C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[strategyonly]

Rubbish,

I know i needed a laugh today, so thx.

I'm going to make Tech Commerce Modifier tags that should allow us to express the Language civics as technological advances, ie the bonuses will remain the same but will come on techs.

Now i like this idea, but CIVPlayer8 is correct below, you need Hydro's comments on this for diplomacy.

Good! But that is only half the battle, before we can remove Language. Do you know of a way to link diplomacy to techs?

Correct, as above.

Like, researching Language would give your civ +1 relations with other civs, trade would give another, etc. similar to how the civic works.

Nice also for diplo.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

I still think slaves should add + crime and/or +disease (and maybe rev) rather than much

OR: For every 10 slaves you get -1 diplo from other nations.

Maybe They'll increase other factors. But I don't like the diplomatic penalty much, too big.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Slave Specialist:
Pros:
•+2 production, +1 , +1 (Base)
•+1 (Caste)
•+1 (Feudal)
•+1 XP (Combat Trial)
•+3 , +1 (Mind Control)
•+1 (Martial Law)
•+1 , +3 (Free Market)
•+1 / (Centralized Labor)
Cons:
•+2 , -1 (Egalitarian)
•+1 , -1 / (Post-Labor)
•+1 (Democracy or Republic)
•+3 , -1 (Socialized Labor)

Yes that looks good.

Settled slaves would have to have slightly different base stats and we would need ways of getting rid of settled slaves at times. With events or changes of civic. Do we still have an emancipation civic - if so that should have some effect also.

I still think slaves should add + crime and/or +disease (and maybe rev) rather than much

Maybe they could add crime and disease but not until later in the game when the difference between the average person and the poor starts to get big enough that there is a real difference in the living standards of slaves and the poor. Same for revolutionary sentiment.

Can we have tech based changes to specialists?

OR: For every 10 slaves you get -1 diplo from other nations.

Don't see this at all - maybe post 1960 where what a nation does internally to its people starts to be a concern to other countries.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Yes that looks good.

Settled slaves would have to have slightly different base stats and we would need ways of getting rid of settled slaves at times. With events or changes of civic. Do we still have an emancipation civic - if so that should have some effect also.

Yes, events and civic changes would offer a chance to free settled slaves. But why should Settled Slaves and regular slaves have different stats? Aren't they all just "slave/serf"?

And at Emancipation, two buildings would be unlocked. One is Local Emancipation, which makes slaves give +5 and - 5 /, and gives +1 and +5 , effectively making the slave specialist "useless" in that city, so they are no longer used. The other building is "Nationwide Emancipation", a National Wonder, which gives + 10 , and a free "Local Emancipation" in all cities.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes, events and civic changes would offer a chance to free settled slaves. But why should Settled Slaves and regular slaves have different stats? Aren't they all just "slave/serf"?

Regular specialists are a whole population, what ever that means, which means you can put them on a farm and get 10 food instead. You can't move settled slaves around, also they will be part populations like units not full populations like settlers. However I am still working on that bit.

And at Emancipation, two buildings would be unlocked. One is Local Emancipation, which makes slaves give +5 and - 5 /, and gives +1 and +5 , effectively making the slave specialist "useless" in that city, so they are no longer used. The other building is "Nationwide Emancipation", a National Wonder, which gives + 10 , and a free "Local Emancipation" in all cities.

Excellent.

 

[bill2505]

Regular specialists are a whole population, what ever that means, which means you can put them on a farm and get 10 food instead. You can't move settled slaves around, also they will be part populations like units not full populations like settlers. However I am still working on that bit.



Excellent.

sorry but the -5 production is the worst idea first because giving a a civic whogives maximum 4 production sometimes 2 (if you have egalitarian) -5 is extreme. second slavery didn t abolished because it was ineffective (in termes to production at least) but economically were outdated .plus keeping the slaves and the population from rebeling would make a sociaty unstable. so may -1 would be enought but many - happinesh

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Regular specialists are a whole population, what ever that means, which means you can put them on a farm and get 10 food instead. You can't move settled slaves around, also they will be part populations like units not full populations like settlers. However I am still working on that bit.



Excellent.

Similar to the way a Worker or whatever works in Civilization:Colonization? Could you use seething from that?

sorry but the -5 production is the worst idea first because giving a a civic whogives maximum 4 production sometimes 2 (if you have egalitarian) -5 is extreme. second slavery didn t abolished because it was ineffective (in termes to production at least) but economically were outdated .plus keeping the slaves and the population from rebeling would make a sociaty unstable. so may -1 would be enought but many - happinesh

Well, you can't really make a specialist no longer able to be used, so if you build Emancipation, free the slaves/serfs/etc., it gives that effect, so you no longer use it.

 

[bill2505]

Similar to the way a Worker or whatever works in Civilization:Colonization? Could you use seething from that?

Well, you can't really make a specialist no longer able to be used, so if you build Emancipation, free the slaves/serfs/etc., it gives that effect, so you no longer use it.

i agree that slavery would be an expansive civic but in terms of money and stability not production

 

[CIVPlayer8]

i agree that slavery would be an expansive civic but in terms of money and stability not production

No no no, we're removing it as a civic, and making it based purely on your specialists, and different combo of civics. Like, if you have Feudal, they'll be Serfs.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am with Hydro on the Language Civics, i like them, infact, i think its one of the BEST Civics there, (no offense) to anyone else that doesn't like them, sorry).

The only part of it i dont like is Ignorance, its just wasting space doing nothing, got to have at least SOMETHING in there . .

You have to start somewhere. And I thought that -/ you piss people off so I left it blank.

Good! But that is only half the battle, before we can remove Language. Do you know of a way to link diplomacy to techs?

Don't you dare remove Language Civic! We need it for the diplomatic effects,

Settled slaves would have to have slightly different base stats and we would need ways of getting rid of settled slaves at times. With events or changes of civic. Do we still have an emancipation civic - if so that should have some effect also.

Yeah Emancipation tech should have a big effect on Slavery.

Yes, events and civic changes would offer a chance to free settled slaves. But why should Settled Slaves and regular slaves have different stats? Aren't they all just "slave/serf"?

And at Emancipation, two buildings would be unlocked. One is Local Emancipation, which makes slaves give +5 and - 5 /, and gives +1 and +5 , effectively making the slave specialist "useless" in that city, so they are no longer used. The other building is "Nationwide Emancipation", a National Wonder, which gives + 10 , and a free "Local Emancipation" in all cities.

Hmm interesting idea.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

You have to start somewhere. And I thought that -/ you piss people off so I left it blank.



Don't you dare remove Language Civic! We need it for the diplomatic effects,

Yeah, I think Ignorance is fine as is. And some people were saying they don't like the civic. I wouldn't remove the civic unless we figured out a way for techs to give + and (Which ls612 is looking into) and for techs to give a relations boost to other civs.

 

[ls612]

Yeah, I think Ignorance is fine as is. And some people were saying they don't like the civic. I wouldn't remove the civic unless we figured out a way for techs to give + and (Which ls612 is looking into) and for techs to give a relations boost to other civs.

The relations part will be a pain, but the Gold and Science should be working reasonably soon, and hopefully I can have those and Culture on the SVN by Christmas.

Edit: I can't make heads or tails of how to do the GameText for these, so it may be slightly longer. I think I bit off a little too much here, but I'll persevere and get this done with the help of the others who are better at this than myself.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Edit: I can't make heads or tails of how to do the GameText for these, so it may be slightly longer. I think I bit off a little too much here, but I'll persevere and get this done with the help of the others who are better at this than myself.

What game text?

 

[CIVPlayer8]

What game text?

I think he's referring to, when you'll research Language, the game displaying "+5% and for the Tech info.

 

[strategyonly]

I think he's referring to, when you'll research Language, the game displaying "+5% and for the Tech info.

Thats all in the Strategy part of the text if you want it there, plus you can add any color to any word you want, when you do TXT stuff. Just look at one you like, then find the TXT where its at and proceed from there, should help, there's another way, but i dont want to get into that now.

 

[Kreatur]

the babarians cant deal with the new civic system. they suffer from massive unhappynes because of to high taxes. i dont know what civics the babarian player runs but it would be better to remove the unhappines for less than 100% research for babarians

 

[ls612]

Thats all in the Strategy part of the text if you want it there, plus you can add any color to any word you want, when you do TXT stuff. Just look at one you like, then find the TXT where its at and proceed from there, should help, there's another way, but i dont want to get into that now.

No, that is built in the CvGameTextMgr class in the DLL. Thunderbrd is helping me get this to work, I should have it ready by the end of the week.

 

[strategyonly]

No, that is built in the CvGameTextMgr class in the DLL. Thunderbrd is helping me get this to work, I should have it ready by the end of the week.

OH, didnt know there was "another" TXT part in the dll.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

the babarians cant deal with the new civic system. they suffer from massive unhappynes because of to high taxes. i dont know what civics the babarian player runs but it would be better to remove the unhappines for less than 100% research for babarians

Hmm.. Could you post a screenshot so I can see what is hurting the Barbarians?

And I'm having another problem with the slave specialist thing. The tag that I'd like to use, the one that lets specialists effect + , doesn't exist. If someone could create it for me, that would be great.

Edit: Calling all history buffs!
What would you consider to be the economy of Ancient Rome? I'm trying to think of another Economy civic to put in between Subsistence and Manorialism, but I'm turning up blank. Any ideas?

 

[GT Ranma]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome#Economy

Hmmm, I think you already got the civics that would cover Rome's Economy in game already.