C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[GT Ranma]

Religion:
OOoh! Here is an idea, just an idea mind you, but it sound like it could be... neato.

Make religion a point based system, like Crime/Fire/ect, where the more religion you have in a city, the more religious buildings you can have in the city. Say, you get 1 point per turn per religion in the city, and say 1 per priest and 2 per GP in the city. At each 100, you can build 1 (ONE) religious building in the city. Each subsequent 100 you can build a new one. So if you have all 2,000 religions in the city you can't just build every religious building and get a huge tech bonus from having 2,000 monasteries. Say, once you hit 500 you can build a bigger version of one of your religion's buildings. ect ect.

*rubs chin* Hmmmmm

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK, I've read the PDF and don't have much to add about civics. I would get rid of the any civics which are an auto upgrade such as the language civics and some of the education civics.

The Immigration mod is Orion Veteran's not mine. We did have it in before but it did not play nice with something else we had in. I have converted it to using the Outcome System but have an error somewhere in the event trigger or event to go with the outcome. All it does is allow you to move population from one city (pop > 10) to another (pop < 7). It comes with AI.

Slavery - I have changed the Slavery mod StrategyOnly added completely. It is still a work in progress and I will need icons soon. The specialist Slaves will still exist, the Settled Slaves Specialist will probably still exist. Settled Citizens will not. There will be a number of outcomes for your captives (civilian and military) which will be available only under slavery.

The problem with Slavery as a civic is that it just does not fit with any existing or proposed civic system.

 

[strategyonly]

The problem with Slavery as a civic is that it just does not fit with any existing or proposed civic system.

Yeah that was one of the early problems i thought about also, because even in today's world, there are more slaves now then there ever where.

 

[Faustmouse]

Maybe you should remove slavery from the civics and just make slave market and slave specialists normal things.
Or is it possible to make civics go obsolete or change them with techs?

 

[strategyonly]

Maybe you should remove slavery from the civics and just make slave market and slave specialists normal things.
Or is it possible to make civics go obsolete or change them with techs?

I think that has been proposed before, and in RL it probably would work, but gamewise, i just dont know for sure, i gave that project over to DH now.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

OK, I've read the PDF and don't have much to add about civics. I would get rid of the any civics which are an auto upgrade such as the language civics and some of the education civics.

I absolutely agree with this. The Language civics being civics are just... bizarre to me. I don't understand why they're a thing. The only choice with them is when to switch. That's kinda-sorta fine in the earlygame (though I'd prefer more choice then, too) but annoying once you get into Classical and beyond. They also exacerbate the rich-get-richer snowballing in tech in a way that seems undesirable.

Overall I agree with most of what ls612 said, except that I think Pacifism is a fine civic to have. If nothing else, it ameliorates the plight of "stranded on an island until Caravels" civs. I also like the Risk/Reward it brings to the table.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Okay, I just went through the WHOLE civics thread, writing down ALL of the key ideas, for future use. It took awhile, heh... But back on subject. Back when my civics were a modmod, I found another mod that made it possible for techs to give + +%s. I wanted to remove Language then, but Hydro reminded me that we still meet them to provide the minus diplomacy in early eras. I'm sure if we found a way around this, it'd be alright with him if we removed the Language category. Also, I know no one is working on this, but I thought I'd like to bring this issue up again from T-Bird:

It's like the various laws... it'd be nice to have a selection tool to determine what you adopt and what you don't along those lines but it would equate to tons of various simple civic options. Perhaps that's the best way to go about it but perhaps we're reaching a point of consideration where we need a whole new game mechanic for these things... something similar to civics but is a simple yes/no option on a list of 'legality' decisions. This kind of setup is beyond me right now but I could see it being useful.

What are everyone's opinion on this? What are the chances of something like this being implemented?

Also, I have been thinking about civics and their buildings. I came up with the idea that each civic provides a free, auto built, building in each city, called "(Civic)Free Market", and this can be used to do even more stuff with civics.

Also, what are everyone's opinions of the civics currently? What is good about them? What needs working on?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Okay, I just went through the WHOLE civics thread, writing down ALL of the key ideas, for future use. It took awhile, heh... But back on subject. Back when my civics were a modmod, I found another mod that made it possible for techs to give + +%s. I wanted to remove Language then, but Hydro reminded me that we still meet them to provide the minus diplomacy in early eras. I'm sure if we found a way around this, it'd be alright with him if we removed the Language category.

I almost forgot about that. In another mod they delt with language by having every type of language as a religion. This worked for diplomacy but it messed up the real religions. originally I had them as buildings but they did not work with diplomacy either. Thus Civs were the only way to go. They may be the Black Sheep of Civics but at least they do the right thing they were ment to do. Which is increase science and culture as well as influence what other civs think of you. There is a method to my madness.

 

[strategyonly]

Also, what are everyone's opinions of the civics currently? What is good about them? What needs working on?

Seems like its missing something (some kind of "spark"), i just at the moment put on hands on it, but i am just like everyone else, the more options/free stuff you get with, the better.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

I wanted to remove Language then, but Hydro reminded me that we still meet them to provide the minus diplomacy in early eras.

Is that really necessary, especially since we have the option to start as minors?

 

[strategyonly]

I wanted to remove Language then, but Hydro reminded me that we still meet them to provide the minus diplomacy in early eras. I'm sure if we found a way around this, it'd be alright with him if we removed the Language category.

I am with Hydro on the Language Civics, i like them, infact, i think its one of the BEST Civics there, (no offense) to anyone else that doesn't like them, sorry).

The only part of it i dont like is Ignorance, its just wasting space doing nothing, got to have at least SOMETHING in there . .

 

[bill2505]

I am with Hydro on the Language Civics, i like them, infact, i think its one of the BEST Civics there, (no offense) to anyone else that doesn't like them, sorry).

The only part of it i dont like is Ignorance, its just wasting space doing nothing, got to have at least SOMETHING in there . .

ignorance should have +1 happines( ignorant people are more happy) but -5 sciense

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

... got to have at least SOMETHING in there . .

Rubbish, every civic category should have a civic with nothing in it just to show the natural state or balance point.

 

[ls612]

I am with Hydro on the Language Civics, i like them, infact, i think its one of the BEST Civics there, (no offense) to anyone else that doesn't like them, sorry).

The only part of it i dont like is Ignorance, its just wasting space doing nothing, got to have at least SOMETHING in there . .

I'm going to make Tech Commerce Modifier tags that should allow us to express the Language civics as technological advances, ie the bonuses will remain the same but will come on techs.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

I'm going to make Tech Commerce Modifier tags that should allow us to express the Language civics as technological advances, ie the bonuses will remain the same but will come on techs.

Good! But that is only half the battle, before we can remove Language. Do you know of a way to link diplomacy to techs?

 

[ls612]

Good! But that is only half the battle, before we can remove Language. Do you know of a way to link diplomacy to techs?

What do you mean? Technologies already unlock diplomatic options.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

What do you mean? Technologies already unlock diplomatic options.

Like, researching Language would give your civ +1 relations with other civs, trade would give another, etc. similar to how the civic works.

 

[ls612]

Like, researching Language would give your civ +1 relations with other civs, trade would give another, etc. similar to how the civic works.

Relations are handled in a rather odd manner, so I don't know about those. However this is going to take some time as it involves save games, so I'll be making a branch with my code and hopefully Koshling can check to make sure I'm doing it correctly before I commit a new DLL.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Slave Specialist:
Pros:
&#8226;+2 production, +1 , +1 (Base)
&#8226;+1 (Caste)
&#8226;+1 (Feudal)
&#8226;+1 XP (Combat Trial)
&#8226;+3 , +1 (Mind Control)
&#8226;+1 (Martial Law)
&#8226;+1 , +3 (Free Market)
&#8226;+1 / (Centralized Labor)
Cons:
&#8226;+2 , -1 (Egalitarian)
&#8226;+1 , -1 / (Post-Labor)
&#8226;+1 (Democracy or Republic)
&#8226;+3 , -1 (Socialized Labor)

 

[Faustmouse]

I still think slaves should add + crime and/or +disease (and maybe rev) rather than much

OR: For every 10 slaves you get -1 diplo from other nations.