Bz3 - Always War Crusade
- Thread starter betazed
- Start date
NewDestroyer
Vegetto
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Messages
- 406
some1 post the turn order plz so i know when to expect to go
Stuck_as_a_Mac
Aptenodytes forsteri
Is it too late for a Genocidal Penguin to take part in this? 
NewDestroyer
Vegetto
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Messages
- 406
dude post ur final 4 turns for that other sg we got goin, we wanna keep it moving 
0 - 4000 BC
Site looks good. 3BGs and a wheat in our initial 9 squares.
Found Beijing. Set build orders for a warrior.
Our site looks even better.
Set research for pottery at max.
Move worker E to Wheat.
Since we have two Wheats, we should mine one of them to be at +5 food in Despotism. If we irrigate both, we will be at +6 food and our growth rate will be the same as if we were at +5 food.
Here is how I know we will be at +5 food.
City square - The food in this square is not consumed by a citizen. This square provides +2 food.
Grassland squares - The bonus and normal grasslands provide 2 food whether we mine or irrigate them in despotism. The two food is enough to feed the citizen that is working them. Thus they provide +0 food.
Grassland with Wheat squares These squares have a base of 3 food. 2 of those food go to the citizen working the square. The square has a base of +1 food without irrigation. Irrigation increases this to +2 food.
City square - +2 food
Grassland squares - +0 food
Grassland with Wheat square (mined) - +1 food
Grassland with Wheat square (irrigated) - +2 food
1 - 3950 BC
I decide to mine this wheat. This will allow us to produce our warriors sooner. Our first warrior will be produced on the turn that we grow and we will not have to increase the slider.
2 - 3900 BC
zzzz
3 - 3850 BC
zzzz
4 - 3800 BC
Mine done, begin road. I love Industrious workers.
5 - 3750 BC
zzzz
6 - 3700 BC
Worker done, moves N to mountain. I want to get to the BG north of Beijing. I can get there by moving W, NW, or N. Moving to the mountain to the north will allow me to see more terrain.
7 - 3650 BC
Beijing Warrior --> Warrior
Beijing grows. Fortify warrior instead of increasing luxuries.
Worker moves W to BG. Normally, I would improve the BGs on the river first(because of the extra gold), but this BG will allow us to get to the second wheat quicker.
8 - 3600 BC
Worker starts road.
9 - 3550 BC
zzzz
10 - 3500 BC
Worker moves W to irrigate and road Wheat.
I think we should start a pre-build for a granary after we build this warrior.
We have the most food rich start I have ever seen. We have 4 more bonus resources one square outside our city radius.
The SAVE
Site looks good. 3BGs and a wheat in our initial 9 squares.
Found Beijing. Set build orders for a warrior.
Our site looks even better.
Set research for pottery at max.
Move worker E to Wheat.
Since we have two Wheats, we should mine one of them to be at +5 food in Despotism. If we irrigate both, we will be at +6 food and our growth rate will be the same as if we were at +5 food.
Here is how I know we will be at +5 food.
City square - The food in this square is not consumed by a citizen. This square provides +2 food.
Grassland squares - The bonus and normal grasslands provide 2 food whether we mine or irrigate them in despotism. The two food is enough to feed the citizen that is working them. Thus they provide +0 food.
Grassland with Wheat squares These squares have a base of 3 food. 2 of those food go to the citizen working the square. The square has a base of +1 food without irrigation. Irrigation increases this to +2 food.
City square - +2 food
Grassland squares - +0 food
Grassland with Wheat square (mined) - +1 food
Grassland with Wheat square (irrigated) - +2 food
1 - 3950 BC
I decide to mine this wheat. This will allow us to produce our warriors sooner. Our first warrior will be produced on the turn that we grow and we will not have to increase the slider.
2 - 3900 BC
zzzz
3 - 3850 BC
zzzz
4 - 3800 BC
Mine done, begin road. I love Industrious workers.
5 - 3750 BC
zzzz
6 - 3700 BC
Worker done, moves N to mountain. I want to get to the BG north of Beijing. I can get there by moving W, NW, or N. Moving to the mountain to the north will allow me to see more terrain.
7 - 3650 BC
Beijing Warrior --> Warrior
Beijing grows. Fortify warrior instead of increasing luxuries.
Worker moves W to BG. Normally, I would improve the BGs on the river first(because of the extra gold), but this BG will allow us to get to the second wheat quicker.
8 - 3600 BC
Worker starts road.
9 - 3550 BC
zzzz
10 - 3500 BC
Worker moves W to irrigate and road Wheat.
I think we should start a pre-build for a granary after we build this warrior.
We have the most food rich start I have ever seen. We have 4 more bonus resources one square outside our city radius.
The SAVE
betazed
Seeking...
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- May 9, 2003
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3450 BC: - Beijing Warrior -> Warrior. One warrior goes out to explore just the immediate surroundings so that we know where to send our next settler. Worker starts Irrigation.
3400 BC - zzz
3350 BC - Beijing grows. Lux to 10%
3300 BC - Workers starts mine.
3250 BC - Warrior forms in Beijing. Reduce lux and science. We kame +7 gold this turn. Start Barracks.
3200 BC - Pottery discovered. Start BW at no deficit in 15 turns. Change barracks to granary.
3150 BC - zzz
3100 BC - worker finishes mine. Lux to 10% again.
3050 BC - zzz
3000 BC - Worker starts mine.
Pretty uneventful set of turns. The warrior has explored the immediate neigbourhood. he should be pulled back. The starting location looks really good. We have lots of food and some shields and we have ocean on one side. So we will have to defend only on one side strongly.
Remember not to send out settlers without escort in this one (like we can do in the otehr current SGs).
The save
3400 BC - zzz
3350 BC - Beijing grows. Lux to 10%
3300 BC - Workers starts mine.
3250 BC - Warrior forms in Beijing. Reduce lux and science. We kame +7 gold this turn. Start Barracks.
3200 BC - Pottery discovered. Start BW at no deficit in 15 turns. Change barracks to granary.
3150 BC - zzz
3100 BC - worker finishes mine. Lux to 10% again.
3050 BC - zzz
3000 BC - Worker starts mine.
Pretty uneventful set of turns. The warrior has explored the immediate neigbourhood. he should be pulled back. The starting location looks really good. We have lots of food and some shields and we have ocean on one side. So we will have to defend only on one side strongly.
Remember not to send out settlers without escort in this one (like we can do in the otehr current SGs).
The save
Here are the Always War rules from Realms Beyond.
You must declare war on all opponents on the turn you make contact. You may acquire tech, contacts or map information prior to declaring war, but you must pay up front: no deals involving any kind of per-turn payments. You may never, ever make peace with any opponent. Until you control all of the earth or are wiped from the earth, there will always be war without end.
I assume we are following these rules. Betazed, you might want to put these in the first post.
Here are some points I have picked up from reading Always War games.
#1 Instead of sending our warrior out in a straight line to explore and meet civs, I think we should explore in a semi-circular pattern.
#2 We need to try to buy techs and maps from civs before declaring war on them at the end of the turn. We may have to take some deals that normally would be too poor to consider(Such as our WM for their TM).
#3 Build walls in all cities. We will probably have a defensive line of cities that will be under constant attack.
#4 We want to research mathematics ASAP because catapults will be a big benefit defensively.
#5 If possible, build cities on hills.
#6 We are going to be getting lots of leaders.
#7 A large road network will be very beneficial to our defensive efforts.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
You must declare war on all opponents on the turn you make contact. You may acquire tech, contacts or map information prior to declaring war, but you must pay up front: no deals involving any kind of per-turn payments. You may never, ever make peace with any opponent. Until you control all of the earth or are wiped from the earth, there will always be war without end.
I assume we are following these rules. Betazed, you might want to put these in the first post.
Here are some points I have picked up from reading Always War games.
#1 Instead of sending our warrior out in a straight line to explore and meet civs, I think we should explore in a semi-circular pattern.
#2 We need to try to buy techs and maps from civs before declaring war on them at the end of the turn. We may have to take some deals that normally would be too poor to consider(Such as our WM for their TM).
#3 Build walls in all cities. We will probably have a defensive line of cities that will be under constant attack.
#4 We want to research mathematics ASAP because catapults will be a big benefit defensively.
#5 If possible, build cities on hills.
#6 We are going to be getting lots of leaders.
#7 A large road network will be very beneficial to our defensive efforts.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
betazed
Seeking...
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Adding to Earp's thoughts:
After researching IW, we should make a beeline for Lit. If and when we get a leader we should build GL. That would really help us a lot. We will not need to research anything till Chivalry and after that when we start to attack the AI will have a tech pace slow enough for us to keep up with.
If we do not get the GL then we have to research on own own. In that case there is a possibility that we will be fighting off Cavalry with Pikes. Not a happy scenario.
The second leader should build the Pyramids or better still Suntzu. If possible. But we should definitely not store our second leader. We should use it immediately. If no wonder is available build an army.
And of course, switch to Monarchy the moment we have it.
After researching IW, we should make a beeline for Lit. If and when we get a leader we should build GL. That would really help us a lot. We will not need to research anything till Chivalry and after that when we start to attack the AI will have a tech pace slow enough for us to keep up with.
If we do not get the GL then we have to research on own own. In that case there is a possibility that we will be fighting off Cavalry with Pikes. Not a happy scenario.
The second leader should build the Pyramids or better still Suntzu. If possible. But we should definitely not store our second leader. We should use it immediately. If no wonder is available build an army.
And of course, switch to Monarchy the moment we have it.
The Great Library would be very nice, but I've read reports where people won without it. It would be nice to get enough early leaders to get several ancient wonders.
I think the Great Wall wonder may be more useful than normal. Doubling the effects of city walls will be very nice. And playing as China, it would be very appropriate.
Is everyone familiar with how to effectively use combined arms? We will be fending off many more units than we have ourselves and an effective defense will be a key to our survival. Here is my understanding of combined arms. Attack a stack of defenders initially with catapults(if available). Use swordsmen next until only one defender is left. Take out the last defender with a horseman and then move the horseman back to safety. The idea is to try to leave as few units as possible exposed to AI counterattacks. At the beginning of each turn, you have to evaluate the threats and determine which attackers you want to take out.
I think the Great Wall wonder may be more useful than normal. Doubling the effects of city walls will be very nice. And playing as China, it would be very appropriate.
Is everyone familiar with how to effectively use combined arms? We will be fending off many more units than we have ourselves and an effective defense will be a key to our survival. Here is my understanding of combined arms. Attack a stack of defenders initially with catapults(if available). Use swordsmen next until only one defender is left. Take out the last defender with a horseman and then move the horseman back to safety. The idea is to try to leave as few units as possible exposed to AI counterattacks. At the beginning of each turn, you have to evaluate the threats and determine which attackers you want to take out.
NewDestroyer
Vegetto
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Messages
- 406
are we going to build our cities 3 tiles apart? oh yea 1 question if a unit attack a city w/ a catapult it gets bombarded automatically, my question is if the city has 2 catapults or more does each catapult fire once at the enemy or just the 1st catapult fire?
Yes we need to talk a little about how dense we want to build our cities. 3 tiles apart is good for defensive unit purposes, but that is pretty dense.
You get one bombard on each attacker that attacks a city, up to the number of catapults you have, per turn.
You get one bombard on each attacker that attacks a city, up to the number of catapults you have, per turn.
Turn 0 3000 B.C. (Pre turn) Looking good. Granary in 8 turns (until we expand), +5 food.
Turn 1 2950 B.C. zzz
Turn 2 2900 B.C. - Mine complete, Beijing grows. Granary due in four, and Beijing due to grow in four. Hmmm If I let that happen I believe food box will drain completely. Should I slow down growth? Lux tax to 20%.
Turn 3 2850 B.C. zzz
Turn 4 2800 B.C. Worker moves to remaining bonus grassland. Dyes spotted in the south, about two city distances from Beijing.
Turn 5 2750 B.C. CONTACT! There is a Korean spear right close to us! Uh oh (See screenshot to see where I found him).
The Koreans have Bronze Working and Alphabet, while we are up Masonry and Pottery. Im pretty confident that means we are the only ones hes met also. Trade Masonry and Pottery + 15 gold for the rest of Bronze and Alphabet. Wipes out our treasury.
Oh, the Koreans also have 2 cities to our one. After that trade, its WAR!
I go ahead and delay the growth of Beijing one turn this will allow us to grow faster in the long run. Writing is next up for research I agree that we need to get Lit ASAP. Itll take 40 turns no matter what, though. Hmmm Not sure what to do here. If I go min sci itll take 40 no matter what, but if I keep research on we could possibly get it earlier once we get more cities. Alternatively, I could research CB in 10 turns or Wheel in 20. This may be
, and Im not sure, but I decide to go writing at min. We can use the money to purchase techs from other civs.
2710 B.C. - Granary complete warrior started. The Korean spear moves south, indicating the probable direction of the Korean cities.
Turn 7 2670 B.C. Beijing is size 6 lux to 30%. More wheat found in the south!
Turn 8 2630 B.C. Warrior complete, settler started.
Turn 9 2590 B.C. Two more cows on a river sighted to the SE!! Beijing to size 7 lux can stay at 30%.
Turn 10 2550 B.C. Last BG is mined and roaded, worker moves to river grassland. No Korean units left. We have an incredible area around us, and our first settler is due in 2 turns. Good luck next player!
The Save
Turn 1 2950 B.C. zzz
Turn 2 2900 B.C. - Mine complete, Beijing grows. Granary due in four, and Beijing due to grow in four. Hmmm If I let that happen I believe food box will drain completely. Should I slow down growth? Lux tax to 20%.
Turn 3 2850 B.C. zzz
Turn 4 2800 B.C. Worker moves to remaining bonus grassland. Dyes spotted in the south, about two city distances from Beijing.
Turn 5 2750 B.C. CONTACT! There is a Korean spear right close to us! Uh oh (See screenshot to see where I found him).
The Koreans have Bronze Working and Alphabet, while we are up Masonry and Pottery. Im pretty confident that means we are the only ones hes met also. Trade Masonry and Pottery + 15 gold for the rest of Bronze and Alphabet. Wipes out our treasury.
Oh, the Koreans also have 2 cities to our one. After that trade, its WAR!
I go ahead and delay the growth of Beijing one turn this will allow us to grow faster in the long run. Writing is next up for research I agree that we need to get Lit ASAP. Itll take 40 turns no matter what, though. Hmmm Not sure what to do here. If I go min sci itll take 40 no matter what, but if I keep research on we could possibly get it earlier once we get more cities. Alternatively, I could research CB in 10 turns or Wheel in 20. This may be
, and Im not sure, but I decide to go writing at min. We can use the money to purchase techs from other civs. 2710 B.C. - Granary complete warrior started. The Korean spear moves south, indicating the probable direction of the Korean cities.
Turn 7 2670 B.C. Beijing is size 6 lux to 30%. More wheat found in the south!
Turn 8 2630 B.C. Warrior complete, settler started.
Turn 9 2590 B.C. Two more cows on a river sighted to the SE!! Beijing to size 7 lux can stay at 30%.
Turn 10 2550 B.C. Last BG is mined and roaded, worker moves to river grassland. No Korean units left. We have an incredible area around us, and our first settler is due in 2 turns. Good luck next player!
The Save
betazed
Seeking...
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Wow! I have never seen such a food rich map. This will really help us in the long run.
@Snap - You may want to edit your sig. You are not playing BZ2 anymore.
IMO think we should have researched IW before Writing. Swords will be so much necessary soon. That's what I said in my post above - get to Lit ASAP after IW . Now that we are already 5 turn in it, hopefully we will be able to trade it when we make another contact. But that will also mean another war!
I am in two minds whether the next player should veto the research and start IW at full speed. As we add cities we may be able to get it before we make the second contact.
What does everybody think?
@ND: You are up. Since you are new in this team just a FYI. I always keep the roster in the first post, that way everyone knows who is up and who is on Deck. This way we have fewer posts with who is up etc. clusttering up the main game thread. It might not be bad idea for your Vikings SSG too.
@Snap - You may want to edit your sig. You are not playing BZ2 anymore.
IMO think we should have researched IW before Writing. Swords will be so much necessary soon. That's what I said in my post above - get to Lit ASAP after IW . Now that we are already 5 turn in it, hopefully we will be able to trade it when we make another contact. But that will also mean another war!
I am in two minds whether the next player should veto the research and start IW at full speed. As we add cities we may be able to get it before we make the second contact.
What does everybody think?
@ND: You are up. Since you are new in this team just a FYI. I always keep the roster in the first post, that way everyone knows who is up and who is on Deck. This way we have fewer posts with who is up etc. clusttering up the main game thread. It might not be bad idea for your Vikings SSG too.
Tsukemono5
American Pickle
Comment:
Your most food rich site from what I can see seems to be the square north of the coastal BG. You get the fish, the two cows (one immediately in range, the BG, are on the coast, and have only one tile of overlap with Beijing.
Your most food rich site from what I can see seems to be the square north of the coastal BG. You get the fish, the two cows (one immediately in range, the BG, are on the coast, and have only one tile of overlap with Beijing.
NewDestroyer
Vegetto
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2003
- Messages
- 406
Before my first turn starts, I up luxuries to stop disorder.
1)I wonder what i should do w/ this worker. I decide i should start getting a road out to our next city, because another mine at the capital wouldn't help us because we are mostly going to build spearmen and we would get them just as fast w/ 8 shields instead of 9. I decide to make our next city to the west of us. going to the north would give us a cattle but the one the west gives 2 and eventually 3 bonus grasslands.
2)Move settler to the next city location escorted w/ warrior. warrior moves 1 tile southwest. and move worker 1 tile to the next city. Started work on a settler.
3)Warrior moves sw agian. Settler w/ escort moves closer to city site. Worker begins road to the next city. worker moves 1 tile next to city site. warrior moves west.
4)I found shanghai w/ 1 warrior fortified, starts on warrior, done in 5, worker starts road to connect both cities. The scouting warrior moves sw 1 tile. Beijing finished a settler, I decide to make the next city spot by the 2nd mountain to the south of us /w an escort.
5)Raise luxuries to accomadate the 5th citizen in cap.Biejing has warrior done in 1. Warrior moves sw and finds the koreans lair. We ask for an audience they accept, we find out they have 4 cities including thier capital. then we leave.
6)Biejing Warrior-->Settler. I fortify the new warrior. I decide to bring the worker back around because it will be able to road the next city faster. Damn those koreans! we site 2 korean warriors coming towards us. I immeditaly switch Biejing from settler to warrior.
7)I immeditaly recall our warrior and settler back the way it came and move worker towards roading to a new city site. I move our warrior exploring nw. oh and before the turn ends i raise luxuries so our cap doesn't go into disorder.
8)I move our worker the mined wheat and pray the warrior goes after the capital and not the roading worker. Biejing Warrior-->Warrior. i fortify the new warrior. i move the settler and warrior towards the worker. oh and i move our northern warrior nw.
9)Damn those koreans, they switch route towards shanghai luckily shaghai produces a warrior, (i fortify it of course) and starts making another one. Our scouting warrior has an archer on him i move north west w/ the archer close behind. I move the 3rd warrior from beijing towards shaghai, will get there in 2 turns just as soon as the warriors are able to attack shaghai.
10)Warrior gets to shanghai, beijing warrior--> settler(hope no more warriors come for us, the next person can switch production, if something is up). Our exploring warrior moves nw. Move our warrior/ settler to where the worker is. The worker starts on a road. At last second i decide to move 3rd beijing warrior to shanghai incase 1 warrior dies there.
11)At start of this turn both warrios attack shanghai and 1 warrior takes both out, loses 1 hp and becomes a veteran.
Territory View:
oh and here's the save file: China 2030 B.C.
1)I wonder what i should do w/ this worker. I decide i should start getting a road out to our next city, because another mine at the capital wouldn't help us because we are mostly going to build spearmen and we would get them just as fast w/ 8 shields instead of 9. I decide to make our next city to the west of us. going to the north would give us a cattle but the one the west gives 2 and eventually 3 bonus grasslands.
2)Move settler to the next city location escorted w/ warrior. warrior moves 1 tile southwest. and move worker 1 tile to the next city. Started work on a settler.
3)Warrior moves sw agian. Settler w/ escort moves closer to city site. Worker begins road to the next city. worker moves 1 tile next to city site. warrior moves west.
4)I found shanghai w/ 1 warrior fortified, starts on warrior, done in 5, worker starts road to connect both cities. The scouting warrior moves sw 1 tile. Beijing finished a settler, I decide to make the next city spot by the 2nd mountain to the south of us /w an escort.
5)Raise luxuries to accomadate the 5th citizen in cap.Biejing has warrior done in 1. Warrior moves sw and finds the koreans lair. We ask for an audience they accept, we find out they have 4 cities including thier capital. then we leave.
6)Biejing Warrior-->Settler. I fortify the new warrior. I decide to bring the worker back around because it will be able to road the next city faster. Damn those koreans! we site 2 korean warriors coming towards us. I immeditaly switch Biejing from settler to warrior.
7)I immeditaly recall our warrior and settler back the way it came and move worker towards roading to a new city site. I move our warrior exploring nw. oh and before the turn ends i raise luxuries so our cap doesn't go into disorder.
8)I move our worker the mined wheat and pray the warrior goes after the capital and not the roading worker. Biejing Warrior-->Warrior. i fortify the new warrior. i move the settler and warrior towards the worker. oh and i move our northern warrior nw.
9)Damn those koreans, they switch route towards shanghai luckily shaghai produces a warrior, (i fortify it of course) and starts making another one. Our scouting warrior has an archer on him i move north west w/ the archer close behind. I move the 3rd warrior from beijing towards shaghai, will get there in 2 turns just as soon as the warriors are able to attack shaghai.
10)Warrior gets to shanghai, beijing warrior--> settler(hope no more warriors come for us, the next person can switch production, if something is up). Our exploring warrior moves nw. Move our warrior/ settler to where the worker is. The worker starts on a road. At last second i decide to move 3rd beijing warrior to shanghai incase 1 warrior dies there.
11)At start of this turn both warrios attack shanghai and 1 warrior takes both out, loses 1 hp and becomes a veteran.
Territory View:
oh and here's the save file: China 2030 B.C.
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