Buzzdowan's let's play series
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RedRover57
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Nice. You didn't have longbows to deal with until it was too late for them. Are you going to keep rolling with LS or wait until rifles to war with America?
buzzdowan
Warlord
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Hi RedRover57!
I was lucky (or fast enough). England got the first longbow just a turn before London fell and already I lost a LS. We could see how devastating that would be, if they had say three of them around the city. Your considerations were right.
My idea is to keep rolling with LS, I will add crossbows to the mix, and maybe even tebuchets. Speed instead of power is my strategy on this continent.
I was lucky (or fast enough). England got the first longbow just a turn before London fell and already I lost a LS. We could see how devastating that would be, if they had say three of them around the city. Your considerations were right.
My idea is to keep rolling with LS, I will add crossbows to the mix, and maybe even tebuchets. Speed instead of power is my strategy on this continent.
Optional
Deity
Ah, the mighty roar of the Indian Elephant! And those poor Shetland ponies of the English...
This is the problem when quick expanding with India. India is best for a small number of big towns. The Delhi's are okay. 8 citizens count as 4 for unhappiness. Here the amount of citizens compensates for the unhappiness penalty for the town. And Monarchy is great for a big capital.
Picking the right social policies will help. Monarchy was a good pick. Also Military Caste will be a good pick; +1 happy for each city with a garrison. With Oligarchy those garrisoned units will cost you no maintenance, so no drain on the economy from Military Caste. The social policy just below Military Caste - forgot the name - gives a happy for each defensive building. You're up those policies anyway, so you can continue filling these trees.
Again happiness will be your biggest concern. It's India. You have 5 towns, so that's 5 x 6 = 30 unhappiness from towns, whereas any other civ would have given you 5 x 3 = 15 unhappiness from towns.
This is the problem when quick expanding with India. India is best for a small number of big towns. The Delhi's are okay. 8 citizens count as 4 for unhappiness. Here the amount of citizens compensates for the unhappiness penalty for the town. And Monarchy is great for a big capital.
Picking the right social policies will help. Monarchy was a good pick. Also Military Caste will be a good pick; +1 happy for each city with a garrison. With Oligarchy those garrisoned units will cost you no maintenance, so no drain on the economy from Military Caste. The social policy just below Military Caste - forgot the name - gives a happy for each defensive building. You're up those policies anyway, so you can continue filling these trees.
RedRover57
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I've found giving units to CS allies to be useful only in very rare situations. Most of the time they have no idea how to use them properly and it's just wasted hammers on your part. There would be better things to build instead.
So according to your self-imposed rules, if you take a city from America and haven't met any other civs yet then you have to sell it to England (or give it to them if they have no money)? You can't raze it?
So according to your self-imposed rules, if you take a city from America and haven't met any other civs yet then you have to sell it to England (or give it to them if they have no money)? You can't raze it?
buzzdowan
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Hello RedRover57,
The reason for spending hammers for giving units to Helsinki was to distract America and to deploy more iron based units to the field. True, CS are bad at using them
Yes, if I take a city I have to sell it (razing is not allowed) even at zero price if that is the case. Capitals are an exception, I can keep them. There is another exception, which I forgot to point out: Whenever I am offered to liberate a city, I must take this option.
See how this works out in practice part 7 and part 8 are already up!
The reason for spending hammers for giving units to Helsinki was to distract America and to deploy more iron based units to the field. True, CS are bad at using them
Yes, if I take a city I have to sell it (razing is not allowed) even at zero price if that is the case. Capitals are an exception, I can keep them. There is another exception, which I forgot to point out: Whenever I am offered to liberate a city, I must take this option.
See how this works out in practice part 7 and part 8 are already up!
RedRover57
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It was a trade-off. Those units may have helped for a few turns after starting the war, but are now fairly useless. Instead you could have built a barracks and armory for about the same number of turns and would now be producing double-promoted units.
It will be interesting to see how you handle this rule set. It looks pretty difficult. I see a few potential issues:
1) You will need to upgrade your LS to rifles ASAP. America should have cannons very soon and will probably have 25+ strength cities before too long (if they rush buy castles, which the AI loves to do). This will make your LS obsolete as front line units. But you won't be able to upgrade them unless you send them all the way back to your territory since you won't have a city on the front. It may have been better to start the war a bit later after having rifles. You could have researched Metallurgy instead of going to Astronomy (which isn't as critical now that you know most of the civs) and then bulbed Rifling with your other GS. Taking Professional Army as your next SP would reduce your upgrade costs. The delay in doing that would probably be less in the long run than having to bring your units back for upgrades. With this rule set you basically have to plan for a campaign that can reach your objective (the enemy capital) without need for upgrading any units.
2) You could run into a situation where you are cut off from your conquered capital unless you maintain open borders with the civ that bought your other conquered cities in between. You won't be able to establish trade routes with the conquered capital unless it is on the coast (in which case you may have to annex to build a harbor).
3) You will have lower science (less population) and gold per turn without having all of those puppets to trading post. Happiness won't be as much of an issue though. You will really need to grow your core cities to make up for the lack of science and gold through conquest.
It will be interesting to see how you handle this rule set. It looks pretty difficult. I see a few potential issues:
1) You will need to upgrade your LS to rifles ASAP. America should have cannons very soon and will probably have 25+ strength cities before too long (if they rush buy castles, which the AI loves to do). This will make your LS obsolete as front line units. But you won't be able to upgrade them unless you send them all the way back to your territory since you won't have a city on the front. It may have been better to start the war a bit later after having rifles. You could have researched Metallurgy instead of going to Astronomy (which isn't as critical now that you know most of the civs) and then bulbed Rifling with your other GS. Taking Professional Army as your next SP would reduce your upgrade costs. The delay in doing that would probably be less in the long run than having to bring your units back for upgrades. With this rule set you basically have to plan for a campaign that can reach your objective (the enemy capital) without need for upgrading any units.
2) You could run into a situation where you are cut off from your conquered capital unless you maintain open borders with the civ that bought your other conquered cities in between. You won't be able to establish trade routes with the conquered capital unless it is on the coast (in which case you may have to annex to build a harbor).
3) You will have lower science (less population) and gold per turn without having all of those puppets to trading post. Happiness won't be as much of an issue though. You will really need to grow your core cities to make up for the lack of science and gold through conquest.
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
Depending on how strictly you enforce the rules you could capture a city, puppet. Then upgrade units with moves left since territory will show as yours, then sell the city all on the same turn.
buzzdowan
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Hi RedRover57,
Just finished part 10, where I decided to upgrade LS to rifles before attacking American cities following your advice no. 1)
As per 2), I do not care even if I sell conquered capitals, specially if they do not have really good wonders. Considering non-existant trade routes selling them looks even more attractive option
As per 3) I agree, I will be behind in tech. This will probably be my bigger burden though the whole game. Going for tall, science focused cities could compensate it a bit.
Just finished part 10, where I decided to upgrade LS to rifles before attacking American cities following your advice no. 1)
As per 2), I do not care even if I sell conquered capitals, specially if they do not have really good wonders. Considering non-existant trade routes selling them looks even more attractive option
As per 3) I agree, I will be behind in tech. This will probably be my bigger burden though the whole game. Going for tall, science focused cities could compensate it a bit.
RedRover57
Emperor
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Ah OK, I thought you were forcing yourself to keep capitals. In that case it will be an interesting decision when you take a capital with decent buildings/wonders but stuck out in the middle of nowhere.
RedRover57
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Just watched #10. One thing about the AI is that they will take every single possible open city spot regardless of the terrain. If you wanted to secure all of that land you would have needed to plant at least 3-4 cities there earlier. If you had put that new city on the east side of the river I think that would have stopped them from putting any more down there on the coast, but they now can still put one on the far peninsula as you pointed out (and someone eventually will). They can also place a city to the north so you may want to buy up that cotton tile in your coastal cities third ring and/or settle another city up there. Also, you may want to check to see if a city could be placed in the desert between London and your main territory. If they were able to place a city there it would cut off your trade route to London.
RedRover57
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InfoAddict mod allows you to check diplomacy when the AI offers a DoF. I never play without that mod anymore.
NotSure
King
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I just caught up with your vids. This is shaping up to be an interesting challenge. The one thing about continent games is that you can usually count on having most of the civs on other continents staying friendly. With all of the city trading, however, it looks like soon every civ will have a grievance with one another and your civilization may be the most hated in the universe. Good fun! 
Some thoughts...
Lack of coastal capitals is going to make this even more difficult. In the spirit of poor sportsmanship I would have changed the rules as soon as I saw the Fountain of Youth
You had a research agreement with China maturing within about 25 turns and you chose a tech path directly to Dynamite (which looked like more than 25 turns). You didn't direct the research from previous RAs, so it looks like it was dumped into Navigation. Navigation was at one turn. If you researched Navigation and Acoustics before Military Science it looks like you could have shaved off an additional 6-8 turns of research.
Do you think you still need that scout there? Seems possible, but unlikely that the AI would settle that spot at this point and you could probably use a better look at the other continent soon?
Some thoughts...
Lack of coastal capitals is going to make this even more difficult. In the spirit of poor sportsmanship I would have changed the rules as soon as I saw the Fountain of Youth
You had a research agreement with China maturing within about 25 turns and you chose a tech path directly to Dynamite (which looked like more than 25 turns). You didn't direct the research from previous RAs, so it looks like it was dumped into Navigation. Navigation was at one turn. If you researched Navigation and Acoustics before Military Science it looks like you could have shaved off an additional 6-8 turns of research.
Do you think you still need that scout there? Seems possible, but unlikely that the AI would settle that spot at this point and you could probably use a better look at the other continent soon?
buzzdowan
Warlord
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Hi NotSure,
This is my second play of city trader concept. The first game I played for myself to see the dynamics. I noticed more politics and more turnarounds, meaning that an AI who was beaten came back into the game. This would be even better if AI would know how to annex cities. In my previous game I had china with enormous amount of cash and all cities puppeted. They built buildings when they needed units?! Another weird situation was, when I payed an insane amount for open borders to a hostile AI. I needed access to the last capital, which was in the middle of continent.
The point whole point of these special rules is: "Instead of giving extreme bonuses to not-so-clever-AI, let us impose some extra limitations onto human player, so that even a simple AI would be a serious threat."
You are right about my research strategy. I admit I am a poor player in this area. I simply disregard median shifting. It is a waste I know. I hope it is not distracting too much.
This is my second play of city trader concept. The first game I played for myself to see the dynamics. I noticed more politics and more turnarounds, meaning that an AI who was beaten came back into the game. This would be even better if AI would know how to annex cities. In my previous game I had china with enormous amount of cash and all cities puppeted. They built buildings when they needed units?! Another weird situation was, when I payed an insane amount for open borders to a hostile AI. I needed access to the last capital, which was in the middle of continent.
The point whole point of these special rules is: "Instead of giving extreme bonuses to not-so-clever-AI, let us impose some extra limitations onto human player, so that even a simple AI would be a serious threat."
You are right about my research strategy. I admit I am a poor player in this area. I simply disregard median shifting. It is a waste I know. I hope it is not distracting too much.
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