That's OK, it's a rather large project, it'll probably hit the SVN this weekend.
C2C: Promotions
- Thread starter ls612
- Start date
That's OK, it's a rather large project, it'll probably hit the SVN this weekend.
OK, Equipment overview time. This will explain what I've done in my implementation of Thunderbrd's Equipment abilities, and what I intend to do before V27. Note that the balance part is still subject to change if necessary, but the basic principles I'd like to remain the same.
Melee Weapons
Melee Weapons are available to units of the Mounted, Recon, Hunter, Melee, and Civilian Unitcombats. The standard ones give +1 Strength per level and +1 Pierce (the attribute that counters Armor) every other level. Here are the standard Melee Weapon promotions in the SVN. Note that they aren't active yet and won't be until they are given by buildings and have the TECH_SPECIAL_PROMOTION removed.
Stone Weapons -> Obsidian Weapons -> Copper Weapons -> Bronze Weapons -> Iron Weapons -> Tempered Iron Weapons -> Steel Weapons
This is the 'Standard' line for these promos. I also intend to add special Weapon promotions that will give other distinct benefits.
-Ivory Weapons (Substitute for Copper Weapons)
-Prime Timber Weapons (Substitute for Obsidian Weapons)
-Any other special weapon suggestions that I feel are appropriate.
Early Armor
Early Armor is a bit more complicated. It really has two lines, Melee and Ranged. The Melee Line if available to Melee, Mounted, and in some cases, Recon and Hunter units and consists of
Leather Armor -> Copper Armor -> Bronze Armor -> Iron Armor -> Steel Armor
and gives a bonus of 1 armor at each level. For Ranged Units, ie Archers and Skirmishers, the line is mush simpler
Leather Armor -> Iron Chainmail
giving a bonus of 1 and 3 armor, respectively. As with Melee Weapons, I also intend to add some special Armors
-Bamboo Armor will get reworked into an Equipment (Equivalent to Bronze Armor)
-Rhino Hide Armor (Equivalent to Copper Armor)
-Wooden (Prime Timber) Armor (Equivalent to Leather Armor)
-Any other special armor suggestions that I feel are appropriate.
Ranged Weapons NOTE: This does not include Guns, those will be set up later.
These are NOT yet on the SVN, but will be added today. They too will be inactive until they are assigned to proper techs and buildings. All Ranged Weapons will give +1 Strength and +1 Puncture per level. They will upgrade as such for Archers;
Composite Shortbow -> Composite Greatbow -> Composite Longbow
And for Skirmishers, they will get +1 Puncture and +10% vs Cavalry per level, upgrading as such;
Clovis Points -> Bronze Points -> Iron Points
I'm not quite certain yet what I intend to do for Ranged special weapons, if anything. Any feedback is welcome, especially from Hydro on what techs and buildings to assign these equipments to.
Melee Weapons
Melee Weapons are available to units of the Mounted, Recon, Hunter, Melee, and Civilian Unitcombats. The standard ones give +1 Strength per level and +1 Pierce (the attribute that counters Armor) every other level. Here are the standard Melee Weapon promotions in the SVN. Note that they aren't active yet and won't be until they are given by buildings and have the TECH_SPECIAL_PROMOTION removed.
Stone Weapons -> Obsidian Weapons -> Copper Weapons -> Bronze Weapons -> Iron Weapons -> Tempered Iron Weapons -> Steel Weapons
This is the 'Standard' line for these promos. I also intend to add special Weapon promotions that will give other distinct benefits.
-Ivory Weapons (Substitute for Copper Weapons)
-Prime Timber Weapons (Substitute for Obsidian Weapons)
-Any other special weapon suggestions that I feel are appropriate.
Early Armor
Early Armor is a bit more complicated. It really has two lines, Melee and Ranged. The Melee Line if available to Melee, Mounted, and in some cases, Recon and Hunter units and consists of
Leather Armor -> Copper Armor -> Bronze Armor -> Iron Armor -> Steel Armor
and gives a bonus of 1 armor at each level. For Ranged Units, ie Archers and Skirmishers, the line is mush simpler
Leather Armor -> Iron Chainmail
giving a bonus of 1 and 3 armor, respectively. As with Melee Weapons, I also intend to add some special Armors
-Bamboo Armor will get reworked into an Equipment (Equivalent to Bronze Armor)
-Rhino Hide Armor (Equivalent to Copper Armor)
-Wooden (Prime Timber) Armor (Equivalent to Leather Armor)
-Any other special armor suggestions that I feel are appropriate.
Ranged Weapons NOTE: This does not include Guns, those will be set up later.
These are NOT yet on the SVN, but will be added today. They too will be inactive until they are assigned to proper techs and buildings. All Ranged Weapons will give +1 Strength and +1 Puncture per level. They will upgrade as such for Archers;
Composite Shortbow -> Composite Greatbow -> Composite Longbow
And for Skirmishers, they will get +1 Puncture and +10% vs Cavalry per level, upgrading as such;
Clovis Points -> Bronze Points -> Iron Points
I'm not quite certain yet what I intend to do for Ranged special weapons, if anything. Any feedback is welcome, especially from Hydro on what techs and buildings to assign these equipments to.
what about something like this
about infantry only.
archers more or less is right
light armor
Fur Armor=)Leather Armor=)Chainmail Armor
heavy armor
crude bronze=) perfect bronze Armor ->crude iron armor=)
Iron Armor -> Steel Armor
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
@ls... while I can't review in depth yet, please note that alternatives on a line aren't fully supported yet. Should be available after next weekend though if all goes as planned.
Additionally, 1 Armor that isn't counteracted by 1 Pierce on the opponent equates to 1% less damage. Not much of an impact. At LEAST 10% per the 1's you intended there should utilized if you're going to be going about it this way.
I really do hope that this vast oversimplification of the system is just to help us get a concept for balance and to help us with any debugging for now.
Additionally, 1 Armor that isn't counteracted by 1 Pierce on the opponent equates to 1% less damage. Not much of an impact. At LEAST 10% per the 1's you intended there should utilized if you're going to be going about it this way.
I really do hope that this vast oversimplification of the system is just to help us get a concept for balance and to help us with any debugging for now.
Um, that is really the extent I plan to have for early units. I was unaware of how little 1 armor means, but that's not the end of the world, I can scale those numbers accordingly. I do have other plans for Gunpowder, Modern, and Future units, but those an wait for the moment.
Regarding alternates, the way I have it set up is to have the alternates have a priority 1 less than the think they replace and one more than the normal promotion beneath them. I think that should exhibit the behavior I'm intending, but if it's the other way around please tell me.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Sounds like I may have to split off into a mod mod if you want to keep it that oversimplified. I mean... ugh. Now if you imply to say this is all YOU are going to do until I can focus on developing it out, that's another thing entirely and I can work with that just fine. As I've said before, I never really intended on just handing it over and saying here, do with it whatever you will.
I don't want it to become overcomplicated. We are a more is more mod, but not to the point where all the micro involved with a more complex system makes it not fun. The new strategy involved will be getting the building infrastructure set up to give the units equipment, as opposed to managing what equipment each unit has.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I have a couple questions ...
1. Where's Shark Teeth fall into this? Ivory Weapons? Note the Koa uses a Sharks Tooth Weapons called "Koas".
- Pic1
- Pic2
2. Where does Ironwood fit into this? Ironwood is VERY hard. Is this under the Prime Timber category?
Where do other armors fit in such as ...
- Bone Armor
- Rattan Armor
- Layered Cloth (aka Padded Armor)
- Silk Armor
- Bark Armor (yes there is such thing as bark armor)
- Cord Armor
- Lamellar Armor
Also for shields ...
- Kappa Shell (Tortoise Shell)
I assume the Shell Carver building could trigger this.
No copper, obsidian, bone?
one tribe in the god forsaken whatever place may use human nails except shark teeth . should we add them to the mod?
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
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Also, what about different types of equipment?
Chainmail or Platemail?
Normal Mace or Mace with spikes?
I thought with equipment you could make choices like: Should my units wear heavy armour which protect them very good but reduces movementspeed and evasion?
Just to make it clear, I do want a simple concept and not a VERY detailed one, but I would love to have some strategic choices and not just: Almost use the best type of metall you have.
Chainmail or Platemail?
Normal Mace or Mace with spikes?
I thought with equipment you could make choices like: Should my units wear heavy armour which protect them very good but reduces movementspeed and evasion?
Just to make it clear, I do want a simple concept and not a VERY detailed one, but I would love to have some strategic choices and not just: Almost use the best type of metall you have.
1. The Shark Tooth wielding unit (the Koa?) I think is fine as a UU. It would be closest to Ivory from an equipment perspective, but I felt that we already have it as a Culture Unit and that there was no need to make it less unique.
2. Prime Timber I equate with Redwood, Ironwood, and other very good hardwoods.
3. Some of those seem interesting (I totally missed Lamellar), but I think that the lowest level should be leather, as it offers both one of the lowest tech requirements and good protection for a non-metal. I don't think that having a Giant Tortoise shell for armor would be productive, it would be incredibly unwieldy.
i agree
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
This is how I would do it ...
Early Weapon
- Stone = Composite Tools
- Ivory = Bone Working
- Prime Timber = Wood Working
- Obsidian = Obsidian Weapons
- Copper = Copper Working
- Bronze = Bronze Working
- Iron = Iron Working
- Tempered Iron = Smithing
- Steel = Steel
Early Armor
- Hide = Skinning
- Bone Armor = Bone Working
- Kappa Shell = Bone Working
- Bark = Bark Working
- Padded = Sewing
- Cord = Sewing
- Bamboo = Wood Working
- Rattan = Wood Working
- Leather = Tanning
- Leather Lamellar = Tanning
- Rhino Hide = Tanning
- Copper Scale = Copper Working
- Studded Leather = Copper Working
- Silk = Sericulture
- Bronze Lamellar = Bronze Working
- Bronze Scale = Bronze Working
- Ringed Leather Armor = Bronze Working
- Bronze Plated Mail = Bronze Working
- Iron Lamellar = Iron Working
- Iron Scale = Iron Working
- Iron Plated Mail = Iron Working
- Iron Chainmail = Smithing
- Brigandine = Smithing
- Iron Fullplate = Armor Crafting
- Steel = Steel
Ranged Weapons
- Rocks = N/A
- Darts = Poison Crafting
- Clovis Points = Atl-Atl
- Ivory Points = Harpoon Making
- Composite Shortbow = Archery
- Copper Points = Copper Working
- Bronze Points = Bronze Working
- Iron Points = Iron Working
- Composite Greatbow = Ancient Ballistics
- Composite Longbow = Feudalism
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
We have it as a unique unit so it needs to be accounted for.
@Hydro:
I don't think so many Armor promotions are necessary. I think that there should be two Armor lines, Ranged and Melee, now that I think about it somewhat. Ranged Armor would be Leather (the lowest grade I really want to go) to Chainmail, and Melee would be from Leather to Steel. I like the Weapon techs though.
I don't think so many Armor promotions are necessary. I think that there should be two Armor lines, Ranged and Melee, now that I think about it somewhat. Ranged Armor would be Leather (the lowest grade I really want to go) to Chainmail, and Melee would be from Leather to Steel. I like the Weapon techs though.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Here i will break it down ...
Light Armor
- Bone
- Bark
- Bamboo
- Rattan
- Padded
- Cord
- Leather
- Studded Leather
- Ringed Leather
- Silk
Medium Armor
- Kappa Shell
- Hide
- Rhino Hide
- Copper Scale
- Bronze Scale
- Iron Scale
- Iron Chainmail
- Leather Lamellar
- Bronze Lamellar
- Iron Lamellar
- Brigandine
Heavy Armor
- Bronze Plated Mail
- Iron Plated Mail
- Iron Fullplate
Note that different units would be able to wear different categories. Likewise the resources you have would determine what kind of armor you could make. Many of the armors are pre-metals and thus would be replaced once you got better armors.
Ringed Leather and Studded Leather would be great for archery units since its more advanced armor but still light weight. Kappa Shell for instance is a good medium armor if you don't have access to metals or hide. Silk is a great light weight armor that allows for greater protection if you don't have access to metals yet.
Iron Fullplate would be more or less the best pre-gunpowder armors. It is slow yet protective. Can only be worm by units that can wear Heavy Armor.
i both agree and dissagree with you.
i like too much options but there are some things that are too much
like cord,bark plus the bronze lamellar , iron lamellar,copper lamelar.there should be only one or two the most the same armors
hydromancex
what the hell Kappa Shell is
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Its Turtle/Tortoise Shell Armor.
The reason there are so many is that one may not have access to different resources and thus cannot make the armors. Also there is a huge amount of time before metals come into play where more primitive types of armors come into play.
In short I very much want to push all of these armors since they each fill a different niche.
And I would rather simplify the progression as that way there is less micro while still adding plenty of new and unique content. I think that my Alternate system along with splitting up the line into Melee and Ranged Armors will help considerably.
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