Burj Dubai opened 4th of January

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Say that Dubai became bankrupt and the surrounding nations, or the rest of the world for the matter, didn't have the means or will to help out - How long do you think it would stand without any maintenance? Are there any active help, such as computercontrolled devices that stabilizes the tower?
 
It doesn't take a super computer to move the counterweights around.

I'm pretty sure its been built to not need regular maintennance to hold it up
 
Even so, it's a pretty big tower... would it stand for 50 years without any care? 100? 200?
 
It's in the desert. So physical deterioration should be fairly slow. I don't think it's all that likely to stay vacant. If the owners cannot afford to run it, someone gets to pick up a bargain on it and try to run it themselves.
 
Some nomads you mean?! Dubai is bankrupt and the only thing left is the sand. Hypothetically.
 
It's a world real estate market. If they're broke enough, and they owe money on it, then the bank seizes it. Once they do, they have to find a buyer or run it themselves.
 
A monument to the stupidity of Dubai... they're cementing their place as the Arab Pyongyang.
 
It's a world real estate market. If they're broke enough, and they owe money on it, then the bank seizes it. Once they do, they have to find a buyer or run it themselves.

Ok, the bank seizes it, but if there were no buyers and running the place would be economically insane, what would happen? They'd probably have some obligation to tear it down, but I'm guessing that would be quite costly too. In the end, the most profitable solution would be to just leave the tower, which is why I'm wondering how long it would survive.
 
Some nomads you mean?! Dubai is bankrupt and the only thing left is the sand. Hypothetically.


It's bankrupt ... except for the tens of billions of dollars of assets it owns around the world.

The great fear during the time it was reorganizing its debt was not that it wouldn't pay back its loans but that it would. If Dubai had been forced to sell--at fire sale prices--its portions of corporations, real estate, etc. that it owns around the world, the value for the remaining owners would have plummetted. And Dubai has so many "pieces of pie," no one was sure what was going to be sold off. That's why fear seized the market.

If I were a mover and shaker, I'd have an apartment or office in the Burj Dubai. It's where the folks with money will be, and I'd want to rub shoulders with them.

Edit: Whoops, balay that!
Mohamed Ali Alabbar, the CEO of Emaar Properties, speaking at the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat 8th World Congress, said that the price of office space at Burj Dubai had reached US $4,000 per sq ft (over US $43,000 per m2) and that the Armani Residences, also in Burj Dubai, were selling for US $3,500 per sq ft (over US $37,500 per m2).

BTW: Does anyone else think it looks like the Spiral Minaret?
 
The Empire State building had a lot of vacant space when it opened during the depression. It is still standing and a landmark now.

I know at least one person who has moved into it.

Anyone fancy googling the economist article about skyscrapers opening just after the local boom ended?
 
A monument to the stupidity of Dubai... they're cementing their place as the Arab Pyongyang.
Why do you say Arab P'yongyang? Did the North Koreans have a lot of money once upon a time? I know they had the resources that the South lacked for industrialization, but it doesn't seem comparable...so why? Also, Dubai doesn't hide itself like P'yongyang.

(Not meaning to be a debate, just genuinely curious - I know that's a bit hard to believe here in OT)
 
Well apparently it isn't having any financial troubles.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8438416.stm
In recent years Dubai has grabbed the headlines with audacious offshore islands, rotating buildings and a seven star hotel. On Monday it opens the world's tallest building, Burj Dubai.
At more than 800m, Burj Dubai smashed the previous world record, which was held by Taiwan's 508m Taipei 101.
It's about twice the height of the Empire State Building, you can see its spire from 95km away and the exterior is covered in about 26,000 glass panels, which glisten in the midday desert sun.
The design of the building posed unprecedented technical and logistical challenges, not just because of its height, but also because Dubai is susceptible to high winds and is close to a geological fault line.
"You have the solutions for it but you always wonder how it will really work," Mohamed Ali Alabbar, chairman of Emaar, the developer behind Burj Dubai told the BBC.
"We have been hit with lightning twice, there was a big earthquake last year that came across from Iran, and we have had all types of wind which has hit us when we were building. The results have been good and I salute the designers and professionals who helped build it."
West to East shift
One of the companies behind the Burj was the Canadian-based wind engineering firm RWDI. Extreme wind speeds on the ground in Dubai can reach 50km an hour. At the top of the building it can be three times as fast.
Wayne Boulton, general manager of RWDI's wind engineering team in the Middle East, explains how they tested the building for wind resistance.
"We constructed a scale model and put it in a wind tunnel," he says. "In the wind tunnel we are able to test a number of different wind speeds and directions. We can test the pressure you would get on the surface of the building under normal conditions and also under more extreme events."
The last couple of decades have seen a shift in the building of skyscrapers from the West to the East. Four out of five of the world's tallest buildings are in Asia and the Middle East.
"It comes down to confidence," says Andrew Charlesworth from property consultants Jones Lang LaSalle. "A lot of these emerging economies see themselves as important players in the world and want to show they can deliver these sort of projects.
"The wealth of the world is shifting from the West to the East and emerging economies want to highlight their future expectations in terms of where they are gong to be positioning themselves globally."
White elephant?
Dubai is a city of superlatives, where everything has to be the biggest and the boldest. But like many of the world's past tallest buildings, Burj Dubai was planned and built during the boom years, and finished during a property crash. The Empire State Building was completed during the Great Depression in the 1930s and the Petronas Towers in Malaysia during the 1990s Asian financial crisis.
This has led many to question whether this latest record breaker is a white elephant. Though Mohamed Ali Alabbar argues it is anything but.
"As of today we have sold 90% of the building and we expect it to be 90%-occupied," he says. "We were lucky to make more than a 10% return. Originally we thought we'd be lucky to break even, because we can make so much money from the land around Burj Dubai which is a 500-acre site."
The fact that the developer has made a profit on its $1.5bn (£928m) investment has been helped by the fact that it bought the land with equity and not cash, and that it pre-sold most of the apartments and offices before the property crash.

Investors have already handed over 80% of the value of the apartments and offices, and will pay the remaining 20% on moving in. And in contrast to many unfinished developments in Dubai, the default rate among investors has been low.
But for investors, it has been a mixed picture. Fortunes have been won and lost on the Dubai property market, which has collapsed in spectacular fashion. Like many properties here, Burj Dubai was sold "off-plan" or before the building was completed. Offices and apartments went on sale in 2004 and most were snapped up by both local and international investors in just two days.
Mohamed Abdul Hadi is one local investor who made millions out of Burj Dubai long before the building was completed. "In 2007 we bought three floors on Burj Dubai," he told the BBC. "The first investor paid 2,500 UAE dirhams ($680; £420) per square foot. We bought at AED 3,500 and one year later we sold at around AED 5,000. Look at the profit, where else can you have this but Dubai? And with no taxes."
Oversupply
But those who invested late will be nursing large losses, according to Saud Masud, a real estate analyst at Swiss investment bank UBS. "Late stage investors may find this a lot more challenging because property prices in Dubai have come down by 50% and we think prices are likely to go down another 30%," he says.
"We have an oversupply in the property market today. We think it will reach 25% to 30% vacancy rates for residential property in a year's time, and for commercial property it's already 40%. Burj Dubai is not immune to that."
The landscape of Dubai has changed dramatically over the last two decades. Sheikh Zayed Road is the 12-lane super-highway which runs through the city and is named after the UAE's founding father. Twenty years ago there were just a few tall buildings here, now there are hundreds, all jostling for space. But in the three years that I've been here, the frenzied pace of construction has slowed down and many cranes now stand idle.
Developers are holding back on new multi-billion dollar flagship projects and focusing on finishing existing projects instead. About $190bn worth of Dubai real estate projects are currently on hold, according to Middle East Economic Digest. As in many parts of the world, banks are reluctant to lend and investors are reluctant to spend. Burj Dubai could mark the end of an era for skyscrapers in the Gulf - at least in the short term.
 
Is it enough to pay off $80 billion in debt?

From Bloomberg:

Dubai World had $59.3 billion in liabilities at the end of last year, its subsidiary Nakheel Development Ltd., said in a statement posted on the Nasdaq Dubai Web site Aug. 20. It didn’t provide a breakdown. The company had total assets of $99.6 billion at the end of 2008 and total revenue of $14.2 billion, according to the statement.
 
Why do you say Arab P'yongyang? Did the North Koreans have a lot of money once upon a time? I know they had the resources that the South lacked for industrialization, but it doesn't seem comparable...so why? Also, Dubai doesn't hide itself like P'yongyang.

(Not meaning to be a debate, just genuinely curious - I know that's a bit hard to believe here in OT)
Grandiose monuments in a place in which no demand exists for them. :D

(Also, I think the Christmas smileys can come down now...)
 
Christmas doesn't end until the sixth.

And I think Dubai will do just fine, even though those Arabs would do better with a little more moderation. Versailles was a stupid idea then, it still is.
 
Why do you say Arab P'yongyang? Did the North Koreans have a lot of money once upon a time? I know they had the resources that the South lacked for industrialization, but it doesn't seem comparable...so why? Also, Dubai doesn't hide itself like P'yongyang.

(Not meaning to be a debate, just genuinely curious - I know that's a bit hard to believe here in OT)
I don't know about the entire city, but there's a skyscraper there, the Ryugyong Hotel, which has been incomplete since 1992. From then until 2008, no one worked on it and it was essentially a massive concrete skeleton.
 
Ok, the bank seizes it, but if there were no buyers and running the place would be economically insane, what would happen? They'd probably have some obligation to tear it down, but I'm guessing that would be quite costly too. In the end, the most profitable solution would be to just leave the tower, which is why I'm wondering how long it would survive.

Construction
Burj Dubai Evolution.ogv
Play video
Concept of the monthly construction
Burj Khalifa aerial closeup in March 2008

The tower is being constructed by a South Korean company, Samsung Engineering & Construction, which also did work on the Petronas Twin Towers and Taipei 101.[49] Samsung Engineering & Construction is building the tower in a joint venture with Besix from Belgium and Arabtec from UAE. Turner is the Project Manager on the main construction contract.

The primary structural system of Burj Khalifa is reinforced concrete. Over 45,000 m3 (58,900 cu yd) of concrete, weighing more than 110,000 tonnes (120,000 ST; 110,000 LT) were used to construct the concrete and steel foundation, which features 192 piles,with each pile is 1.5 meter diameter x 43 meter long buried more than 50 m (164 ft) deep.[3] Burj Khalifa's construction used 330,000 m3 (431,600 cu yd) of concrete and 55,000 tonnes of steel rebar, and construction took 22 million man-hours.[9] A high density, low permeability concrete was used in the foundations of Burj Khalifa. A cathodic protection system under the mat is used to minimize any detrimental effects from corrosive chemicals in local ground water.[39]

The previous record for pumping concrete on any project was set during the extension of the Riva del Garda Hydroelectric Power Plant in Italy in 1994, when concrete was pumped to a height of 532 m (1,745 ft). Burj Khalifa exceeded this height on 19 August 2007, and as of May 2008 concrete was pumped to a delivery height of 606 m (1,988 ft),[28] the 156th floor. The remaining structure above is built of lighter steel.

Burj Khalifa is highly compartmentalised. Pressurized, air-conditioned refuge floors are located approximately every 35 floors where people can shelter on their long walk down to safety in case of an emergency or fire.[39][50]

Special mixes of concrete are made to withstand the extreme pressures of the massive building weight; as is typical with reinforced concrete construction, each batch of concrete used was tested to ensure it could withstand certain pressures.

The consistency of the concrete used in the project was essential. It was difficult to create a concrete that could withstand both the thousands of tonnes bearing down on it and Persian Gulf temperatures that can reach 50 °C (122 °F). To combat this problem, the concrete was not poured during the day. Instead, during the summer months ice was added to the mixture and it was poured at night when the air is cooler and the humidity is higher. A cooler concrete mixture cures evenly throughout and is therefore less likely to set too quickly and crack. Any significant cracks could have put the entire project in jeopardy.

The unique design and engineering challenges of building Burj Khalifa have been featured in a number of television documentaries, including the Big, Bigger, Biggest series on the National Geographic and Five channels, and the Mega Builders series on the Discovery Channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Dubai#Construction

You don't build something that size without building it strong. Assuming is was entirely abandoned, and not damaged in an earthquake, I'd assume it would stand on its own 2-300 years. In a dry environment it would take a long time for corrosion to significantly weaken it.
 
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