C2C: Promotions

[Thunderbrd]

It was the new concepts of enabling healing (without enabling complete immunity) on particular damaging terrain types and increasing healing rates when fortified (whether on particular terrains or not!)

I've been considering a number of added 'fortification' abilities lately... just something I'm pondering at this point.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have been considering allowing recon and hunter units to build an improvement which makes them safe until they heal by claiming the plot. The plot would only remain claimed while the unit is on it and not healed. Only injured units say over 50% down, could build it. Terrain damage does not happen on the plots inside your territory.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have been considering allowing recon and hunter units to build an improvement which makes them safe until they heal by claiming the plot. The plot would only remain claimed while the unit is on it and not healed. Only injured units say over 50% down, could build it. Terrain damage does not happen on the plots inside your territory.

THAT is a very cool idea! Of course it wouldn't keep them safe from barbarian attacks but it would by default make them safe from animals. So that other nations can't use it... perhaps some simple python should make the improvement get removed as soon as they move on.

And they'd really have to be able to build them rather quickly to make it work (not 1 round fast maybe but no more than a few or they'd often die before they could hunker down in it.)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

My current idea is to have the unit be stuck for 6 turns say. The first two claiming the plot. The next 4 healing. Then the plot gets unowned. I would probably need some stuff for the actual heal rate and if the unit is attacked and dies or withdraws then the plot should revert anyway.

 

[Yudishtira]

With promotions vs. "non-animal barbarians" (eg. Sophistication I), does that include HNs?

 

[Thunderbrd]

With promotions vs. "non-animal barbarians" (eg. Sophistication I), does that include HNs?

No, not Hidden Nationality, yes Homo Neanderthalensis.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

No, not Hidden Immunity, yes Homo Neanderthalensis.

Hidden Nationality I assume, not Hidden Immunity.

 

[Yudishtira]

No, not Hidden Nationality, yes Homo Neanderthalensis.

I had to ask, since the AI is taking it rather a lot, considering there have been no barbs (but lots of warlords and dragon ships) since centuries before the promo was introduced.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I had to ask, since the AI is taking it rather a lot, considering there have been no barbs (but lots of warlords and dragon ships) since centuries before the promo was introduced.

I should probably make it less attractive by era but I'm never sure when some other barb threats may rise. Either that or take a multi-pronged approach such as to make it more desireable in the Prehistoric then a little less in the Ancient then further weight for how many barb battles have taken place (I'm not sure if that's tracked anywhere - I'd have to either setup a counter or ask Koshling if it is already there.)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Got early naval vessels getting the option to have the Throwing promo (sidestep 1). Is that right?

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I can see why it's possible but it's not 'right' no. Thanks for pointing that out. Will be repaired.

EDIT: Fixed (keep these edit notes comin!)

 

[climat]

Throwing units can't get City Raider I but can get City Raider V?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Interesting... I'll look into why that might be showing like that and it MAY be a problem with the pedia more than with actual access. That hasn't been perfected to new methods yet I don't think.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Again questions about early naval units promos.

Forward observer? 1st screenie 5% withdrawal makes sense, but 15% vs Explorer?

And

Amphibious? 2nd screenie, since when does a ship get penalties for crossing a river? Or what do they attack on the coast when they have no cannon or similar weaponry?

Edit: Also my ships get Bamboo Armor promo if that bldg has been built in the city They get built in/come from. Is this intended too?

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Amphibious shouldn't be there. Forward Observer I'm not sure about as a whole and I think may need some rebalancing perhaps but would be valid as there are explorer naval vessels (Pretty sure they are since they are Recons) including Canoes, Outriggers and Caravels (though there aren't any in the steam and after eras.)

 

[JosEPh_II]

My impression/memory was when Forward Observer was introduced it was a Land unit Only Promo. Was never intended for Sea units.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Of course its a matter of whether it applies. There are, strategically at least, forward observers in fleets so it IS a naval strategy.

Then again, this means anti-explorer? I realize we do need a clear line of anti-explorer (or vs scout and vs hunter) promos - I'm just not sure this is really 'it' from a strategic consideration of what it means to be a forward observer. I dunno... maybe. I'm a little on the fence. I'm thinking that if we keep it as is it would be good to give it a few more layers so it becomes something a unit can really specialize in rather than a sidenote. And maybe it should require a withdrawal promo.

Another thing I noticed that wasn't right... in your pic you have both the lesser and greater withdrawal promos being available. No wonder you complain 'why do we need both'. Hmm... that's an Outrigger so I'll have to look into what's giving access to both there. Seems to me that as a naval unit the Flanking promo line would be more appropriate strengthwise since this is a pretty swift boat. I think it should be a FAST unitcombat and thus NOT have access to the lesser version... but I need to see where the gap is that's allowing both.

Edit: Also my ships get Bamboo Armor promo if that bldg has been built in the city They get built in/come from. Is this intended too?

Good question but I'm going to probably not look too deeply into it until the equipment system is developed. This is one of those current psuedo-equipments and I'm not sure how those are going to be worked out if not working with the equipment option yet. It's probable they'll all stay in the game but be disabled and replaced with something that fits into the bigger picture better when the equipment is on. It should be possible to turn Bamboo Armor off for DOMAIN_SEA units at this point if it doesn't seem to fit for them.

 

[LumenAngel]

I think some naval units can have some "land" Combat Class.
Raft (and some others non-combat boat) as an Explorer dont really shock me. We all use it for exploration and picking then tiny isle.

All pirates boat with Criminals too. In fact, they are criminals

 

[Thunderbrd]

Throwing units can't get City Raider I but can get City Raider V?

Ok, I'm trying to do a little catchup here and I looked into this one. This is a pedia matter. Throwing units CAN get all 5 but they aren't specified as having access by promotion but rather by the promotionline. DH and I haven't worked this out quite yet to have these show properly.

DH... take note of the need to sort this out at some point will ya?


So I took Forward Observers out of the naval because I thought it would be cool to add another benefit of +15% vs Strike Teams (of which there are no naval units) which would be the main bugbear for units put into the forward observer role. Since the promo leads nowhere beyond itself it is appropriate to have a little more strength anyhow and we currently have no other way to get any benefit vs strike teams. Perhaps eventually Forward Explorer could be expanded into a solidly useful promotionline but I won't mess with it further yet. Also made sure to make AIR units unable to access.

Also took out Naval unit access for Bamboo armor. Didn't worry about the air units since it wouldn't be pertinent by then (and the one it might be - the ornithopter) might be rational to have it.

And removed any incidental sea and air unit access to Amphibious (air doesn't need it either!)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

DH... take note of the need to sort this out at some point will ya?

The pedia code does not look at promotion line in units only checks if the unit can get the promotion not promotion line. It may look at all the combat classes that the unit is in and find all promotions that they can get I can't remember.

The problem is that we will need to have the same algorithm in both Python and the dll. This means every time the dll changes the formula then the Python needs to as well.

I need to look at the various pedia pages, probably just unit and promotion to come up what would be nicest.