach on the place of bulgarian.Its the sam like turkish on the place of english.The capital in modern ages is not Pliska, its Sofia.So if you make a bulgarian nation make the important things first PLEASE.But i appreciate that you have choosen to make Bulgarian nation.

You are not right we are slavs as well as the russians.And aur lenguage is from the same group the "slavian" group.So the russian is the closest lenguage to the bulgarian in civ4.

 

[ComradeGeneral]

i dont know if you're still working on this mod but
first of all great work, the leaders are really nicely thought out and for those criticizing zhivkov, he is a good choice since he ruled bulgaria for almost 40 years which is a great amount of time for anyone that wasnt a monarch and ruled by a "divine right"
as for the UU konnik is good and all but it really is very similar to the mongol UU, so how about you make the UU a simple bomber, we were the first to use aerial bombardment in warfare just before WW1 i think. its just a proposal, but otherwise use the konnik, but the fact that it is invisible and only spies can see make it invincible and so kinda unbalance the game completely

keep up the good work

 

[Damjo]

I don't know from where is these qoute 'bulgaro-turks' but it craps.

Lol.. Sorry, couldn't resist myself when I read that..

I'm no expert on Bulgaria , but as for speaking a slavic language , that's definitely true. I met a waitress at a Balkan restaurant the other night which claimed to be from Bulgaria. In addition to having a slavic name , she understood what she called "Yugoslavian" (Serbo-Croatian) because it was very similar to her language.

In a sense you're right. The cyrillic alphabet was developed by two Macedonian saints, Cyril & Methodius, roughly around 10th-12th century AD. The cyrillic alphabet was then adopted and made the official alphabet by many slav-dominated states such as Russia, the Ukraine, Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina (partly official), Bulgaria, Macedonia and so on. Over time each state added and discarded certain letters from the alphabet and "customised" it for themselves..

Russians can understand Bulgarians (mostly), Serbians can understand Macedonians (mostly), but they are not alike one another. The ties between the cyrillic-speaking countries are identical to latin-based speaking countries such as French to English or German to English. The difference is the cyrillic-speaking languages are far more identical to one another but aren't the same..

You can probably understand roughly 25-40% of what a German or Italian person is saying to you, just because both of your languages have roots in the old Latin text. Of course all western-European languages have altered and further branched off from one another but there's still similarities. But when it comes to Bulgarian compared to Serbian let's say, the comparison is more around 70-85%. Its the same thing as Latin-languages, they're just closer to one another in similarity..

It's not a slavic language. Slavs are the main ethnic group that speak the cyrillic language..

You are not right we are slavs as well as the russians.And aur lenguage is from the same group the "slavian" group.So the russian is the closest lenguage to the bulgarian in civ4.

True. Russian is the closest you'll get to Bulgarian in the game. Just go with it.. Or make the Bulgarian voice-overs yourself ..

 

[fing0lfin]

Lol.. Sorry, couldn't resist myself when I read that..



In a sense you're right. The cyrillic alphabet was developed by two Macedonian saints, Cyril & Methodius, roughly around 10th-12th century AD. The cyrillic alphabet was then adopted and made the official alphabet by many slav-dominated states such as Russia, the Ukraine, Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina (partly official), Bulgaria, Macedonia and so on. Over time each state added and discarded certain letters from the alphabet and "customised" it for themselves..

Russians can understand Bulgarians (mostly), Serbians can understand Macedonians (mostly), but they are not alike one another. The ties between the cyrillic-speaking countries are identical to latin-based speaking countries such as French to English or German to English. The difference is the cyrillic-speaking languages are far more identical to one another but aren't the same..

You can probably understand roughly 25-40% of what a German or Italian person is saying to you, just because both of your languages have roots in the old Latin text. Of course all western-European languages have altered and further branched off from one another but there's still similarities. But when it comes to Bulgarian compared to Serbian let's say, the comparison is more around 70-85%. Its the same thing as Latin-languages, they're just closer to one another in similarity..

It's not a slavic language. Slavs are the main ethnic group that speak the cyrillic language..



True. Russian is the closest you'll get to Bulgarian in the game. Just go with it.. Or make the Bulgarian voice-overs yourself ..

Hm..I can't agree with you on some points.
First what do you mean by Macadonian saints ? I really can't get it. Explain please.
Second, the cyrillic alphabet was developed in 9th centuryAD. And it was not developed by Cyril and Methodius, it was developed by one of their Bulgarian students, Klement of Ohrid..Cyril & Methodius developed the glagolic alphabet.(which was improved and adapted by Klement of Ohrid, and wass called Cyrilic in the name of Saint Cyril.)


And there is no such thing as cyrilic language. It's an alphaped, a graphical system(the cyrilic), not a language.

 

[Dionysius]

why is it so complicated to get?
just put the thing in a .zip fiolder...

 

[Damjo]

Hm..I can't agree with you on some points.
First what do you mean by Macadonian saints ? I really can't get it. Explain please.
Second, the cyrillic alphabet was developed in 9th centuryAD. And it was not developed by Cyril and Methodius, it was developed by one of their Bulgarian students, Klement of Ohrid..Cyril & Methodius developed the glagolic alphabet.(which was improved and adapted by Klement of Ohrid, and wass called Cyrilic in the name of Saint Cyril.)


And there is no such thing as cyrilic language. It's an alphaped, a graphical system(the cyrilic), not a language.

They were Macedonian saints in the sense that they were ethnic Macedonians who were given the title saints (I dont have a very extensive knowledge on Cyril & Methodius or their student Klement, but I think I can be credited with getting the basic storyline that the roots of the Cyrillic alphabet came from these three characters)..

And I wasnt so sure what time period they developed the alphabet which is why I was sketchy when naming the time period. Thanks for clearing that up for me..

And yes, it's not really a cyrillic-language. I should correct myself there. I started dosing off when I wrote all that down, I wasn't paying much attention..

 

[fing0lfin]

Hm i see that you have read Macadonian propaganda.
Cyril & Methodius were not ethnic Macedonians. Actually there is no such thing as Macadonian ethnic(not talking about the ancient Macadonians).
Cyril & Methodius were Byzantine. They were born in Thessalonica.

Btw, can you give me the source of your information? From where you have read all this things ?

 

[Damjo]

Hm i see that you have read Macadonian propaganda.
Cyril & Methodius were not ethnic Macedonians. Actually there is no such thing as Macadonian ethnic(not talking about the ancient Macadonians).
Cyril & Methodius were Byzantine. They were born in Thessalonica.

Btw, can you give me the source of your information? From where you have read all this things ?

Id disagree with you on your theory that there are no ethnic Macedonians, but I do remember that you're Bulgarian and I know the claims they have over todays modern-Macedonian population. But I for one do not want to get into any political debate on this forum and especially not one relating to the balkans as it would be nothing but endless see-saw chatter that will get us no where but arguing with one another. You have your opinions, I have mine, and I advise it would be best if we don't let these views start a conflict between us. Political debating is not going to achieve anything for either of us..

Oh, and Thessalonica was within the province of Macedonia at the time. But again, I dont want to get into another pointless debate..

My source of information comes from a variety of school text books, historical books that I've skimmed through in the library during a spare minute or two that I have and wikipedia. It's just something that I do whenever I have spare time and fancy reading through a historical event or two so I can't say my information relies primarily on one source..

 

[fing0lfin]

I agree that this is not the place for political debates. I am not starting an argument about the question.

Oh, and Thessalonica was within the province of Macedonia at the time.

That's why asked you to clear what you meant by Macadonian saints. You said Macadonian ethnicy.Thessalonica beeing in Macadonia province doesn't make the people who live there Macadonians by ethnic. The people who live in Thrace are not Thracians, right ? And the Cyrilus and Metodius are Greeks, by ethnic.(check in wiki if you want) .

I want to ask you something. It's not political, i don't want to discus the present situation of Macadonia. Just want to ask one historical question.
Have you read about Macadonian ethnicy or nation in sourse writen before 1944 ?

 

[Damjo]

I agree that this is not the place for political debates. I am not starting an argument about the question.

That's why asked you to clear what you meant by Macadonian saints. You said Macadonian ethnicy.Thessalonica beeing in Macadonia province doesn't make the people who live there Macadonians by ethnic. The people who live in Thrace are not Thracians, right ? And the Cyrilus and Metodius are Greeks, by ethnic.(check in wiki if you want) .

I want to ask you something. It's not political, i don't want to discus the present situation of Macadonia. Just want to ask one historical question.
Have you read about Macadonian ethnicy or nation in sourse writen before 1944 ?

You cant assume wikipedia to be a reliable source. Then again you cant assume any source on the internet to be reliable. Lets not forget that wikipedia can be openly edited by anyone with internet access, and the people who constructed those articles could be anywhere from freshman college student to a professional historian. Every source you will ever encounter in your life (written source) will be biased. It's only a matter of how biased it is..

I said that they were Macedonian because Thessalonica was a city in the ancient Macedon kingdom. And its true you cant call them Macedonians just because they were born in Thessalonica, but Ive looked them up on wikipedia just as you said and so far its telling me their parents were Thessalonicans too, which one can probably assume that yes they were Macedonians..

"Their father, Leon, was a military officer in the thema of Thessaloniki and their mother his wife Maria." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodius_and_Cyril,_Saints

You can argue with me that ancient Macedonians are Greek (or Bulgarian) and not a separate ethnicity, but we both know that'll go on for an eternity..

And in response to your question about Macedonian ethnicity and such before 1944. Yes I have. I have also read about the division of Macedonian territory between Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania and of the denationalising done by both Greeks and Bulgarians during that time period..

In fact next time I'll remember to jot down the source where I read this information and regurgitate for you should I come across it again. It's a promise..

 

[fing0lfin]

I see that you can't understand me.
As far as i remember you said that they were Macadonian because of their etnicy. And i don't see what is the relation with the ancient Macadonian kingdom. It was centuries before Cyrilus and Metodius.
And i really can't get why they are Macadonians, when theit parents are from Thessalonicane
Cyrilus and Metodius were Greeks. There are tons of researches about that. You can read that they are Greeks in each source.

You can argue with me that ancient Macedonians are Greek (or Bulgarian) and not a separate ethnicity, but we both know that'll go on for an eternity..

Have i ever claimed something about the ancient Macadonians ?
Do you make difference between the ancient Macadonians and the curent population of Macadonia ?

And in response to your question about Macedonian ethnicity and such before 1944. Yes I have.....

You have not understood me again. May be it's because of my English...
I am asking you, if you have read somethin for the macadonians(not the ancient) written before 1944. For example some medieval chronicle about them ? And not about the region called Macadonia. For Macadonian ethnicy and nation.

I have also read about the division of Macedonian territory between Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albania and of the denationalising done by both Greeks and Bulgarians during that time period..

This thing is writen after 1944 right ? I gues this is about the peroid of the Balkan wars, and ww1 ?

In fact next time I'll remember to jot down the source where I read this information and regurgitate for you should I come across it again. It's a promise..

I am looking forward to it.

 

[BG_Zero]

My bulgarian comrade here is right.Kiril i Metodi are greek,and they have not invented cyric.The students did when they came in to Bulgaria,after the dead of their teachers.Kniaz Boris greed them and give them the chance to work for bulgarian interests,creating the alphabet that can be easy to learn and serve as a bulgarian alphabet.It is indeed based on the Kiril and Metodi alphabet, but its an improved a lot.
As for macedonians its realy shame thet you belive your goverment's crap!There are still many macedonians who are afraid to call themselves bulgarians thanks to your goverment's politic.And your history books,try to read something from a difrent sorce (not bulgarian if you dont belive them ) and see what the rest of the world historians think about the "macedonian nation".

 

[svetg]

Hey, guys, Chill Out!

I agree, there should be some historical/political discussion, because this mod is supposed to represents the Bulgarian spirit, playing civ IV, but Cyryl/Methodius/Klement have nothing to do with this.
I agree that the Russian is not a good choice, but at this time it was the closest sounding to Bulgarian language available in the game. Recording Bulgarian phrases (by myself) sounds horrible to me (literally and figuratively) as I'm not a radio star or Hollywood actor
I didn't have much time recently, even to play CIVIV. However, I installed Warlords yesterday and I'm thinking to update the mod again.

I think, I'm done with the leaders. The people I chose, played a big role in Bulgarian history, However, I'm open to add new ones by demand. They don't have to be Kings or Tzars . Levski and Ivailo are good choices too.
The picture and the name of the leader are one of the easiest things to implement. The hardest part is to describe the charisma of the leader with traits and favorite civics available in the game.

I'm not sure for the unique unit too. My first version included three UU, each represents one of the three Bulgarian Kingdoms. Adding my mod to the bigger mods as superciv by Lankou required only one UU, so for now I'm stucked to Konnik (Bulgarian Horseman). I don't know yet how to make it unique for the game and balanced (not over- or under-powered).

I'll appreciate any help, especially for the graphic/sound part. The guy who didn't like Russian in the game, as completely different, can send me recorded phrases on Bulgarian .

Let's make the mod together - playable, enjoyable and Bulgarian .

 

[fing0lfin]

I would be glad to help but i can't I can only give you historical infotmation. I don't have civ4 and i have never played it

 

[svetg]

O.K., ...historical information, you said .

One question with enhanced difficulty:
"What is the single most unique and famous Bulgarian military unit for the history of Bulgaria (1300+ years ) and what special abilities makes it sо unique among the other similar warriors?

tic-tac-tic-tac... "Ами сега?".....

 

[BG_Zero]

Hey, guys, Chill Out!

I agree, there should be some historical/political discussion, because this mod is supposed to represents the Bulgarian spirit, playing civ IV, but Cyryl/Methodius/Klement have nothing to do with this.
I agree that the Russian is not a good choice, but at this time it was the closest sounding to Bulgarian language available in the game. Recording Bulgarian phrases (by myself) sounds horrible to me (literally and figuratively) as I'm not a radio star or Hollywood actor
I didn't have much time recently, even to play CIVIV. However, I installed Warlords yesterday and I'm thinking to update the mod again.

I think, I'm done with the leaders. The people I chose, played a big role in Bulgarian history, However, I'm open to add new ones by demand. They don't have to be Kings or Tzars . Levski and Ivailo are good choices too.
The picture and the name of the leader are one of the easiest things to implement. The hardest part is to describe the charisma of the leader with traits and favorite civics available in the game.

I'm not sure for the unique unit too. My first version included three UU, each represents one of the three Bulgarian Kingdoms. Adding my mod to the bigger mods as superciv by Lankou required only one UU, so for now I'm stucked to Konnik (Bulgarian Horseman). I don't know yet how to make it unique for the game and balanced (not over- or under-powered).

I'll appreciate any help, especially for the graphic/sound part. The guy who didn't like Russian in the game, as completely different, can send me recorded phrases on Bulgarian .

Let's make the mod together - playable, enjoyable and Bulgarian .

Hmm I agree.But i dont know why is the use of russian upsets that guye Its mot such a big deal that you are using russian.Its probobly the closest to aur langluge,after serbian.Sory for my bad english

 

[fing0lfin]

O.K., ...historical information, you said .

One question with enhanced difficulty:
"What is the single most unique and famous Bulgarian military unit for the history of Bulgaria (1300+ years ) and what special abilities makes it sо unique among the other similar warriors?

tic-tac-tic-tac... "Ами сега?".....

Yes..a hard question. Hard because this period of 1300 years covers a cuople of different ages,with differen't military units...
But as it was said before i think it should be mounted unit. Horseman, Konnik,Конник или Конница.

The Bulgarians were 'horse people'. Their army was mainly consisred of horsmen. And they were good horsmen because the spent all their lives on and near the horses...but that can be said for every horsmen
The Bulgarian cavalery(конниц&#1072 had high discipline. Every man had several horses, but he had only one specially trained for war. It was forbiden to do anything else with it.
And now i think here comes the most unique part It's belived that the Bulgarians were the first who brought the stirrups to Europe(стремен&#1072. This gave the a couple of advantages in battle. The Bulgarians could shoot with a bow from the back of the horse. Also some other weapons might be used by the horsemen, such as swords. The stirups also incrased the stability consequently and the speed of the rider.