"Khan Asparuh"'s face is exactly the same as Chenghiz Khan's since nobody knows how he looked. "Simeon" is close enough, I just have to replace the background. I would like to replace "Todor Zhivkov" completely when I have a time. Also I will replace the russian language with english and probably will replace the "Boyar" unit with something else.
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Bulgarian mod
- Thread starter svetg
- Start date
Shqype
Shqyptar
That's right , nobody can combat it , only spies can see it , but they can't attack it.
Zuberbuler
Chieftain
You have to change your history source coz this "1:10" is a lil bitsvetg said:
And this "proto-Bulgars " is 
too 
I think that you read quite strange books But 
for the mod 
Аnd one more thing - hi is right
Shqype said:
That's right , nobody can combat it , only spies can see it , but they can't attack it.
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
Hi hi... Here comes I... I stole my nick from one of the Bulgarian leaders in CIV! Great!
Nice work, SvetG . I haven't tested it yet but wondered. Does this mean that every leader has it's personal UU?
Will try it soon. Cheers.
EDIT: Actually, remplacing the infantry with the partizanin seems a bit tough for me, he's at strength 10... So you'll lack defense for quite a while... You'll be forced to keep a lot of rifles. I would do it with the grenadier perhaps... Have to playtest this.
Nice work, SvetG
. I haven't tested it yet but wondered. Does this mean that every leader has it's personal UU?Will try it soon. Cheers.
EDIT: Actually, remplacing the infantry with the partizanin seems a bit tough for me, he's at strength 10... So you'll lack defense for quite a while... You'll be forced to keep a lot of rifles. I would do it with the grenadier perhaps... Have to playtest this.
That was my idea originally, but it's not supported by the game. When you play with one of the leaders you have all three units.
Actually, I tried the "Partizanin" just once and it's disappointing to loose the unit trying to spy in the city. The other units are not really unique. The Konnik is exactly the same as Mongol Keshik and Boyar is Knight with different name.
I did the mod a couple days after the game was available, when I didn't play yet. Probably it's not a good idea and have to be changed. At this time I wanted to create some UNIQUE unit, possibly based on reality.
I asked you, guys what should be done and what special units and leaders YOU want, so I can make it. I expected some discussion like in the other mod threads. This didn't happened. The answers was "Great, I like it" and "Bad, I don't like it", "Why X is Y" , not what I expected - "Let's WE make a special unit XXX with power YYY and..." Until WE, the Bulgarian mod players, decide what should be the mod and why, I'm not changing anything.
I changed the strength to 10 to compensate for invisibility. I believe the real partizans were less powerful than regular army and more invisible, so their tactic was hide, fight and run. I'm not sure is this playable or not. I didn't play with this unit a lot. The "Boyar" is not good for me too, because I preffer to wait a little more and have some gun units instead. So, what is your preference?
The History is not a book, but bunch of facts that everybody can interpret and nobody knows the Truth for sure.
This was my answer why I selected hunting and agriculture as starting technologies. The facts I know about are that Proto-Bulgars were nomads and hunters and Slavs were peasants. They formed together the Bulgarian civilization. That's why I named the first Bulgarians Proto-Bulgars. Maybe Bulgars is a better term.
Some of my strange books: http://www.digsys.bg/books/history/, http://encyclopedia.com/html/section/bulgaria_history.asp
About the proportion 1:10 it's not true of course, but since nobody knows the true proportion, even Zuberbuler, I just made a guess. Maybe it was 1:100 or 1:20 or 1:3.
A quote from the history books:
So, The bulgarian tribe was one, the Slavs tribes were seven and there were some Thracians and other tribes, so 1:10 is close enough.
For sure the Slavs were a lot more than Bulgars. The facts is - they assimilated the culture and the language of the Bulgars during the years. This is possible only when they are a lot more. Something similar happened when Mongols conquered China. They were assimilated too by the chinese.
btw, Zuberbuler - What is your history source, what is the difference and why do you think it's better than my source? I'd like to learn something new.
I don't know from where is these qoute 'bulgaro-turks' but it craps. The Bulgarinas come from Pamir and they are Aryans.
And actually the Bulgarians assimilated the slavs, i mean culture and customs. Our customs now, are the Bulgarian ones not the slav.
And that the slav tribes were 7 and the bulgarian tribe(actualy it was not a tribe) was one, doesn't mean that the slavs were more. I mean that every tribe has different numbers. And the slavs didn't assimilated the Bulgarians. There is research on genetic material from Bulgarians, and they show that we are much closer to the 'proto' Bulgarinas, than the Slavs.
p.s. I think that this disscusion is better for the history section
And actually the Bulgarians assimilated the slavs, i mean culture and customs. Our customs now, are the Bulgarian ones not the slav.
And that the slav tribes were 7 and the bulgarian tribe(actualy it was not a tribe) was one, doesn't mean that the slavs were more. I mean that every tribe has different numbers. And the slavs didn't assimilated the Bulgarians. There is research on genetic material from Bulgarians, and they show that we are much closer to the 'proto' Bulgarinas, than the Slavs.
p.s. I think that this disscusion is better for the history section
The quote is from here http://www.digsys.bg/books/history/year-681.html . I don't agree too, but I can't change a quote.
Which customs are bulgarian? Christmas? 1st of May And why all bulgarians speak slavic language when they assimilated Slavs?
I can say that somewhere is research on Slavs that say they are much closer to Arcturians than everybody else Who made the research? Where they got clean Proto-Bulgarians genes to compare with? Time traveliing?
About the Bulgarian "tribe", you're right it was not a tribe, but 1/5 of it. And the original Bulgarian tribe was not very big because they can't fight for their land to Hasars, but prefered to run away, divided by 5 groups.
I have a link from a respected source that says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians
What do you have, fing0lfin?
Which customs are bulgarian? Christmas? 1st of May
And why all bulgarians speak slavic language when they assimilated Slavs? I can say that somewhere is research on Slavs that say they are much closer to Arcturians than everybody else
Who made the research? Where they got clean Proto-Bulgarians genes to compare with? Time traveliing?About the Bulgarian "tribe", you're right it was not a tribe, but 1/5 of it. And the original Bulgarian tribe was not very big because they can't fight for their land to Hasars, but prefered to run away, divided by 5 groups.
I have a link from a respected source that says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians
What do you have, fing0lfin?
As i see you don't get it 
First Christmas and 1 May aren't cultural customs. One is Christian celebration, other is communist one. I will tell you some customs- martenici, nestinarstvo, kukerstvo. The language was made to unite the country and actually isn't slavic.
Yes it wasn't tribe, it was much more than a tribe. And actually the Bulgarians weren't small numbers. They had powerfull country before the dead of Khan Kubrat(that's why it was called Great Bulgaria from the Byzantians). And this country wasn't formed only from one tribe. About the pure Bulgarian genes, i will say only Volga Bulgarians.
I have historical books, much more serious than some wiki artice IMO.
First Christmas and 1 May aren't cultural customs. One is Christian celebration, other is communist one. I will tell you some customs- martenici, nestinarstvo, kukerstvo. The language was made to unite the country and actually isn't slavic.Yes it wasn't tribe, it was much more than a tribe. And actually the Bulgarians weren't small numbers. They had powerfull country before the dead of Khan Kubrat(that's why it was called Great Bulgaria from the Byzantians). And this country wasn't formed only from one tribe. About the pure Bulgarian genes, i will say only Volga Bulgarians.
I have historical books, much more serious than some wiki artice IMO.
Shqype
Shqyptar
I'm no expert on Bulgaria , but as for speaking a slavic language , that's definitely true. I met a waitress at a Balkan restaurant the other night which claimed to be from Bulgaria. In addition to having a slavic name , she understood what she called "Yugoslavian" (Serbo-Croatian) because it was very similar to her language.
According to this site http://www.spellintime.fsnet.co.uk/Folklore.htm martenici is Bulgar custom, Kukeri and Nestinarstvo are Thracian and Koleda (Christmas) is Slavic. You can't be maximalist to think that assimilation is only total and assimilate everything. There should be something left from every culture.
How can you claim this without any evidences? Everybody knows that the Bulgarian belongs to the group of South Slavic languages.
I can imagine how the Bulgarian Khan
around 7th-9th Century is telling to the people: Guys, we conquered those Slavs years ago, because we are many and they are not, but from now on we have to create a new language to unite the country. It will not be Slavic of course. Just the Grammar and the Words will be Slavic. The rest (i.e. the name) will be Bulgarian
And you claim that they are PURE Bulgarians when you said that Great Bulgaria was not only one tribe. And they didn't mix at all for the last 1,500 years!
I'd say there are mixed with East Slavs and Mongols mostly....and they are...? Why they are not popular then?
Martenici is Bulgarian custom. Kukeri and nestinarstvo, too. How can i convince you that they are ? May be we should search for materials in I-net, and who finds more, supporting his oppinion win I can explain what are these customs. They are all Bulgarian. Koleda is the Bulgarian word for Christmas. And how can be Koleda slavic custom, when it's a Christian one ??!?! May be only the slavs celebrate christmas. The whole world celebrate a slavic custom 
Actually i am wondereing, how can such crappy matterials, like this which you qoute, exsists.
I don't find anything fun in this. There are many evindaces, just you don't know them. There are many Bulgarian words in the language. And in the Bulgarian Cyrilic, some specific protobulgarian sounds were added.
And actually the Bulgarians didn't conqered the slavs, they united.
About the books, if you want i can give you names and authors, but i doubd you will find them. And when something is popular, is that mean it is true ? In the ancient times it was popular that the earth was flat... And actually history rest upon facts, not popularity.
And that Wikipedia is popular, doesn't make the articles in it good.
I can explain what are these customs. They are all Bulgarian. Koleda is the Bulgarian word for Christmas. And how can be Koleda slavic custom, when it's a Christian one ??!?! May be only the slavs celebrate christmas. The whole world celebrate a slavic custom Actually i am wondereing, how can such crappy matterials, like this which you qoute, exsists.I don't find anything fun in this. There are many evindaces, just you don't know them. There are many Bulgarian words in the language. And in the Bulgarian Cyrilic, some specific protobulgarian sounds were added.
And actually the Bulgarians didn't conqered the slavs, they united.
About the books, if you want i can give you names and authors, but i doubd you will find them. And when something is popular, is that mean it is true ? In the ancient times it was popular that the earth was flat... And actually history rest upon facts, not popularity.
And that Wikipedia is popular, doesn't make the articles in it good.
Tunch Khan
King
So is Todor Zhivkov still popular among mainstream Bulgarians enough to make him one of the three leaders in this mod?
It depends. For some people he's popular, for some he is not. i don't like him, personally. If I wanted to create all leaders only from the popular people, these would be the last three bulgarian leaders, because they are familiar to the current generation and of course they were slected by the majority to be their leaders.
The Bulgarian Civilization exists for more than 1300 years and is divided by three Kingdoms. I wanted to have a leader for every Kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bulgarian_monarchs
The First Bulgarian Kingdom begins with Khan Asparuh (681) and ends with Tzar Samuil (1018). The most notable leaders were Khan Asparuh, Tzar Simeon and Knyaz Boris. I selected Khan Asparuh, because I can use Chenghiz Khan art and because he is the founder, of course.
The Second Bulgarian Kingdom begins with Ivan-Asen at 1186 and ends, as you know
, with Tzar Shishman at 1393. My favorite for this period was Kaloyan, but I decided to use Tzar Simeon instead. He was the most succesful bulgarian leader ever and I can't just skip it. The Third Bulgarian Kingdom begins with Alexander of Battenberg (1879) . The first Tzars were Germans, so I didn't want to select them as leaders. From the rest only Todor Zhivkov ruled more than ten years. Actually 33 years from the total of 126 years for this period! Not bad at all. So he was the logical choice. I don't like him too, but for good or bad he is the most notable leader for this period.
This is a quote from the site above:
As you know the Christianity is known for its intolerance to other religions and customs. So, after Bulgarians became Christians they used the Christmas date to celebrate Koleda. Later, in the Communist era we used New Year's Holiday to celebrate the same thing. After 1989 when the Christianity was fashionable again, Koleda was celebrated at Christmas date again. In the other countries Christmas is celebrated as pure Christian holiday with pictures of Jesus birth. In Bulgaria this is celebrated with Koledari, Survakari...you know that if you are Bulgarian.
fing0lfin, I'm not going to argue with you anymore. It's useless. I'm Bulgarian, but I'm not a PURE Bulgarian, since there is not a pure nationality in the world anymore, except nationalists like you and...you know who else.
I don't care where Bulgarians came from and who assimilated who. All I know for sure is that I were born in the country with name Bulgaria from the parents that called themselves Bulgarians and all my Grand-parents I know about were Bulgarians. Everything else I learned from the books and other sources, but I didn't witnessed, except the time when I lived. And even for that time I know about two different versions of the History. What's happened 1300 ago and since is manipulated by the historians and politics at their interests. As you know - "History Is Written By The Winners."
Maybe your version of the history is true, maybe main, maybe something in between or something completely different. I don't know and I don't care. That's why I'm stucked to the most popular version.
If you want to discuss this further you can try some offtopic thread. This thread is deducated for the Bulgarian mod for Civilization IV. If you have some questions or proposals for the mod I'll be glad to discuss.
Tunch Khan
King
Meh, Todor was evil and corrupt, but i guess we can say the same for many rulers in general. I'm not against having notorious leaders.
In the beging i said that this is not the right place for such disscussion. I am not agree with you about many points, but i think we should realy stop discussing it here.
Do you live in Bulgaria ? Do you know Bulgarian ? Знаеш ли Български?
And about the proposoals..i have one
I think the a good UU for the period of the end of 19 to the middle of 20 century will be the Bulgarian infantry. I think it should be stronger than a normal infantry, but not too much. Also it should be cheap. The Bulgarian army was full of volunteers and mobilzed men. Also it might have good speed, or just every squere as road squere. The Bulgarian infantry had proved that it can march over great distances. For example in the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885, the Bulgarin soldiers marched 100 km without stop, and then they immediately attacked the enemy.
Ah...and one suggestion about the leaders. May be you should replace T. Jivkov with Stefan Stambolov
Do you live in Bulgaria ? Do you know Bulgarian ? Знаеш ли Български?
And about the proposoals..i have one
I think the a good UU for the period of the end of 19 to the middle of 20 century will be the Bulgarian infantry. I think it should be stronger than a normal infantry, but not too much. Also it should be cheap. The Bulgarian army was full of volunteers and mobilzed men. Also it might have good speed, or just every squere as road squere. The Bulgarian infantry had proved that it can march over great distances. For example in the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885, the Bulgarin soldiers marched 100 km without stop, and then they immediately attacked the enemy.
Ah...and one suggestion about the leaders. May be you should replace T. Jivkov with Stefan Stambolov
Thank you for the proposal. As I said earlier I made a three UU, but now I want to limit that to one.
I had a hard time deciding which UU is really unique for Bulgaria and playable at the same time. So, the current units are:
Konnik (replaces Horse archer)
(uses Mongol keshik art)
- 50 cost
- Attack and defense same as Mongol keshik
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6
Boyar (replaces Knight)
(uses Knight art)
- 60 cost
- Attack and defense same as Knight
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6
Partizanin (replaces Infantry)
(uses Infantry art)
- 140 cost
- Attack and defense same as Infantry
- Movement: 1
- Power: 10
- Invisible, can sabotage and destroy
..and the new proposals are:
Bulgarian Infantry
(uses Infantry art)
- 100 cost
- Attack and defense same as Infantry
- Movement: 2
- Power: 22
Which one is the best and deserve to be a Bulgarian UU? All changes to the names, values, etc are welcome to discussion as well as new proposals.
About the leaders, there is no limit as far as I know, so the current leaders will be kept. I welcome the addition of new leaders.
The current leaders are:
Khan Asparuh (Aggressive, Expansive) favors Vassalage
(currently using Gehghis Khan leaderhead)
Tzar Simeon Veliki (Philosophical, Creative) favors Hereditary Rule
(currently using Peter leaderhead)
Todor Zhivkov (Industrious, Organized) favors State property
(currently using Roosevelt leaderhead)
The new proposals are:
Khan Krum (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Knyaz Boris (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Tzar Samuil (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Tzar Kaloyan (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Tzar Ivan-Asen II (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Ivailo the Swineherd (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Ivan Shishman (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Stefan Stambolov (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Zhelyu Zhelev (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
All changes to the new leaders are welcome. I'm not going to change the leaderheads for now, first because I don't have enough time and second this will make the mod too heavy in size and this, possibly will prevent other modders to include it in their Supermods.
I had a hard time deciding which UU is really unique for Bulgaria and playable at the same time. So, the current units are:
Konnik (replaces Horse archer)
(uses Mongol keshik art)
- 50 cost
- Attack and defense same as Mongol keshik
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6
Boyar (replaces Knight)
(uses Knight art)
- 60 cost
- Attack and defense same as Knight
- Movement: 2
- Power: 6
Partizanin (replaces Infantry)
(uses Infantry art)
- 140 cost
- Attack and defense same as Infantry
- Movement: 1
- Power: 10
- Invisible, can sabotage and destroy
..and the new proposals are:
Bulgarian Infantry
(uses Infantry art)
- 100 cost
- Attack and defense same as Infantry
- Movement: 2
- Power: 22
Which one is the best and deserve to be a Bulgarian UU? All changes to the names, values, etc are welcome to discussion as well as new proposals.
About the leaders, there is no limit as far as I know, so the current leaders will be kept. I welcome the addition of new leaders.
The current leaders are:
Khan Asparuh (Aggressive, Expansive) favors Vassalage
(currently using Gehghis Khan leaderhead)
Tzar Simeon Veliki (Philosophical, Creative) favors Hereditary Rule
(currently using Peter leaderhead)
Todor Zhivkov (Industrious, Organized) favors State property
(currently using Roosevelt leaderhead)
The new proposals are:
Khan Krum (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Knyaz Boris (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Tzar Samuil (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Tzar Kaloyan (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Tzar Ivan-Asen II (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Ivailo the Swineherd (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Ivan Shishman (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Stefan Stambolov (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
Zhelyu Zhelev (?, ?) favors ?
(currently using ? leaderhead)
All changes to the new leaders are welcome. I'm not going to change the leaderheads for now, first because I don't have enough time and second this will make the mod too heavy in size and this, possibly will prevent other modders to include it in their Supermods.
I think that the UU should be konnik. And here are my reasons :
First i think, it should be a unit from the middleages, not a modern one. Simply because then Bulgaria was in its peak.
So i have to choose betwwen Boyar and Konnik.. I choose konnik, becasue boyar is not excactly a military unit. It's administrative, too. A cheaf of a castle or land area...
And the other reason is that the Bulgarians were famous with their formidable horseriders.
:First i think, it should be a unit from the middleages, not a modern one. Simply because then Bulgaria was in its peak.
So i have to choose betwwen Boyar and Konnik.. I choose konnik, becasue boyar is not excactly a military unit. It's administrative, too. A cheaf of a castle or land area...
And the other reason is that the Bulgarians were famous with their formidable horseriders.
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