Bz3 - Always War Crusade

[betazed]

Scratched.

 

[NewDestroyer]

check agian

 

[Snaproll]

Before my first turn starts, I up luxuries to stop disorder.

???? Beijing didn't need more luxuries - it had 3 happy, 1 content, and 3 unhappy when I left it

 

[NewDestroyer]

it was a glitch then cuz i restarted the save file 3 times and every time it went into disorder

 

[betazed]

Errr.... I loaded Snap's save and pressed spacebar. Capital did not go into disorder. Anyway, no matter.

EDIT: IMO, also the settler should have gone North instead of East. We know north is the safe ground. Since this is AW we cannot just blindly go for maximum land grab. Instead We should settle maximum number of safe cities ASAP. Land grab will come with war. Had the settler gone north by this time we would have had a third city.

 

[Earp]

All of this food around us and we only have two cities after 43 turns?

2550BC is turn 30. 2030BC is turn 43. Someone played more than ten turns.

 

[NewDestroyer]

i was wondering who let our granary empty w/o 1 settler?

 

[betazed]

I am calling for a time out here. please no finger-pointing and accusing. (My bad if I sense some of that if there is none. But I do sense it.) That is a strict

When a city grows to size 7 the granary automatically empties. We should not let that happen. Our start has not been perfect but nothing disastrous. Let's just churn out settlers and defend to the best of capabilities till we get to Chivalry. That's all we have to do. Shouldn't be that tough.

 

[Earp]

With the cows north and south of Beijing, why have we sent our settlers east and west?

I think the warrior in Beijing should be switched to a settler. We shouldn't let Beijing get over size 6. The granary empties when it gets to size 7. Beijing is our settler factory. The other cities can produce workers/military. Shanghai should produce a barracks and walls. We need more vet troops so they can upgrade to elite and we can generate leaders.

How about this for an initial dotmap. I guess I suggest that we use the settler on the site I would have settled fourth.

 

[betazed]

I agree.

Guides for SAAM - our next player
Move citizen to grassland. Settle active settler at 4. Change Beijing to settler. When that finishes send it to 1.

Also should we speed up writing?

 

[NewDestroyer]

no, same rate throughout us making money

 

[Snaproll]

I am calling for a time out here. please no finger-pointing and accusing. (My bad if I sense some of that if there is none. But I do sense it.) That is a strict

I agree entirely, betazed. There have been some mistakes made, and I admit some of them have been mine. That's the nature of succession games - in fact that's why we play them to a certain extent - to learn from others and to teach others when they make mistakes. I didn't mean to point fingers when I questioned the disorder thing - I was honestly just confused.

As for the Iron Working/Writing decision, my thought process was that we could build up enough money to buy it from the next civ we meet, since the AI is far more liekly to research IW than it is writing. I actually though we would get IW SOONER this way, ut upon further reflection, I realize we probably should have just researched it. My bad. That's the reason I'm playing this game - I consider both Earp and Betazed to be stronger players than I am, and therefore, I have learned a lesson from them.

As for emptying the granary, that was my fault. I should have built the settler before I built it's escort - normally you don't because it causes the escort to be built slower, and the settler has to just sit in the city and wait for it to be built, or else go undefended. In this case, it was the wrong move, again. I am sorry for my mistakes, but I believe we are still in ok shape.

 

[Earp]

I don't consider myself a better player than any of you all. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses that we developed playing on our own. Some people are good at diplomacy, others are good at MM cities, still others are good at warmongering, etc. One of the things that I like about SGs is that the discussion and sharing of ideas allows the game to be played at a higher level than we could each play on our own. This teamwork will be very important during this game.

I think our main problem so far is a teamwork problem and not an individual problem. We have all jumped into this SG excitedly, but without enough planning.

I think most people would find an AW on Monarch extremely difficult. The fact that we are attempting it on Emperor makes our task that much more challenging, and we are going to need lots of communication to be able to pull this off. We need to share ideas on which techs we want to research and in what order. We need to discuss wonders and place them in a priority order so that we know which ones to build as we generate leaders. We need to discuss our military strategy so that we know which units to build and how to use these units. We need to determine where we want to found cities and in what order.

We need to share ideas. If you disagree with something, please speak up. If you do not understand the reasoning behind something, please say so. If you have a different idea, please share it.

Thoughts?

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Earp


I think our main problem so far is a teamwork problem and not an individual problem. We have all jumped into this SG excitedly, but without enough planning.

I agree completely.

So my suggestion to all players would be whenerver in doubt (about what to research, where to place a new city, what to do with the leader etc.), stop. Put a sreenshot here and ask questions and we will discuss what to do next.

Bz2 was more difficult than Bz1. And this is an order of magnitude difficult than Bz2. But we are still far from losing this game. A little teamwork and luck and we will pull it off.

P.S. As for me being a better player than Snap - Snap you should take a look at the beginning of Bz1. I used to irrigate plains in despotism. But playing that SG with Earp, and a few other taught me a lot. At least I do not irrigate plains in Despotism anymore.

EDIT: @SAAM: Where are you? Please post a got it.

 

[Earp]

Originally posted by betazed

I used to irrigate plains in despotism. But playing that SG with Earp, and a few other taught me a lot. At least I do not irrigate plains in Despotism anymore.

It is okay to irrigate plains in Despotism. It's irrigating grassland that doesn't give you a benefit under Despotism.

We need to share ideas on which techs we want to research and in what order.

I think we need IW and The Wheel at max research as our next two techs.

We need to discuss wonders and place them in a priority order so that we know which ones to build as we generate leaders.

Everyone agrees that we should build the Great Library if available. I think we should also try to get the Great Wall for its defensive bonuses. Sun Tzu would be very nice once we get to the Middle Ages. I do not think we should save any leaders waiting for a wonder to become available. We should use them as we generate them.

We need to discuss our military strategy so that we know which units to build and how to use these units.

I think our initial strategy will be entirely defensive as we fend off waves of Koreans. We should build walls and barracks in our frontline cities. We need vet troops. The best defensive strategy is to fight with combined arms. We will need a mixture of warriors(upgraded to swordsmen/MDI), horsemen(upgraded to Riders), catapults, and spearmen. I think archers are of less benefit to us at this point. Horsemen will be good for several reasons. They are able to retreat, they will upgrade to our UU, and they can cover lots of territory to address threats from different directions. I do not think we will even think about being an offensive war until we have riders.

We need to determine where we want to found cities and in what order.

Does anyone have any comments on the dotmap I posted? We made want to change it when we can see more of the map and know where horses and iron are. Speaking of iron, we do not have many hills or mountains nearby....

Any thoughts?

 

[betazed]

I think there is low probability of having iron in our current territory. There is only one mountain and another two will be in range soon. If we do not have iron in them then we have to rely on horses since the other set of hill and mountains are a bit far off.

However, a lot of map is unexplored (even in our immediate neighbourhoods). So I am optimistic.

BTW, if SAAM does not post a got it by today evening (24 hour period runs out then) then he should be skipped for this turn and Earp should take it.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Sorry guys. Didnt know I was up. Consider this my "got it"

 

[Earp]

SAAM, here are some of my suggestions.

1. Found our third city one tile south of where settler is standing.
2. Change Beijing's production to Settler. When produced, send that settler to found our fourth city north of the BG, north of Beijing. Beijing will be able to produce a settler every four turns from now on. Be sure to change Beijing's citizens to work grasslands as the city grows. This will keep it at +5 food. We want it to be size 5, size 5, size 6, size 6 and produce settler.
3. Change Shanghai's production to walls and then build a barracks. We need vet troops and Korea seems to be most interested in Shanghai.
4. Use our second, third, fourth, etc. cities to produce workers/military. Shanghai should be our settler factory.

edit:Here are some more thoughts
5. Any city founded on the front lines with Korea should produce walls before anything else.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Emerging from the river, there came a Penguin. A Genocidal Penguin. He was determined to kill whoever and whatever he could.
To Do: Move citizen to grassland. Done. Settle active settler at 4.Next turn. Change Beijing to settler. When that finishes send it to 1. Due in 3.
T1: Canton founded on Site 4. Warrior due in 10.
T2: Beijing: Settler (to site One)-> Warrior. Shanghai: Warrior->Rax (I assume we are doing upgrades?)
T3: Nil
T4: Warrior sneaking around Seoul killed by archer. Beijing: Warrior->Rax (a note to all: be sure to MM Beijing so that the worker stays off the mountain. This isnt Haiku. "
The Mountain and I/Sitting together, until only/The Mountain remains"
Just a Haiku interlude.
T5: Nanking founded on Site One.
T6: Beijing grows and I MM for the plains. Stupid mountain...
T7: Beijing: Rax->Warrior. Canton: Warrior->Rax
T8: Nihil
T9: I see a large stack of Korean units heading North. Beijing:Warrior->Spear. Shanghai: Rax->Archer
T10: Nanking: Warrior->Warrior 3/3 Warrior v 3/3 Warrior. Dies...
I didnt do any settler building on these turns, more like Rax building. I left research @ writing and no matter how much it was upped it made no difference. I've never really done AWs.. Hope this didnt screw things up.

The Save

 

[Earp]

I've got it. I'll play my turns this evening. Any suggestions before I begin?