C2C - Housing

[Hydromancerx]

IMO this should be the effect anyway via current health/unhealth. It may just be that the overall balance is slightly off, meaning it's too easy to be healthy without all the housing currently. I don't really see the need for a hard-cap mechanism if the health is tuned right.

I have to agree. If health is made so you absolutely need houses to keep from falling into unhealthiness then they will do their job.

Also as Killtech said in the past, having buildings limit population would cripple the AI if they did not know to build the housing buildings. We could have tons of level 1 cities just because they never built a hut. At least with health we know the AI can build health buildings and respond to that factor.

In short the core the to housing is really health and the whole concept that houses keep you out of the elements and houses get better over time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think something is a bit off about the timing of some of the housing buildings (or possibly their prereqs).

Basically I have found in my current game that researching civil engineering was REALLY painful, because it obsoletes all the slums/shanty town era housing buildings. The problem is that their more modern replacements all require power, but when you are researching civil engineering (it's on the bee line to early tanks) you only have fairly limited options for power, which are all vicinity resource dependent. Net result is that only about 20% of my cities are able to build any sort of power station and hence all their houses gets trashed, which is extremely painful.

It's like the authorities decided to demolish all the slums without having anything better so everyone is homeless now!

Sounds like civil engineering should have electricity somewhere in its requirement linage. Or a way to make sure you can have power.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Sounds like civil engineering should have electricity somewhere in its requirement linage. Or a way to make sure you can have power.

Except civil engineering is what lead to electricity . Or at least being able to build big buildings like power plants and dams.

 

[EldrinFal]

Except civil engineering is what lead to electricity . Or at least being able to build big buildings like power plants and dams.

What about making power available with a gas tech / building? Prior to electricity, gas was the predominant fuel to heat and light homes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Hmm. The Modern homes do require electricity tech and the medieval building go obsolete at civil engineering. Seem like I just need to make the obsolete tech farther off.

 

[BlueGenie]

Or like I suggested in the buildings thread: Why not NOT make them obsolete and simply replaced by their more modern counterparts?

Simply put: old houses are still around way after power, or running water, or any other modern amenity, just upgraded to have those amenities when availability and costs allow for it. At least in Europe we still have manors and churches and castles and houses from way back (14th century at least, some are probably older yet) and they are still used, just upgraded with current standard of living.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Or like I suggested in the buildings thread: Why not NOT make them obsolete and simply replaced by their more modern counterparts?

Simply put: old houses are still around way after power, or running water, or any other modern amenity, just upgraded to have those amenities when availability and costs allow for it. At least in Europe we still have manors and churches and castles and houses from way back (14th century at least, some are probably older yet) and they are still used, just upgraded with current standard of living.

I understand this but having medieval housing in the galactic era would be weird. I will just push back the tech it goes obsolete at. Because if you have not upgraded your houses by then, your peoples houses probably fell apart by then.

In fact maybe i should have it increase maintenance or something as time goes on. That way if you keep old houses its harder to maintain them since they are getting so old.= and are falling apart.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I understand this but having medieval housing in the galactic era would be weird. I will just push back the tech it goes obsolete at. Because if you have not upgraded your houses by then, your peoples houses probably fell apart by then.

In fact maybe i should have it increase maintenance or something as time goes on. That way if you keep old houses its harder to maintain them since they are getting so old.= and are falling apart.

Typical of "colonials" don't think a building that is 700 years old is livable. Haven't you heard of renovation.

 

[Koshling]

Typical of "colonials" don't think a building that is 700 years old is livable. Haven't you heard of renovation.

The British aristocracy would beg to differ

 

[Hydromancerx]

Typical of "colonials" don't think a building that is 700 years old is livable. Haven't you heard of renovation.

That's what "maintenance" is for. However if someone is living in a grass hut in the galactic era then there is something wrong (or your on vacation).

 

[EldrinFal]

That's what "maintenance" is for. However if someone is living in a grass hut in the galactic era then there is something wrong (or your on vacation).

Isn't Maintenance supposed to represent taxes & costs that the city pays? Just remove all the benefits, but add like +1 so those old houses become like a city heritage.

Then again, the building roster is awfully dense already.

 

[BlueGenie]

I replied in another thread with:

Well, not really. Just because a world or nation, or even city, has entered the Galactic Era it doesn't necessarily involve the whole populace. I rather think much of the populace would live in squalor, only perchance get some of the benefits the well-to-do citizens reckon is standard. In most cases where nations are highly evolved the cleft between the rich, the well-to-do, and the poor widens. I can very well see a shiny spaceport rise above the city skyline while in it's shadow denizens live with barely running water, no power, and food scrounged from where they can when they can.

In today's modern world there's still people in the "rich" nations that live in bad conditions, no running water, no power, bottom line jobs if any at all. Sure, we're not quite at the Galactic Age yet but if a nation decides it would rather spend it's money elsewhere rather than at increasing living conditions for ALL it's citizens then that's said nations prerogative. You COULD increase maintenance costs for those old shacks but if the nation didn't bother about the people living there it certainly wouldn't bother maintaining it...
What I think could work, as well as being a realistic tactical question, is to add unhappy faces to the run down and outdated housings at the otherwise obsoleting techs (and maybe more on techs further along). That way the nation itself decides where to place it's resources, but at a cost of unhappy and pushed aside citizens who might or might not revolt or riot.

Of course something is wrong if someone lives in grass huts in the galactic era, with the nation because it hasn't upgraded all living conditions. Health would be a problem, and I rather like my idea of techs adding unhappiness to outdated housings.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Isn't Maintenance supposed to represent taxes & costs that the city pays? Just remove all the benefits, but add like +1 so those old houses become like a city heritage.

Then again, the building roster is awfully dense already.

Well I could always have + - for older buildings. It would not be too hard to apply that and then take out the obsolete techs.

Of course something is wrong if someone lives in grass huts in the galactic era, with the nation because it hasn't upgraded all living conditions. Health would be a problem, and I rather like my idea of techs adding unhappiness to outdated housings.

Well some people would be happy to live in "antique" houses so perhaps unhappiness would not be good answer.

 

[bill2505]

Well I could always have + - for older buildings. It would not be too hard to apply that and then take out the obsolete techs.



Well some people would be happy to live in "antique" houses so perhaps unhappiness would not be good answer.

can i ask something . can we make the more population a city has the ore expencive and time consuming(in some extent) will be. this very realistic

 

[Koshling]

can i ask something . can we make the more population a city has the ore expencive and time consuming(in some extent) will be. this very realistic

That would need new mechanics adding to the XML schema and DLL, so while possible it's not as easy (or as easy to have the AI understand what is going on).

On the original suggestion - I would but modifiers on old buidings as newer tech is discovered as has been suggested, but it doesn't have to be the saem for all types. So:

High density outdated - +unhappy, +unhealth
Medium density outdated - +unhappy
Low density outdated - + culture, + maintenance

i.e. - being forced to live in outdated slums without modern amenities causes unhappiness, but choosing to live in old mansions and paying to update their facilities makes perfect sense for the ich (aka low density).

 

[BlueGenie]

Nice Koshling. Great idea. Seconded.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Nice Koshling. Great idea. Seconded.

I agree. Good solution.

EDIT: Those changes have been put on the SVN. Enjoy!

 

[Koshling]

I agree. Good solution.

That can be done with the XML as it is right?

 

[Hydromancerx]

That can be done with the XML as it is right?

Yup. In fact its already done and put on the SVN.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Since I a m going to be adding new prehistoric dwelling I thought I would overhaul this. I have not been happy with the whole replace the old house system. They should work like any other building and have many types of housing. Old existing with the new.

Thus I am going to the housing system. Houses will not give as many benefits but you can have more types. I would also like to mke some of hem more unique and introduce new types of houses such as Mobile Homes, Frat Houses, etc. Stuf that can still co-exist with other housing.

I also want to have some houses that go obsolete. Having a grass hut in the galactic era is a bit weird.

EDIT: Some things I am removing ...

1. Defense penalty. It doesn't not make any sense that houses would provide less protection than any other building such as a shop or factory. thus I am leaving them at neutral.

2. Food storage. Things like Storage Pit would be at the house too so no need to count them twice.

EDIT2: Here is the layout for the obsolete techs.

- Ancient/Classical Houses = Electricity
- Medieval/Renaissance = Civil Engineering
- Industrial/Modern = Megastructure Engineering
- Trans-Human = Launch Arcology

3. Tech Era health benefits were removed however the -health from density was kept. This shoud help make health buildings more important.

Low Density = +0
Medium Density = +1
High Density = +2
Super Density = +3