C2C - Housing

That´s why I threw in the idea to also have buildings affect this balance.

And if we get a volume information to housing attached, one could build more housing to accomdate the social classes you actually have.
If not.. well you wouln´t be screwed. But getting a very specialized city would come at a price, which I like.
 
you say something to the pyramid of sosciety. i hope i understand you right.
if you have one social group that is to big, the nation will strugle ?
but todays germanys sosciety consist to 60 % out of the middle class. And we believe that this big number of medium wealth but good educated persons is the foundation of our political and economic stability. with your argumentation this would be unbalanced. sorry for my bad english

You make a very good point that the healthiest economies are the ones with the strongest middle class... something could be considered there I think to support that notion as in general I agree. The only problem with having too strong a middle class is that you'd have a lack of will to do menial tasks and average societal expectations of living conditions would grow a bit jaded (spoiled) and set up for great frustration and possible rebellion if the quality of life begins to slip.
 
You make a very good point that the healthiest economies are the ones with the strongest middle class... something could be considered there I think to support that notion as in general I agree. The only problem with having too strong a middle class is that you'd have a lack of will to do menial tasks and average societal expectations of living conditions would grow a bit jaded (spoiled) and set up for great frustration and possible rebellion if the quality of life begins to slip.

This is realy complicated to model ingame I think. Because in Germany this problem of people not wanting to do those menial tasks lead to lots of guest workers. So to fully model such a thing one would need to have a good model to integrate immigrants into it as well, including interaction with your border civic.
( would lead to a whole bunch of interestign stuff with culture and rev as well ..but then it gets even more complicated to modell)
 
I briefly looked over the first and last pages, some interesting stuff but one thing that irked me was this chart

Ancient Era / Classical Era
- Low Density | Low Wealth = Hovels
- Low Density | Medium Wealth = Domuses
- Low Density | High Wealth = Villas
- Medium Density | Low Wealth = Insulas
- Medium Density | Medium Wealth = ?
- Medium Density | High Wealth = ?

Medieval Era / Renaissance Era
- Low Density | Low Wealth = Shantys
- Low Density | Medium Wealth = Cottages
- Low Density | High Wealth = Cabins
- Medium Density | Low Wealth = Slums
- Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Commons
- Medium Density | High Wealth = Mansions

Industrial Era / Modern Era
- Low Density | Low Wealth = Ghetto
- Low Density | Medium Wealth = Manufactured Homes
- Low Density | High Wealth = Estates
- Medium Density | Low Wealth = Apartments
- Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Suburbs
- Medium Density | High Wealth = Gated Communities
- High Density | Low Wealth = Projects
- High Density | Medium Wealth = RV Parks
- High Density | High Wealth = Suites

Trans-Human Era / Galactic Era
- Low Density | Low Wealth = Dugouts
- Low Density | Medium Wealth = Smart Homes
- Low Density | High Wealth = Chateau
- Medium Density | Low Wealth = Modular Highrise
- Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Modular Homes
- Medium Density | High Wealth = High-tech Manor
- High Density | Low Wealth = Refugee Camps
- High Density | Medium Wealth = Time Shares
- High Density | High Wealth = Holochambers
- Super Density | Low Wealth = Arcology Slums
- Super Density | Medium Wealth = Arcology Suburbs
- Super Density | High Wealth = Arcology Upperclass
In the Industrial Modern Era specifically I feel it should be like this
- Low Density | Low Wealth = Subsidized Housing
- Low Density | Medium Wealth = Suburbs
- Low Density | High Wealth = Estates
- Medium Density | Low Wealth = Slums
- Medium Density | Medium Wealth = Semi-detached Housing
- Medium Density | High Wealth = Gated Communities
- High Density | Low Wealth = Ghetto
- High Density | Medium Wealth = Apartments
- High Density | High Wealth = Suites

Also Lower Wealth and higher density should add to crime, and perhaps do something to make enemy espionage more effective. Communism should also effect the housing in some way, as it removes the class system (In theory) I would think it would hurt the gold income but perhaps help the hammers.
 
So I have been rethinking the housing situation again. Perhaps rather than building each house they can auto-build themselves however like in say Sims City you have to place down a residential zone for them.

I have not figured out a good way for them to be made nor do a really care for the residential zone choice that much.

Another ideas would be make houses like Cottages in that they can grow over time or at least get upgraded over time. Thus having them have a city size requirement to them.

The huts are one of the biggest problems since there are so many types of huts and they don't really fit well with the other buildings. :mad:
 
Would it be possible to make new 'housing' replace obsolete 'housing'? Thus, per the chart above, if you build Shanties, you replace Hovels? This would avoid the problem of players taking a large economic hit when they research the tech that obsoletes older buildings - at present, researching Architecture can really dent your production and economy because of it obsoleting all the prehistoric housing.
 
- Low Density | Low Wealth = Subsidized Housing
- High Density | Low Wealth = Ghetto

- Low Density | Low Wealth = Ghetto
- High Density | Low Wealth = Projects

How about we mix those two ideas and get rid of the Ghettos? If anything, Ghettos should be a Fascist and maybe a Nationalist civic building (not connected to the housing system).
 
the meaning of the word ghetto has changed over the years. a ghetto is a place where the poorest of the poor life. however a nation should have no benefits from biulding it at all. ghettos generate crime, despair and epidemics. the fact that something like that exist in a country is a shame and every government that don't do anything possible against the fact that persons are forced to life under such circumstances commit a crime against their population.

The question is how to simulate wealth an poverty in C2C. ghettos could be auto biuld if the wealth of a nation isn't shared properly
but as long as there is no mechanic i dont have a clue how to moddel this
 
I like the idea of Kreatur... Maybe housing should be similar to crime:

- Housing is build by its own

-There are basically two parameters (beside Techs):
1)Population of the city
2)Wealth of the city

The first one is already implented
The second one is afected by trade routes, exportes, resources like hats, shoes etc (to make the mas resources which every civ has and you can't really use them more benefical)

This way, you could get ghettos for example a penalty for the city, as they increase crime, illness and :(.

Problem there: A city rarely has only one form of housing... Any ideas for that?
 
All houses now build themselves when their requirements are met. Also added "Homeless" pseudo building if you do not have any houses built.

Needs major testing to see if it works. Please give feedback!

Please consider removing the additional Crime from housing if they are going to auto-build. Keeping up with crime from population is hard enough.
 
I kinda like that idea of having sudden hidden crime variables popping up like that though... crime's too easy to maintain last I played.

This is a really neat way to handle this Hydro! I'm looking forward to my next game when I can evaluate it. Shouldn't homelessness come from other factors outside of simply housing being unavailable though? I mean, there's lots of homeless and plenty of housing.
 
Please consider removing the additional Crime from housing if they are going to auto-build. Keeping up with crime from population is hard enough.

Its there for additional balance since cities naturally have both slums and upper class neighborhoods. Its port or less a supplement to the crime already made by the city size.

This is a really neat way to handle this Hydro! I'm looking forward to my next game when I can evaluate it. Shouldn't homelessness come from other factors outside of simply housing being unavailable though? I mean, there's lots of homeless and plenty of housing.

Possibly, but we don't have a way to measure that yet. If we had homes vs population then maybe. Same with jobs vs unemployed. However I have not found a good way to measure those.
 
In Sim City you only have a limited area on which to build your city. This leads to the player having to prioritize what to build. Also buildings cost money. In c2c cities do not have any kind of restrictions. You can (and should, I think) build (nearly) every building in every city.

How about making buildings take up space in the city? Let me explain.

Every city gets a "Building space" (BS) attribute, according to the following example (most likely needs serious thought and adjustments accordingly):

  • Base: 10
  • By population: +2 per city size increase (cumulative) (So city size 1: BS 12 size 2: BS 14 (+2) size 3: BS 18 (+4) size 4: BS 24 (+6) and so on)
  • By technology: Certain techs could unlock more land to build, either by making more areas accessible, or by allowing more buildings on the same space, or by building vertically. Such techs should either add a fixed amount of extra space, or multiply the current BS by a fixed number.

The current building space number could be visible right under the numbers for how many wonders your city could build.

Now, every building in the game gets a size number attached to it. This number gets larger the more space the building takes up. Some examples to follow.

  • Building size 0: Buildings not taking up city space (berry bushes, fishing boats, and such "buildings" that more represents represents other things/ideas, such as the Walkabout, Knowledge Inheritance and so on, or buildings built outside the city core, like farms, or all other things that are not buildings, like Road signs, Trail path and so on).
  • Building size 1: The smallest type of building, like huts.
  • Building size 2: Buildings that need more space to operate, like most early manufacturing facilities, like Stone Tools Workshop and Forge.
  • Building size 3: This is where buildings need lots of room to operate, like Markets, Barracks.
  • Building size 4-10: Really large constructions, like wonders, factories...

Some buildings could also scale in size depending on the size of the city (or possibly the total of all your empires city sizes). You need more factories to satisfy demand in larger cities, for example.

With this system in place, you need to really prioritize your cities. Not every city can produce everything anymore.

But why stop there? In addition to size, buildings of size 1 or above can also have an attribute that determines its use, like in Sim City: Residential, Commercial or Industrial. In this system, you could designate a percentage of the city BS to be allowed to build R/C/I buildings on. In a system like this, you could calculate total R building size divided by total C and I building size to get a number for the employed/unemployed. More jobs than population: some C/I buildings may stop operating, but the people are happy. More population than jobs: as more citizens are unemployed, the city gets a penalty to wealth (payments in social security) and an increase in crime and unhappiness and unhealthiness and possibly even riots. To reduce unemployment, build more C/I buildings, or raze some R buildings, forcing people to either move to another city, or to become Barbarian units, or possibly even by making them into Settlers.

If you want to get really advanced, you can define how many Sims live/operate in each building according to its size, at which point homes vs population is easy to calculate. You could also hard-code a priority number to buildings, so that if not all buildings can operate, the once with lowest priority gets shut down first.
 
Bad idea. Looks like force player to build military units in small cities because he would not have place for many buildings
 
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